With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
On 9 Jan 2003 15:36:23 -0000, PoorerTaxpayers <unlisted@no-spam>
wrote:
>Not only is the article below extremely relevant, but as well,
>why not include the ADDITIONAL $600 MILLIONS provided by the
>stupid DEADMONTON TAXPAYERS??!!
>Even the Edmonton Auditor-General, Ed Powell had to rebuke the
>clowns on City Council, when he made his report exposing the
>crooked deals, approved by council.!!!
>
>From: "Lab Rat" <labrat@no-spam>
>Newsgroups: ab.politics,calgary.general,can.politics
>Subject: How Albertans Paid For West Edmonton Mall
>Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:36:32 GMT
>
>Memo links Klein to controversial loans Premier called for 'an Alberta
>solution' to West Edmonton Mall troubles
>http://archives.theglobeandmail.com/biographies/storyjang.html
>BRENT JANG
>08/20/98, The Globe and Mail
>All material copyright Thomson Canada Limited or its licensors. All rights
>reserved.
>
>Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, whose government has consistently vowed not to
>meddle in the private sector, was directly involved in provincially owned
>Alberta Treasury Branches' 1994 refinancing of West Edmonton Mall, according
>to an internal memorandum.
>
>In his memo to two cabinet ministers dated Feb. 22, 1994, Mr. Klein reveals
>that he discussed the topic of what to do about the mall's major lender,
>Gentra Inc., at a meeting of a cabinet subcommittee.
>
>Gentra had been monitoring the mall closely because of concern about the
>shopping centre's cash flow.
>
>Mr. Klein wrote that "it would be most helpful" if the mall's owners -- the
>Ghermezian family's holding company at the time, Triple Five Corporation
>Ltd. -- met with ATB for "serious discussions to find a positive resolution
>to this matter."
>
>Gentra, controlled by Toronto's Edper Bronfman group, withdrew as the lead
>lender eight months later, paving the way for ATB to increase to
>$440-million from $75-million the loans and loan guarantees to the mall, on
>Oct. 31, 1994 .
>
>The memo is likely to prove embarrassing for the Klein government,
>especially because Alberta Auditor-General Peter Valentine began an
>investigation earlier this month into circumstances surrounding the mall's
>1994 refinancing.
>
>ATB also has been under fire in recent years for a series of controversial
>loans, such as those to former Edmonton Oilers owner Peter Pocklington.
>
>It remains unknown what role the Progressive Conservative government played
>in the final stages of West Edmonton Mall's refinancing. But the memo
>indicates that Mr. Klein favoured a made-in-Alberta financial arrangement
>for the world's largest shopping centre.
>
>"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on Feb. 14, it was
>clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West Edmonton
>Mall," the Premier said in the memo to two cabinet ministers, Ken Kowalski,
>then the minister of tourism and economic development, and Jim Dinning, then
>the treasurer.
>
>"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the same
>time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized for
>the economic benefit of Alberta," Mr. Klein said in the memo, obtained by
>The Globe and Mail.
>
>In an interview yesterday, Mr. Dinning -- who is now a senior vice-president
>at TransAlta Corp., a Calgary-based electricity company -- would not comment
>on Mr. Klein's memo. But he expressed confidence in the Auditor-General's
>inquiry, saying the "investigation is ongoing and, by God, let's get to the
>bottom of it."
>
>The former treasurer said it would be inappropriate for him to elaborate
>because "events are unfolding."
>
>"Given all of the events that have transpired on this file and all of the
>things that have happened since I left office, I don't think that anything
>I'm going to say is going to add the value you're looking for."
>
>Mr. Klein is on holiday and could not be reached for comment yesterday.
>
>Amid the Auditor-General's probe, the Opposition Liberals have said the
>Conservative government should be held accountable for its role in raising
>ATB's potential exposure to the mall to $440-million.
>
>The Liberals have long suspected that the government used ATB to backstop
>the mall. But in response to an ATB question from then Liberal leader Grant
>Mitchell in the Alberta Legislature on April 30, 1997, Mr. Klein said: "The
>leader of the Opposition knows very, very well that the ATB operates at
>arm's length from the government of Alberta."
>
>ATB operated under the government's Treasury Department until last year,
>when it became a Crown corporation. CIBC Wood Gundy, at the request of
>Alberta Treasurer Stockwell Day, is now studying various options for ATB's
>future, including privatization.
>
>Mr. Klein, who became Premier in late 1992, campaigned in the June, 1993,
>general election on a platform of halting government handouts to the private
>sector. He took a similar stand in his re-election campaign last year.
>
>Mr. Klein, Mr. Kowalski and Mr. Dinning all have stressed that they played
>no role in influencing ATB's lending decisions.
>
>Allan Bray, ATB's superintendent from 1985 until May 31, 1994, said in an
>interview yesterday that in February of 1994, he was examining ways to
>reduce the bank's financial exposure to West Edmonton Mall.
>
>Court documents show that Gentra led a syndicate of lenders that had
>provided $350-million in loans to the shopping centre. ATB was on the hook
>at one point for $85-million and still others lent $40-million, making
>$475-million in total.
>
>Mr. Bray said he thought he had struck a deal with Gentra before he retired
>that would have prevented ATB from lending any more money to the mall.
>
>The mall's 1994 refinancing warrants an independent public inquiry, not just
>the Auditor-General's investigation, he added.
>
>Elmer Leahy, who replaced Mr. Bray and served as ATB's top executive until
>September of 1996, is now being sued by ATB.
>
>Mr. Leahy, whose lawyers allege that ATB is unfairly accusing their client
>of accepting bribes from West Edmonton Mall, has filed a counterclaim. He is
>alleging the bank libelled him.
>
>In his memo, Mr. Klein urged his two cabinet ministers to keep tabs on ATB
>to ensure that the mall's 1994 refinancing process would go smoothly. "As we
>discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury Branch to make
>sure there is 'good faith' and good will in discussions with West Edmonton
>Mall and-or First Boston," Mr. Klein said in his memo to Mr. Kowalski and
>Mr. Dinning. "Our Feb. 14 meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta
>Treasury Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
>
>Two months after Mr. Klein's memo, ATB ended up spinning off $10-million of
>its loans to a group led by First Boston.
>
>Mr. Bray said he didn't want to unload any portion of ATB's loans to First
>Boston, a U.S.-based lender which took part in the side deal before the main
>refinancing.
>
>One day after Mr. Klein's memo, mall co-owner Nader Ghermezian sent a letter
>to the Premier in which Mr. Ghermezian lobbied the government to help knock
>Gentra out of the picture.
>
>The continued presence of Gentra "would not be in the best interest of
>Alberta. . . . Now we see the end is coming, all the doors have been locked
>and you are holding the key," Mr. Ghermezian wrote to Mr. Klein in the
>one-page letter on Triple Five's letterhead and stamped confidential.
>
>Mr. Ghermezian added in his letter that he had informed ATB that West
>Edmonton Mall had been appraised for $679-million.
>
>That letter is contained in a box of documents submitted in a court case
>launched by one of the mall's disgruntled creditors.
>
>Mr. Ghermezian's Feb. 23, 1994 letter is the second to surface publicly. In
>his first letter -- dated Feb. 4, 1994, and leaked to the media one month
>later -- Mr. Ghermezian asked the Premier to help secure loans from ATB and
>shut out Gentra.
>
>THE PREMIER'S MEMO
>
>"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on February 14, it
>was clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
>Edmonton Mall.
>
>"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the same
>time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized for
>the economic benefit of Alberta.
>
>"It would be most helpful if Alberta Treasury Branch and Triple Five
>undertook very serious discussions to find a positive resolution to this
>matter. As we discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury
>Branch to make sure there is "good faith" and good will in discussions with
>West Edmonton Mall and/or First Boston.
>
>"Our February 14th meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta Treasury
>Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
>
>-- Ralph Klein, Feb. 22, 1994
>
>Lawyers, Judges & Politicians serve best - when recycled, as fertliser!!
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
>The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
>is unverified.
>
"Ken McVay" <KMcVay@no-spam> wrote in message
news:j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam
> With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
> MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
>
Aren't you late for your KKK meeting?
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:50:48 GMT, "None" <noway@no-spam> wrote:
>"Ken McVay" <KMcVay@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam
>> With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
>> DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
>> pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
>> to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
>> MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
>>
>Aren't you late for your KKK meeting?
When you haven't the brains to tell time, you're late for damn near
everything!
>
In article <j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam>,
Ken McVay <KMcVay@no-spam> writes:
> With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
> MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
i just would like to point out that the anonymous swine posting the
above selected an email address that is intended to a certain Ken
McVay who is well known for his fight against history falsification in
an extremely negative (and afaik incorrect) light.
you can think about anonymous posters whatever you want, but this
tells a lot about the jewhaters and holocaust deniers
hs
--
ceterum censeo SCO esse delendam
"Ken McVay" <KMcVay@no-spam> wrote in message
news:j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam
> With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
> MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
Nope.
It IS fair to say however, that anti-semites are the scum of the earth,
and should be treated as such.
"CalgaryBill" <CalgaryBill@no-spam> wrote in message
news:WuIKa.294616$3C2.8234995@no-spam
>
> "None" <noway@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:s8IKa.296093$ro6.7391264@no-spam
> > "Ken McVay" <KMcVay@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam
> > > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly
> seniors
> > > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it
> fair
> > > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
> > > MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
> > >
> > Aren't you late for your KKK meeting?
>
> Or was he a member of the upper-class John Birchers?
Actually, his post is secret nazi code. When you use your special
anti-semite decoder ring <you can get from a Kellogs Corn Flake box> to
decipher his post, it contains a secret message.
The message reads " Anti-semites have very small penises and tend to
overcompensate by blaming Jewish people for everything".
What if I'm jewish AND anti-semite?
Fred
"Angry_Mime" <Moonscape@no-spam> a écrit dans le message de
news:ev0La.11993$ZS3.1487358@no-spam
>
> "Ken McVay" <KMcVay@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam
> > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
> > MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
>
>
> Nope.
>
> It IS fair to say however, that anti-semites are the scum of the earth,
> and should be treated as such.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What if I'm jewish AND anti-semite?
You get to kick an Arab out of his house and take his land
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
frédérick johnson <frederick.johnson@no-spam> wrote in message
news:XD1La.13309$WO6.97901@no-spam
> What if I'm jewish AND anti-semite?
>
> Fred
>
> "Angry_Mime" <Moonscape@no-spam> a écrit dans le message de
> news:ev0La.11993$ZS3.1487358@no-spam
> >
> > "Ken McVay" <KMcVay@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam
> > > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> > > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> > > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
> > > MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
> >
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > It IS fair to say however, that anti-semites are the scum of the
earth,
> > and should be treated as such.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> It IS fair to say however, that anti-Semites are the scum of the earth,
> and should be treated as such.
Semites are a people from a region in the middle east
Semites can be Moslems, Jews or Christians
Jews are people with a religion, anyone can convert and be a Jew
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
Angry_Mime <Moonscape@no-spam> wrote in message
news:ev0La.11993$ZS3.1487358@no-spam
>
> "Ken McVay" <KMcVay@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:j2emfvcqlps34bnsc46j00m6cfkdih1vlf@no-spam
> > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS, WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF
> > MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
>
>
> Nope.
>
> It IS fair to say however, that anti-semites are the scum of the earth,
> and should be treated as such.
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Top Poster" <Top@no-spam> wrote in message
news:pQhLa.825$Fy1.42076@no-spam
> What if you are like Mime AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD SEMITE
What if your glue sniffing bag gets a hole in it?
>
> --
> Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
> they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear.
If
> a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
> should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded,
but
> the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the
erroneous
>
> Angry_Mime <Moonscape@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:lK8La.13029$ZS3.1601859@no-spam
> >
> > "frédérick johnson" <frederick.johnson@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:XD1La.13309$WO6.97901@no-spam
> >
> > > What if I'm jewish AND anti-semite?
> >
> > Then you need to be weaving baskets in some small, out-of-the-way
> > nuthouse.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
I agree absolutely with Socrates. Too bad we have so many people who prefer
Wal;ter Cronkite and his kind as their TV thinkers!
I guess it's very easy to let these news hacks, TV and written, do their
thinking.
"Top Poster" <Top@no-spam> wrote in message
news:pQhLa.825$Fy1.42076@no-spam
> What if you are like Mime AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD SEMITE
>
> --
> Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
> they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear.
If
> a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
> should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded,
but
> the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the
erroneous
>
> Angry_Mime <Moonscape@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:lK8La.13029$ZS3.1601859@no-spam
> >
> > "frédérick johnson" <frederick.johnson@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:XD1La.13309$WO6.97901@no-spam
> >
> > > What if I'm jewish AND anti-semite?
> >
> > Then you need to be weaving baskets in some small, out-of-the-way
> > nuthouse.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS,
WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY
TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
On 9 Jan 2003 15:36:23 -0000, PoorerTaxpayers <unlisted@no-spam>
wrote:
>Not only is the article below extremely relevant, but as well,
>why not include the ADDITIONAL $600 MILLIONS provided by the
>stupid DEADMONTON TAXPAYERS??!!
>Even the Edmonton Auditor-General, Ed Powell had to rebuke the
>clowns on City Council, when he made his report exposing the
>crooked deals, approved by council.!!!
>
>From: "Lab Rat" <labrat@no-spam>
>Newsgroups: ab.politics,calgary.general,can.politics
>Subject: How Albertans Paid For West Edmonton Mall
>Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:36:32 GMT
>
>Memo links Klein to controversial loans Premier called for 'an Alberta
>solution' to West Edmonton Mall troubles
>http://archives.theglobeandmail.com/biographies/storyjang.html
>BRENT JANG
>08/20/98, The Globe and Mail
>All material copyright Thomson Canada Limited or its licensors. All rights
>reserved.
>
>Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, whose government has consistently vowed not to
>meddle in the private sector, was directly involved in provincially owned
>Alberta Treasury Branches' 1994 refinancing of West Edmonton Mall, according
>to an internal memorandum.
>
>In his memo to two cabinet ministers dated Feb. 22, 1994, Mr. Klein reveals
>that he discussed the topic of what to do about the mall's major lender,
>Gentra Inc., at a meeting of a cabinet subcommittee.
>
>Gentra had been monitoring the mall closely because of concern about the
>shopping centre's cash flow.
>
>Mr. Klein wrote that "it would be most helpful" if the mall's owners -- the
>Ghermezian family's holding company at the time, Triple Five Corporation
>Ltd. -- met with ATB for "serious discussions to find a positive resolution
>to this matter."
>
>Gentra, controlled by Toronto's Edper Bronfman group, withdrew as the lead
>lender eight months later, paving the way for ATB to increase to
>$440-million from $75-million the loans and loan guarantees to the mall, on
>Oct. 31, 1994 .
>
>The memo is likely to prove embarrassing for the Klein government,
>especially because Alberta Auditor-General Peter Valentine began an
>investigation earlier this month into circumstances surrounding the mall's
>1994 refinancing.
>
>ATB also has been under fire in recent years for a series of controversial
>loans, such as those to former Edmonton Oilers owner Peter Pocklington.
>
>It remains unknown what role the Progressive Conservative government played
>in the final stages of West Edmonton Mall's refinancing. But the memo
>indicates that Mr. Klein favoured a made-in-Alberta financial arrangement
>for the world's largest shopping centre.
>
>"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on Feb. 14, it was
>clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West Edmonton
>Mall," the Premier said in the memo to two cabinet ministers, Ken Kowalski,
>then the minister of tourism and economic development, and Jim Dinning, then
>the treasurer.
>
>"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the same
>time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized for
>the economic benefit of Alberta," Mr. Klein said in the memo, obtained by
>The Globe and Mail.
>
>In an interview yesterday, Mr. Dinning -- who is now a senior vice-president
>at TransAlta Corp., a Calgary-based electricity company -- would not comment
>on Mr. Klein's memo. But he expressed confidence in the Auditor-General's
>inquiry, saying the "investigation is ongoing and, by God, let's get to the
>bottom of it."
>
>The former treasurer said it would be inappropriate for him to elaborate
>because "events are unfolding."
>
>"Given all of the events that have transpired on this file and all of the
>things that have happened since I left office, I don't think that anything
>I'm going to say is going to add the value you're looking for."
>
>Mr. Klein is on holiday and could not be reached for comment yesterday.
>
>Amid the Auditor-General's probe, the Opposition Liberals have said the
>Conservative government should be held accountable for its role in raising
>ATB's potential exposure to the mall to $440-million.
>
>The Liberals have long suspected that the government used ATB to backstop
>the mall. But in response to an ATB question from then Liberal leader Grant
>Mitchell in the Alberta Legislature on April 30, 1997, Mr. Klein said: "The
>leader of the Opposition knows very, very well that the ATB operates at
>arm's length from the government of Alberta."
>
>ATB operated under the government's Treasury Department until last year,
>when it became a Crown corporation. CIBC Wood Gundy, at the request of
>Alberta Treasurer Stockwell Day, is now studying various options for ATB's
>future, including privatization.
>
>Mr. Klein, who became Premier in late 1992, campaigned in the June, 1993,
>general election on a platform of halting government handouts to the private
>sector. He took a similar stand in his re-election campaign last year.
>
>Mr. Klein, Mr. Kowalski and Mr. Dinning all have stressed that they played
>no role in influencing ATB's lending decisions.
>
>Allan Bray, ATB's superintendent from 1985 until May 31, 1994, said in an
>interview yesterday that in February of 1994, he was examining ways to
>reduce the bank's financial exposure to West Edmonton Mall.
>
>Court documents show that Gentra led a syndicate of lenders that had
>provided $350-million in loans to the shopping centre. ATB was on the hook
>at one point for $85-million and still others lent $40-million, making
>$475-million in total.
>
>Mr. Bray said he thought he had struck a deal with Gentra before he retired
>that would have prevented ATB from lending any more money to the mall.
>
>The mall's 1994 refinancing warrants an independent public inquiry, not just
>the Auditor-General's investigation, he added.
>
>Elmer Leahy, who replaced Mr. Bray and served as ATB's top executive until
>September of 1996, is now being sued by ATB.
>
>Mr. Leahy, whose lawyers allege that ATB is unfairly accusing their client
>of accepting bribes from West Edmonton Mall, has filed a counterclaim. He is
>alleging the bank libelled him.
>
>In his memo, Mr. Klein urged his two cabinet ministers to keep tabs on ATB
>to ensure that the mall's 1994 refinancing process would go smoothly. "As we
>discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury Branch to make
>sure there is 'good faith' and good will in discussions with West Edmonton
>Mall and-or First Boston," Mr. Klein said in his memo to Mr. Kowalski and
>Mr. Dinning. "Our Feb. 14 meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta
>Treasury Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
>
>Two months after Mr. Klein's memo, ATB ended up spinning off $10-million of
>its loans to a group led by First Boston.
>
>Mr. Bray said he didn't want to unload any portion of ATB's loans to First
>Boston, a U.S.-based lender which took part in the side deal before the main
>refinancing.
>
>One day after Mr. Klein's memo, mall co-owner Nader Ghermezian sent a letter
>to the Premier in which Mr. Ghermezian lobbied the government to help knock
>Gentra out of the picture.
>
>The continued presence of Gentra "would not be in the best interest of
>Alberta. . . . Now we see the end is coming, all the doors have been locked
>and you are holding the key," Mr. Ghermezian wrote to Mr. Klein in the
>one-page letter on Triple Five's letterhead and stamped confidential.
>
>Mr. Ghermezian added in his letter that he had informed ATB that West
>Edmonton Mall had been appraised for $679-million.
>
>That letter is contained in a box of documents submitted in a court case
>launched by one of the mall's disgruntled creditors.
>
>Mr. Ghermezian's Feb. 23, 1994 letter is the second to surface publicly. In
>his first letter -- dated Feb. 4, 1994, and leaked to the media one month
>later -- Mr. Ghermezian asked the Premier to help secure loans from ATB and
>shut out Gentra.
>
>THE PREMIER'S MEMO
>
>"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on February 14, it
>was clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
>Edmonton Mall.
>
>"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the same
>time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized for
>the economic benefit of Alberta.
>
>"It would be most helpful if Alberta Treasury Branch and Triple Five
>undertook very serious discussions to find a positive resolution to this
>matter. As we discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury
>Branch to make sure there is "good faith" and good will in discussions with
>West Edmonton Mall and/or First Boston.
>
>"Our February 14th meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta Treasury
>Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
>
>-- Ralph Klein, Feb. 22, 1994
>
>Lawyers, Judges & Politicians serve best - when recycled, as fertliser!!
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
>The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
>is unverified.
>
I wonder what sort of gifts and gratuities he got for that stunt?...The Coos
gave him furniture and wine and dinners and he apparently didn't do anything
for them...His wife got free stock when Ralph spoke for some company in Hong
Kong but of course his wife never told him about that..That' s why Ralph
went to get his communcations diploma...so he could communicate with Colleen
and keep all the "freebies" in a database.....Forgiving $400 Mill must
qualify for some major "gift" or why else would fat Ralph do it?....In
Ralph's World average people pay the freight for his cronies..What else is
new?...It's the same with drooling Jean Chretien.
"Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS,
> WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY
> TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
>
>
> On 9 Jan 2003 15:36:23 -0000, PoorerTaxpayers <unlisted@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> >Not only is the article below extremely relevant, but as well,
> >why not include the ADDITIONAL $600 MILLIONS provided by the
> >stupid DEADMONTON TAXPAYERS??!!
>
> >Even the Edmonton Auditor-General, Ed Powell had to rebuke the
> >clowns on City Council, when he made his report exposing the
> >crooked deals, approved by council.!!!
> >
> >From: "Lab Rat" <labrat@no-spam>
> >Newsgroups: ab.politics,calgary.general,can.politics
> >Subject: How Albertans Paid For West Edmonton Mall
> >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:36:32 GMT
> >
> >Memo links Klein to controversial loans Premier called for 'an Alberta
> >solution' to West Edmonton Mall troubles
> >http://archives.theglobeandmail.com/biographies/storyjang.html
> >BRENT JANG
> >08/20/98, The Globe and Mail
> >All material copyright Thomson Canada Limited or its licensors. All
rights
> >reserved.
> >
> >Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, whose government has consistently vowed not
to
> >meddle in the private sector, was directly involved in provincially owned
> >Alberta Treasury Branches' 1994 refinancing of West Edmonton Mall,
according
> >to an internal memorandum.
> >
> >In his memo to two cabinet ministers dated Feb. 22, 1994, Mr. Klein
reveals
> >that he discussed the topic of what to do about the mall's major lender,
> >Gentra Inc., at a meeting of a cabinet subcommittee.
> >
> >Gentra had been monitoring the mall closely because of concern about the
> >shopping centre's cash flow.
> >
> >Mr. Klein wrote that "it would be most helpful" if the mall's owners --
the
> >Ghermezian family's holding company at the time, Triple Five Corporation
> >Ltd. -- met with ATB for "serious discussions to find a positive
resolution
> >to this matter."
> >
> >Gentra, controlled by Toronto's Edper Bronfman group, withdrew as the
lead
> >lender eight months later, paving the way for ATB to increase to
> >$440-million from $75-million the loans and loan guarantees to the mall,
on
> >Oct. 31, 1994 .
> >
> >The memo is likely to prove embarrassing for the Klein government,
> >especially because Alberta Auditor-General Peter Valentine began an
> >investigation earlier this month into circumstances surrounding the
mall's
> >1994 refinancing.
> >
> >ATB also has been under fire in recent years for a series of
controversial
> >loans, such as those to former Edmonton Oilers owner Peter Pocklington.
> >
> >It remains unknown what role the Progressive Conservative government
played
> >in the final stages of West Edmonton Mall's refinancing. But the memo
> >indicates that Mr. Klein favoured a made-in-Alberta financial arrangement
> >for the world's largest shopping centre.
> >
> >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on Feb. 14, it
was
> >clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
Edmonton
> >Mall," the Premier said in the memo to two cabinet ministers, Ken
Kowalski,
> >then the minister of tourism and economic development, and Jim Dinning,
then
> >the treasurer.
> >
> >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
same
> >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
for
> >the economic benefit of Alberta," Mr. Klein said in the memo, obtained by
> >The Globe and Mail.
> >
> >In an interview yesterday, Mr. Dinning -- who is now a senior
vice-president
> >at TransAlta Corp., a Calgary-based electricity company -- would not
comment
> >on Mr. Klein's memo. But he expressed confidence in the Auditor-General's
> >inquiry, saying the "investigation is ongoing and, by God, let's get to
the
> >bottom of it."
> >
> >The former treasurer said it would be inappropriate for him to elaborate
> >because "events are unfolding."
> >
> >"Given all of the events that have transpired on this file and all of the
> >things that have happened since I left office, I don't think that
anything
> >I'm going to say is going to add the value you're looking for."
> >
> >Mr. Klein is on holiday and could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> >
> >Amid the Auditor-General's probe, the Opposition Liberals have said the
> >Conservative government should be held accountable for its role in
raising
> >ATB's potential exposure to the mall to $440-million.
> >
> >The Liberals have long suspected that the government used ATB to backstop
> >the mall. But in response to an ATB question from then Liberal leader
Grant
> >Mitchell in the Alberta Legislature on April 30, 1997, Mr. Klein said:
"The
> >leader of the Opposition knows very, very well that the ATB operates at
> >arm's length from the government of Alberta."
> >
> >ATB operated under the government's Treasury Department until last year,
> >when it became a Crown corporation. CIBC Wood Gundy, at the request of
> >Alberta Treasurer Stockwell Day, is now studying various options for
ATB's
> >future, including privatization.
> >
> >Mr. Klein, who became Premier in late 1992, campaigned in the June, 1993,
> >general election on a platform of halting government handouts to the
private
> >sector. He took a similar stand in his re-election campaign last year.
> >
> >Mr. Klein, Mr. Kowalski and Mr. Dinning all have stressed that they
played
> >no role in influencing ATB's lending decisions.
> >
> >Allan Bray, ATB's superintendent from 1985 until May 31, 1994, said in an
> >interview yesterday that in February of 1994, he was examining ways to
> >reduce the bank's financial exposure to West Edmonton Mall.
> >
> >Court documents show that Gentra led a syndicate of lenders that had
> >provided $350-million in loans to the shopping centre. ATB was on the
hook
> >at one point for $85-million and still others lent $40-million, making
> >$475-million in total.
> >
> >Mr. Bray said he thought he had struck a deal with Gentra before he
retired
> >that would have prevented ATB from lending any more money to the mall.
> >
> >The mall's 1994 refinancing warrants an independent public inquiry, not
just
> >the Auditor-General's investigation, he added.
> >
> >Elmer Leahy, who replaced Mr. Bray and served as ATB's top executive
until
> >September of 1996, is now being sued by ATB.
> >
> >Mr. Leahy, whose lawyers allege that ATB is unfairly accusing their
client
> >of accepting bribes from West Edmonton Mall, has filed a counterclaim. He
is
> >alleging the bank libelled him.
> >
> >In his memo, Mr. Klein urged his two cabinet ministers to keep tabs on
ATB
> >to ensure that the mall's 1994 refinancing process would go smoothly. "As
we
> >discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury Branch to
make
> >sure there is 'good faith' and good will in discussions with West
Edmonton
> >Mall and-or First Boston," Mr. Klein said in his memo to Mr. Kowalski and
> >Mr. Dinning. "Our Feb. 14 meeting agreed that no agreement between
Alberta
> >Treasury Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> >
> >Two months after Mr. Klein's memo, ATB ended up spinning off $10-million
of
> >its loans to a group led by First Boston.
> >
> >Mr. Bray said he didn't want to unload any portion of ATB's loans to
First
> >Boston, a U.S.-based lender which took part in the side deal before the
main
> >refinancing.
> >
> >One day after Mr. Klein's memo, mall co-owner Nader Ghermezian sent a
letter
> >to the Premier in which Mr. Ghermezian lobbied the government to help
knock
> >Gentra out of the picture.
> >
> >The continued presence of Gentra "would not be in the best interest of
> >Alberta. . . . Now we see the end is coming, all the doors have been
locked
> >and you are holding the key," Mr. Ghermezian wrote to Mr. Klein in the
> >one-page letter on Triple Five's letterhead and stamped confidential.
> >
> >Mr. Ghermezian added in his letter that he had informed ATB that West
> >Edmonton Mall had been appraised for $679-million.
> >
> >That letter is contained in a box of documents submitted in a court case
> >launched by one of the mall's disgruntled creditors.
> >
> >Mr. Ghermezian's Feb. 23, 1994 letter is the second to surface publicly.
In
> >his first letter -- dated Feb. 4, 1994, and leaked to the media one month
> >later -- Mr. Ghermezian asked the Premier to help secure loans from ATB
and
> >shut out Gentra.
> >
> >THE PREMIER'S MEMO
> >
> >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on February 14,
it
> >was clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
> >Edmonton Mall.
> >
> >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
same
> >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
for
> >the economic benefit of Alberta.
> >
> >"It would be most helpful if Alberta Treasury Branch and Triple Five
> >undertook very serious discussions to find a positive resolution to this
> >matter. As we discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta
Treasury
> >Branch to make sure there is "good faith" and good will in discussions
with
> >West Edmonton Mall and/or First Boston.
> >
> >"Our February 14th meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta
Treasury
> >Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> >
> >-- Ralph Klein, Feb. 22, 1994
> >
> >Lawyers, Judges & Politicians serve best - when recycled, as fertliser!!
> >
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
> >The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
> >is unverified.
> >
>
The scapegoating of groups and individuals will not lead
to any solutions. There are deep systemic causes which
must be addressed.
Who among us has not taken freebies, when they were
offered through legal channels or how many have not ever
taken freebies through other means.
The root cause is a world that still runs on the rule of ruthlessness,
whereby the most powerful leaders would be toast (as in Gorbachev),
if they let down their guard for a minute.
The debt/interest money system is a primary symptom of this,
and will have to disappear, as nations and their peoples feel
more secure within an evolving system of world law.
I am actively opposing Ralph Klein provincially, and have
opposed Jean Chretien federally, but it will be meet the new
boss, same as the old boss, unless knee-jerk racism and character
assassination are seen as symptoms, and not causes of the serious
political problems of the day.
Regards
Dan Parker
www.globaljusticemovement.org
"Geraldo" <I'mNotGay@no-spam> wrote in message
news:QQ48b.130408$la.2863086@no-spam
> I wonder what sort of gifts and gratuities he got for that stunt?...The
Coos
> gave him furniture and wine and dinners and he apparently didn't do
anything
> for them...His wife got free stock when Ralph spoke for some company in
Hong
> Kong but of course his wife never told him about that..That' s why Ralph
> went to get his communcations diploma...so he could communicate with
Colleen
> and keep all the "freebies" in a database.....Forgiving $400 Mill must
> qualify for some major "gift" or why else would fat Ralph do it?....In
> Ralph's World average people pay the freight for his cronies..What else is
> new?...It's the same with drooling Jean Chretien.
>
>
> "Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS,
> > WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY
> > TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
> >
> >
> > On 9 Jan 2003 15:36:23 -0000, PoorerTaxpayers <unlisted@no-spam>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Not only is the article below extremely relevant, but as well,
> > >why not include the ADDITIONAL $600 MILLIONS provided by the
> > >stupid DEADMONTON TAXPAYERS??!!
> >
> > >Even the Edmonton Auditor-General, Ed Powell had to rebuke the
> > >clowns on City Council, when he made his report exposing the
> > >crooked deals, approved by council.!!!
> > >
> > >From: "Lab Rat" <labrat@no-spam>
> > >Newsgroups: ab.politics,calgary.general,can.politics
> > >Subject: How Albertans Paid For West Edmonton Mall
> > >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:36:32 GMT
> > >
> > >Memo links Klein to controversial loans Premier called for 'an Alberta
> > >solution' to West Edmonton Mall troubles
> > >http://archives.theglobeandmail.com/biographies/storyjang.html
> > >BRENT JANG
> > >08/20/98, The Globe and Mail
> > >All material copyright Thomson Canada Limited or its licensors. All
> rights
> > >reserved.
> > >
> > >Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, whose government has consistently vowed
not
> to
> > >meddle in the private sector, was directly involved in provincially
owned
> > >Alberta Treasury Branches' 1994 refinancing of West Edmonton Mall,
> according
> > >to an internal memorandum.
> > >
> > >In his memo to two cabinet ministers dated Feb. 22, 1994, Mr. Klein
> reveals
> > >that he discussed the topic of what to do about the mall's major
lender,
> > >Gentra Inc., at a meeting of a cabinet subcommittee.
> > >
> > >Gentra had been monitoring the mall closely because of concern about
the
> > >shopping centre's cash flow.
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein wrote that "it would be most helpful" if the mall's owners --
> the
> > >Ghermezian family's holding company at the time, Triple Five
Corporation
> > >Ltd. -- met with ATB for "serious discussions to find a positive
> resolution
> > >to this matter."
> > >
> > >Gentra, controlled by Toronto's Edper Bronfman group, withdrew as the
> lead
> > >lender eight months later, paving the way for ATB to increase to
> > >$440-million from $75-million the loans and loan guarantees to the
mall,
> on
> > >Oct. 31, 1994 .
> > >
> > >The memo is likely to prove embarrassing for the Klein government,
> > >especially because Alberta Auditor-General Peter Valentine began an
> > >investigation earlier this month into circumstances surrounding the
> mall's
> > >1994 refinancing.
> > >
> > >ATB also has been under fire in recent years for a series of
> controversial
> > >loans, such as those to former Edmonton Oilers owner Peter Pocklington.
> > >
> > >It remains unknown what role the Progressive Conservative government
> played
> > >in the final stages of West Edmonton Mall's refinancing. But the memo
> > >indicates that Mr. Klein favoured a made-in-Alberta financial
arrangement
> > >for the world's largest shopping centre.
> > >
> > >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on Feb. 14, it
> was
> > >clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
> Edmonton
> > >Mall," the Premier said in the memo to two cabinet ministers, Ken
> Kowalski,
> > >then the minister of tourism and economic development, and Jim Dinning,
> then
> > >the treasurer.
> > >
> > >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
> same
> > >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
> for
> > >the economic benefit of Alberta," Mr. Klein said in the memo, obtained
by
> > >The Globe and Mail.
> > >
> > >In an interview yesterday, Mr. Dinning -- who is now a senior
> vice-president
> > >at TransAlta Corp., a Calgary-based electricity company -- would not
> comment
> > >on Mr. Klein's memo. But he expressed confidence in the
Auditor-General's
> > >inquiry, saying the "investigation is ongoing and, by God, let's get to
> the
> > >bottom of it."
> > >
> > >The former treasurer said it would be inappropriate for him to
elaborate
> > >because "events are unfolding."
> > >
> > >"Given all of the events that have transpired on this file and all of
the
> > >things that have happened since I left office, I don't think that
> anything
> > >I'm going to say is going to add the value you're looking for."
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein is on holiday and could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> > >
> > >Amid the Auditor-General's probe, the Opposition Liberals have said the
> > >Conservative government should be held accountable for its role in
> raising
> > >ATB's potential exposure to the mall to $440-million.
> > >
> > >The Liberals have long suspected that the government used ATB to
backstop
> > >the mall. But in response to an ATB question from then Liberal leader
> Grant
> > >Mitchell in the Alberta Legislature on April 30, 1997, Mr. Klein said:
> "The
> > >leader of the Opposition knows very, very well that the ATB operates at
> > >arm's length from the government of Alberta."
> > >
> > >ATB operated under the government's Treasury Department until last
year,
> > >when it became a Crown corporation. CIBC Wood Gundy, at the request of
> > >Alberta Treasurer Stockwell Day, is now studying various options for
> ATB's
> > >future, including privatization.
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein, who became Premier in late 1992, campaigned in the June,
1993,
> > >general election on a platform of halting government handouts to the
> private
> > >sector. He took a similar stand in his re-election campaign last year.
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein, Mr. Kowalski and Mr. Dinning all have stressed that they
> played
> > >no role in influencing ATB's lending decisions.
> > >
> > >Allan Bray, ATB's superintendent from 1985 until May 31, 1994, said in
an
> > >interview yesterday that in February of 1994, he was examining ways to
> > >reduce the bank's financial exposure to West Edmonton Mall.
> > >
> > >Court documents show that Gentra led a syndicate of lenders that had
> > >provided $350-million in loans to the shopping centre. ATB was on the
> hook
> > >at one point for $85-million and still others lent $40-million, making
> > >$475-million in total.
> > >
> > >Mr. Bray said he thought he had struck a deal with Gentra before he
> retired
> > >that would have prevented ATB from lending any more money to the mall.
> > >
> > >The mall's 1994 refinancing warrants an independent public inquiry, not
> just
> > >the Auditor-General's investigation, he added.
> > >
> > >Elmer Leahy, who replaced Mr. Bray and served as ATB's top executive
> until
> > >September of 1996, is now being sued by ATB.
> > >
> > >Mr. Leahy, whose lawyers allege that ATB is unfairly accusing their
> client
> > >of accepting bribes from West Edmonton Mall, has filed a counterclaim.
He
> is
> > >alleging the bank libelled him.
> > >
> > >In his memo, Mr. Klein urged his two cabinet ministers to keep tabs on
> ATB
> > >to ensure that the mall's 1994 refinancing process would go smoothly.
"As
> we
> > >discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury Branch to
> make
> > >sure there is 'good faith' and good will in discussions with West
> Edmonton
> > >Mall and-or First Boston," Mr. Klein said in his memo to Mr. Kowalski
and
> > >Mr. Dinning. "Our Feb. 14 meeting agreed that no agreement between
> Alberta
> > >Treasury Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> > >
> > >Two months after Mr. Klein's memo, ATB ended up spinning off
$10-million
> of
> > >its loans to a group led by First Boston.
> > >
> > >Mr. Bray said he didn't want to unload any portion of ATB's loans to
> First
> > >Boston, a U.S.-based lender which took part in the side deal before the
> main
> > >refinancing.
> > >
> > >One day after Mr. Klein's memo, mall co-owner Nader Ghermezian sent a
> letter
> > >to the Premier in which Mr. Ghermezian lobbied the government to help
> knock
> > >Gentra out of the picture.
> > >
> > >The continued presence of Gentra "would not be in the best interest of
> > >Alberta. . . . Now we see the end is coming, all the doors have been
> locked
> > >and you are holding the key," Mr. Ghermezian wrote to Mr. Klein in the
> > >one-page letter on Triple Five's letterhead and stamped confidential.
> > >
> > >Mr. Ghermezian added in his letter that he had informed ATB that West
> > >Edmonton Mall had been appraised for $679-million.
> > >
> > >That letter is contained in a box of documents submitted in a court
case
> > >launched by one of the mall's disgruntled creditors.
> > >
> > >Mr. Ghermezian's Feb. 23, 1994 letter is the second to surface
publicly.
> In
> > >his first letter -- dated Feb. 4, 1994, and leaked to the media one
month
> > >later -- Mr. Ghermezian asked the Premier to help secure loans from ATB
> and
> > >shut out Gentra.
> > >
> > >THE PREMIER'S MEMO
> > >
> > >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on February 14,
> it
> > >was clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
> > >Edmonton Mall.
> > >
> > >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
> same
> > >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
> for
> > >the economic benefit of Alberta.
> > >
> > >"It would be most helpful if Alberta Treasury Branch and Triple Five
> > >undertook very serious discussions to find a positive resolution to
this
> > >matter. As we discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta
> Treasury
> > >Branch to make sure there is "good faith" and good will in discussions
> with
> > >West Edmonton Mall and/or First Boston.
> > >
> > >"Our February 14th meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta
> Treasury
> > >Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> > >
> > >-- Ralph Klein, Feb. 22, 1994
> > >
> > >Lawyers, Judges & Politicians serve best - when recycled, as
fertliser!!
> > >
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
> > >The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
> > >is unverified.
> > >
> >
>
>
Your anti-semetic rhetoric immediately renders your garbage post to the
"noncredibleshithead" file.
Have a nice day
"Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS,
> WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY
> TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
>
>
> On 9 Jan 2003 15:36:23 -0000, PoorerTaxpayers <unlisted@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> >Not only is the article below extremely relevant, but as well,
> >why not include the ADDITIONAL $600 MILLIONS provided by the
> >stupid DEADMONTON TAXPAYERS??!!
>
> >Even the Edmonton Auditor-General, Ed Powell had to rebuke the
> >clowns on City Council, when he made his report exposing the
> >crooked deals, approved by council.!!!
> >
> >From: "Lab Rat" <labrat@no-spam>
> >Newsgroups: ab.politics,calgary.general,can.politics
> >Subject: How Albertans Paid For West Edmonton Mall
> >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:36:32 GMT
> >
> >Memo links Klein to controversial loans Premier called for 'an Alberta
> >solution' to West Edmonton Mall troubles
> >http://archives.theglobeandmail.com/biographies/storyjang.html
> >BRENT JANG
> >08/20/98, The Globe and Mail
> >All material copyright Thomson Canada Limited or its licensors. All
rights
> >reserved.
> >
> >Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, whose government has consistently vowed not
to
> >meddle in the private sector, was directly involved in provincially owned
> >Alberta Treasury Branches' 1994 refinancing of West Edmonton Mall,
according
> >to an internal memorandum.
> >
> >In his memo to two cabinet ministers dated Feb. 22, 1994, Mr. Klein
reveals
> >that he discussed the topic of what to do about the mall's major lender,
> >Gentra Inc., at a meeting of a cabinet subcommittee.
> >
> >Gentra had been monitoring the mall closely because of concern about the
> >shopping centre's cash flow.
> >
> >Mr. Klein wrote that "it would be most helpful" if the mall's owners --
the
> >Ghermezian family's holding company at the time, Triple Five Corporation
> >Ltd. -- met with ATB for "serious discussions to find a positive
resolution
> >to this matter."
> >
> >Gentra, controlled by Toronto's Edper Bronfman group, withdrew as the
lead
> >lender eight months later, paving the way for ATB to increase to
> >$440-million from $75-million the loans and loan guarantees to the mall,
on
> >Oct. 31, 1994 .
> >
> >The memo is likely to prove embarrassing for the Klein government,
> >especially because Alberta Auditor-General Peter Valentine began an
> >investigation earlier this month into circumstances surrounding the
mall's
> >1994 refinancing.
> >
> >ATB also has been under fire in recent years for a series of
controversial
> >loans, such as those to former Edmonton Oilers owner Peter Pocklington.
> >
> >It remains unknown what role the Progressive Conservative government
played
> >in the final stages of West Edmonton Mall's refinancing. But the memo
> >indicates that Mr. Klein favoured a made-in-Alberta financial arrangement
> >for the world's largest shopping centre.
> >
> >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on Feb. 14, it
was
> >clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
Edmonton
> >Mall," the Premier said in the memo to two cabinet ministers, Ken
Kowalski,
> >then the minister of tourism and economic development, and Jim Dinning,
then
> >the treasurer.
> >
> >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
same
> >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
for
> >the economic benefit of Alberta," Mr. Klein said in the memo, obtained by
> >The Globe and Mail.
> >
> >In an interview yesterday, Mr. Dinning -- who is now a senior
vice-president
> >at TransAlta Corp., a Calgary-based electricity company -- would not
comment
> >on Mr. Klein's memo. But he expressed confidence in the Auditor-General's
> >inquiry, saying the "investigation is ongoing and, by God, let's get to
the
> >bottom of it."
> >
> >The former treasurer said it would be inappropriate for him to elaborate
> >because "events are unfolding."
> >
> >"Given all of the events that have transpired on this file and all of the
> >things that have happened since I left office, I don't think that
anything
> >I'm going to say is going to add the value you're looking for."
> >
> >Mr. Klein is on holiday and could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> >
> >Amid the Auditor-General's probe, the Opposition Liberals have said the
> >Conservative government should be held accountable for its role in
raising
> >ATB's potential exposure to the mall to $440-million.
> >
> >The Liberals have long suspected that the government used ATB to backstop
> >the mall. But in response to an ATB question from then Liberal leader
Grant
> >Mitchell in the Alberta Legislature on April 30, 1997, Mr. Klein said:
"The
> >leader of the Opposition knows very, very well that the ATB operates at
> >arm's length from the government of Alberta."
> >
> >ATB operated under the government's Treasury Department until last year,
> >when it became a Crown corporation. CIBC Wood Gundy, at the request of
> >Alberta Treasurer Stockwell Day, is now studying various options for
ATB's
> >future, including privatization.
> >
> >Mr. Klein, who became Premier in late 1992, campaigned in the June, 1993,
> >general election on a platform of halting government handouts to the
private
> >sector. He took a similar stand in his re-election campaign last year.
> >
> >Mr. Klein, Mr. Kowalski and Mr. Dinning all have stressed that they
played
> >no role in influencing ATB's lending decisions.
> >
> >Allan Bray, ATB's superintendent from 1985 until May 31, 1994, said in an
> >interview yesterday that in February of 1994, he was examining ways to
> >reduce the bank's financial exposure to West Edmonton Mall.
> >
> >Court documents show that Gentra led a syndicate of lenders that had
> >provided $350-million in loans to the shopping centre. ATB was on the
hook
> >at one point for $85-million and still others lent $40-million, making
> >$475-million in total.
> >
> >Mr. Bray said he thought he had struck a deal with Gentra before he
retired
> >that would have prevented ATB from lending any more money to the mall.
> >
> >The mall's 1994 refinancing warrants an independent public inquiry, not
just
> >the Auditor-General's investigation, he added.
> >
> >Elmer Leahy, who replaced Mr. Bray and served as ATB's top executive
until
> >September of 1996, is now being sued by ATB.
> >
> >Mr. Leahy, whose lawyers allege that ATB is unfairly accusing their
client
> >of accepting bribes from West Edmonton Mall, has filed a counterclaim. He
is
> >alleging the bank libelled him.
> >
> >In his memo, Mr. Klein urged his two cabinet ministers to keep tabs on
ATB
> >to ensure that the mall's 1994 refinancing process would go smoothly. "As
we
> >discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury Branch to
make
> >sure there is 'good faith' and good will in discussions with West
Edmonton
> >Mall and-or First Boston," Mr. Klein said in his memo to Mr. Kowalski and
> >Mr. Dinning. "Our Feb. 14 meeting agreed that no agreement between
Alberta
> >Treasury Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> >
> >Two months after Mr. Klein's memo, ATB ended up spinning off $10-million
of
> >its loans to a group led by First Boston.
> >
> >Mr. Bray said he didn't want to unload any portion of ATB's loans to
First
> >Boston, a U.S.-based lender which took part in the side deal before the
main
> >refinancing.
> >
> >One day after Mr. Klein's memo, mall co-owner Nader Ghermezian sent a
letter
> >to the Premier in which Mr. Ghermezian lobbied the government to help
knock
> >Gentra out of the picture.
> >
> >The continued presence of Gentra "would not be in the best interest of
> >Alberta. . . . Now we see the end is coming, all the doors have been
locked
> >and you are holding the key," Mr. Ghermezian wrote to Mr. Klein in the
> >one-page letter on Triple Five's letterhead and stamped confidential.
> >
> >Mr. Ghermezian added in his letter that he had informed ATB that West
> >Edmonton Mall had been appraised for $679-million.
> >
> >That letter is contained in a box of documents submitted in a court case
> >launched by one of the mall's disgruntled creditors.
> >
> >Mr. Ghermezian's Feb. 23, 1994 letter is the second to surface publicly.
In
> >his first letter -- dated Feb. 4, 1994, and leaked to the media one month
> >later -- Mr. Ghermezian asked the Premier to help secure loans from ATB
and
> >shut out Gentra.
> >
> >THE PREMIER'S MEMO
> >
> >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on February 14,
it
> >was clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
> >Edmonton Mall.
> >
> >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
same
> >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
for
> >the economic benefit of Alberta.
> >
> >"It would be most helpful if Alberta Treasury Branch and Triple Five
> >undertook very serious discussions to find a positive resolution to this
> >matter. As we discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta
Treasury
> >Branch to make sure there is "good faith" and good will in discussions
with
> >West Edmonton Mall and/or First Boston.
> >
> >"Our February 14th meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta
Treasury
> >Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> >
> >-- Ralph Klein, Feb. 22, 1994
> >
> >Lawyers, Judges & Politicians serve best - when recycled, as fertliser!!
> >
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
> >The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
> >is unverified.
> >
>
You mean he does not like Arabs
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
Phil Mattaleven <phil11@no-spam> wrote in message
news:nw88b.16865$J6.6141@no-spam
> Your anti-semetic rhetoric immediately renders your garbage post to the
> "noncredibleshithead" file.
> Have a nice day
>
> "Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS,
> > WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY
> > TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
> >
> >
> > On 9 Jan 2003 15:36:23 -0000, PoorerTaxpayers <unlisted@no-spam>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Not only is the article below extremely relevant, but as well,
> > >why not include the ADDITIONAL $600 MILLIONS provided by the
> > >stupid DEADMONTON TAXPAYERS??!!
> >
> > >Even the Edmonton Auditor-General, Ed Powell had to rebuke the
> > >clowns on City Council, when he made his report exposing the
> > >crooked deals, approved by council.!!!
> > >
> > >From: "Lab Rat" <labrat@no-spam>
> > >Newsgroups: ab.politics,calgary.general,can.politics
> > >Subject: How Albertans Paid For West Edmonton Mall
> > >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:36:32 GMT
> > >
> > >Memo links Klein to controversial loans Premier called for 'an Alberta
> > >solution' to West Edmonton Mall troubles
> > >http://archives.theglobeandmail.com/biographies/storyjang.html
> > >BRENT JANG
> > >08/20/98, The Globe and Mail
> > >All material copyright Thomson Canada Limited or its licensors. All
> rights
> > >reserved.
> > >
> > >Alberta Premier Ralph Klein, whose government has consistently vowed
not
> to
> > >meddle in the private sector, was directly involved in provincially
owned
> > >Alberta Treasury Branches' 1994 refinancing of West Edmonton Mall,
> according
> > >to an internal memorandum.
> > >
> > >In his memo to two cabinet ministers dated Feb. 22, 1994, Mr. Klein
> reveals
> > >that he discussed the topic of what to do about the mall's major
lender,
> > >Gentra Inc., at a meeting of a cabinet subcommittee.
> > >
> > >Gentra had been monitoring the mall closely because of concern about
the
> > >shopping centre's cash flow.
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein wrote that "it would be most helpful" if the mall's owners --
> the
> > >Ghermezian family's holding company at the time, Triple Five
Corporation
> > >Ltd. -- met with ATB for "serious discussions to find a positive
> resolution
> > >to this matter."
> > >
> > >Gentra, controlled by Toronto's Edper Bronfman group, withdrew as the
> lead
> > >lender eight months later, paving the way for ATB to increase to
> > >$440-million from $75-million the loans and loan guarantees to the
mall,
> on
> > >Oct. 31, 1994 .
> > >
> > >The memo is likely to prove embarrassing for the Klein government,
> > >especially because Alberta Auditor-General Peter Valentine began an
> > >investigation earlier this month into circumstances surrounding the
> mall's
> > >1994 refinancing.
> > >
> > >ATB also has been under fire in recent years for a series of
> controversial
> > >loans, such as those to former Edmonton Oilers owner Peter Pocklington.
> > >
> > >It remains unknown what role the Progressive Conservative government
> played
> > >in the final stages of West Edmonton Mall's refinancing. But the memo
> > >indicates that Mr. Klein favoured a made-in-Alberta financial
arrangement
> > >for the world's largest shopping centre.
> > >
> > >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on Feb. 14, it
> was
> > >clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
> Edmonton
> > >Mall," the Premier said in the memo to two cabinet ministers, Ken
> Kowalski,
> > >then the minister of tourism and economic development, and Jim Dinning,
> then
> > >the treasurer.
> > >
> > >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
> same
> > >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
> for
> > >the economic benefit of Alberta," Mr. Klein said in the memo, obtained
by
> > >The Globe and Mail.
> > >
> > >In an interview yesterday, Mr. Dinning -- who is now a senior
> vice-president
> > >at TransAlta Corp., a Calgary-based electricity company -- would not
> comment
> > >on Mr. Klein's memo. But he expressed confidence in the
Auditor-General's
> > >inquiry, saying the "investigation is ongoing and, by God, let's get to
> the
> > >bottom of it."
> > >
> > >The former treasurer said it would be inappropriate for him to
elaborate
> > >because "events are unfolding."
> > >
> > >"Given all of the events that have transpired on this file and all of
the
> > >things that have happened since I left office, I don't think that
> anything
> > >I'm going to say is going to add the value you're looking for."
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein is on holiday and could not be reached for comment yesterday.
> > >
> > >Amid the Auditor-General's probe, the Opposition Liberals have said the
> > >Conservative government should be held accountable for its role in
> raising
> > >ATB's potential exposure to the mall to $440-million.
> > >
> > >The Liberals have long suspected that the government used ATB to
backstop
> > >the mall. But in response to an ATB question from then Liberal leader
> Grant
> > >Mitchell in the Alberta Legislature on April 30, 1997, Mr. Klein said:
> "The
> > >leader of the Opposition knows very, very well that the ATB operates at
> > >arm's length from the government of Alberta."
> > >
> > >ATB operated under the government's Treasury Department until last
year,
> > >when it became a Crown corporation. CIBC Wood Gundy, at the request of
> > >Alberta Treasurer Stockwell Day, is now studying various options for
> ATB's
> > >future, including privatization.
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein, who became Premier in late 1992, campaigned in the June,
1993,
> > >general election on a platform of halting government handouts to the
> private
> > >sector. He took a similar stand in his re-election campaign last year.
> > >
> > >Mr. Klein, Mr. Kowalski and Mr. Dinning all have stressed that they
> played
> > >no role in influencing ATB's lending decisions.
> > >
> > >Allan Bray, ATB's superintendent from 1985 until May 31, 1994, said in
an
> > >interview yesterday that in February of 1994, he was examining ways to
> > >reduce the bank's financial exposure to West Edmonton Mall.
> > >
> > >Court documents show that Gentra led a syndicate of lenders that had
> > >provided $350-million in loans to the shopping centre. ATB was on the
> hook
> > >at one point for $85-million and still others lent $40-million, making
> > >$475-million in total.
> > >
> > >Mr. Bray said he thought he had struck a deal with Gentra before he
> retired
> > >that would have prevented ATB from lending any more money to the mall.
> > >
> > >The mall's 1994 refinancing warrants an independent public inquiry, not
> just
> > >the Auditor-General's investigation, he added.
> > >
> > >Elmer Leahy, who replaced Mr. Bray and served as ATB's top executive
> until
> > >September of 1996, is now being sued by ATB.
> > >
> > >Mr. Leahy, whose lawyers allege that ATB is unfairly accusing their
> client
> > >of accepting bribes from West Edmonton Mall, has filed a counterclaim.
He
> is
> > >alleging the bank libelled him.
> > >
> > >In his memo, Mr. Klein urged his two cabinet ministers to keep tabs on
> ATB
> > >to ensure that the mall's 1994 refinancing process would go smoothly.
"As
> we
> > >discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta Treasury Branch to
> make
> > >sure there is 'good faith' and good will in discussions with West
> Edmonton
> > >Mall and-or First Boston," Mr. Klein said in his memo to Mr. Kowalski
and
> > >Mr. Dinning. "Our Feb. 14 meeting agreed that no agreement between
> Alberta
> > >Treasury Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> > >
> > >Two months after Mr. Klein's memo, ATB ended up spinning off
$10-million
> of
> > >its loans to a group led by First Boston.
> > >
> > >Mr. Bray said he didn't want to unload any portion of ATB's loans to
> First
> > >Boston, a U.S.-based lender which took part in the side deal before the
> main
> > >refinancing.
> > >
> > >One day after Mr. Klein's memo, mall co-owner Nader Ghermezian sent a
> letter
> > >to the Premier in which Mr. Ghermezian lobbied the government to help
> knock
> > >Gentra out of the picture.
> > >
> > >The continued presence of Gentra "would not be in the best interest of
> > >Alberta. . . . Now we see the end is coming, all the doors have been
> locked
> > >and you are holding the key," Mr. Ghermezian wrote to Mr. Klein in the
> > >one-page letter on Triple Five's letterhead and stamped confidential.
> > >
> > >Mr. Ghermezian added in his letter that he had informed ATB that West
> > >Edmonton Mall had been appraised for $679-million.
> > >
> > >That letter is contained in a box of documents submitted in a court
case
> > >launched by one of the mall's disgruntled creditors.
> > >
> > >Mr. Ghermezian's Feb. 23, 1994 letter is the second to surface
publicly.
> In
> > >his first letter -- dated Feb. 4, 1994, and leaked to the media one
month
> > >later -- Mr. Ghermezian asked the Premier to help secure loans from ATB
> and
> > >shut out Gentra.
> > >
> > >THE PREMIER'S MEMO
> > >
> > >"Further to our conversation and our Priorities Meeting on February 14,
> it
> > >was clear that an Alberta solution would be preferable relative to West
> > >Edmonton Mall.
> > >
> > >"We need to protect the Alberta Treasury Branch (ATB) loans and, at the
> same
> > >time, ensure that the potential of West Edmonton Mall can be maximized
> for
> > >the economic benefit of Alberta.
> > >
> > >"It would be most helpful if Alberta Treasury Branch and Triple Five
> > >undertook very serious discussions to find a positive resolution to
this
> > >matter. As we discussed, I would ask you to follow up with Alberta
> Treasury
> > >Branch to make sure there is "good faith" and good will in discussions
> with
> > >West Edmonton Mall and/or First Boston.
> > >
> > >"Our February 14th meeting agreed that no agreement between Alberta
> Treasury
> > >Branch and Gentra should be finalized."
> > >
> > >-- Ralph Klein, Feb. 22, 1994
> > >
> > >Lawyers, Judges & Politicians serve best - when recycled, as
fertliser!!
> > >
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services.
> > >The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header
> > >is unverified.
> > >
> >
>
>
you lieing scumhole shitbag
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
"Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
you and boris and bumbuddys
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
"Geraldo" <I'mNotGay@no-spam> wrote in message
news:QQ48b.130408$la.2863086@no-spam
> I wonder what sort of gifts and gratuities he got for that stunt?...The
Coos
> gave him furniture and wine and dinners and he apparently didn't do
anything
> for them...His wife got free stock when Ralph spoke for some company in
Hong
> Kong but of course his wife never told him about that..That' s why Ralph
> went to get his communcations diploma...so he could communicate with
Colleen
> and keep all the "freebies" in a database.....Forgiving $400 Mill must
> qualify for some major "gift" or why else would fat Ralph do it?....In
> Ralph's World average people pay the freight for his cronies..What else is
> new?...It's the same with drooling Jean Chretien.
>
>
> "Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS,
> > WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY
> > TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
HAVING FUN WANKER FAKING POSTS
WANKER PROVING YET AGAIN THAT AMERICANS ARE STUPID
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
`Top Poster` <Top@no-spam> wrote in message
news:mJI8b.2495$Cu3.118@no-spam
> you lieing scumhole shitbag
>
> --
>
> Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
> they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear.
If
> a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
> should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded,
but
> the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the
erroneous
>
> "Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
>
>
>
HAVING FUN WANKER FAKING POSTS
WANKER PROVING YET AGAIN THAT AMERICANS ARE STUPID
--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous
`Top Poster` <Top@no-spam> wrote in message
news:pJI8b.2497$Cu3.52@no-spam
> you and boris and bumbuddys
>
> --
>
> Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
> they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear.
If
> a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
> should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded,
but
> the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the
erroneous
>
> "Geraldo" <I'mNotGay@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:QQ48b.130408$la.2863086@no-spam
> > I wonder what sort of gifts and gratuities he got for that stunt?...The
> Coos
> > gave him furniture and wine and dinners and he apparently didn't do
> anything
> > for them...His wife got free stock when Ralph spoke for some company in
> Hong
> > Kong but of course his wife never told him about that..That' s why Ralph
> > went to get his communcations diploma...so he could communicate with
> Colleen
> > and keep all the "freebies" in a database.....Forgiving $400 Mill must
> > qualify for some major "gift" or why else would fat Ralph do it?....In
> > Ralph's World average people pay the freight for his cronies..What else
is
> > new?...It's the same with drooling Jean Chretien.
> >
> >
> > "Boris Dynin" <boris@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:jt91mvgai1jjspboqmpkasm59leur4gfp9@no-spam
> > > With Ralph Klein letting Triple 5 avoid paying MORE THAN 400 MILLION
> > > DOLLARS to ATB, while at the same time making sick and elderly seniors
> > > pay a whopping increase in the rents for disabled seniors, is it fair
> > > to say that Klein PREFERS TO JEW SENIORS,
> > > WHILE GIVING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF SENIORS' MONEY
> > > TO HIS JEW BUDDIES??
>
>
>