Well, Goat, the religions your type are kicking out of our scholls and
public places are the same ones that founded our country in the 1700's!
So your basic theses is incorrect!
"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
news:ac30fvsuftf9647cnihalofdhmr4kaa3rh@no-spam
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:36:47 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >Stange, Goat, that we survived from 1776 until the modern "supremes" as
you
> >refer to them, decided that we were in danger of a "theocracy" saved
only
> >by the communists/liberals, and of course the "supremes"!
> >
> The problem is that the world has changed since 1776, that's why the
> constitution has been amended several times. For example, there was no
> radical religious right before. These people will shamelessly admit
> they want political office in order to use the power of the state to
> enforce their religious beliefs on those who do not share them.
> There's a reason for separation of church and state and 'no
> established religion'. If you think the Falwells and Robertsons could
> resist the temptation to act like Iranian Ayatollahs given the chance
> you are a lot more trusting than I am.
>
> The former leader of the Reform Party in Canada (in US terms, right
> wing republican) was perfectly frank about his wish to do exactly that
> when he was a provincial politician.
>
> >I personally could care less, but to remove this stuff from our public
> >buildings and parks is just stupid. I grew up in this country, and
attended
> >public schools, and I never felt intimidated or was never forced to
"pray"
> >
> >However as they continue to rewrite our constitution, they now want to
> >eliminate the 2nd amendment, our right to keep and bear arms, so their
> >spoiled brat liberal kids won't shot their teachers or fellow students in
> >one of their temper tantrums. Much better if they took those brats out
> >behind the woodshed, and whipped the hell out of them.
> >
> I would rather see the right to keep and arm bears myself, I think a
> grizzly could handle an M-60. You don't need an automatic weapon the
> hunt deer. The NRA is nuts 'in my opinion', all their mindless attacks
> on even the smallest control of firearms means, is that a drug dealing
> 14 year olds can mow down rivals and innocent civilians with his
> MAC-10.
>
> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
> >news:o4oqevkj97e4giv8f86j9sdb8jidhcvrj1@no-spam
> >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:11:37 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Goat; "Off Topic"? Obvisously, I was answering someone else, as have
many
> >> >others!
> >> >
> >> >Your grasping at straws now, because you have no arguments.
> >>
> >> 1.'Off Topic' is in the name of the thread, I did not start it.
> >>
> >> 2. I was replying to a post you made to "Sharon"
> >>
> >> 3. I removed the little > signs to make clear what you said and what I
> >> posted as a response as I think you may have missed something in the
> >> thread.
> >>
> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
> >> >news:vmnievs367o0lb5g609ij4u139ljtgqqm2@no-spam
> >> >> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:17:08 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Does anyone REALLY contest evolution as a subject anymore?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I think amonst conservatives, you are allowed to study or believe
> >> >whatever
> >> >> >you will.
> >> >> >
> >> The leftist communist/liberal/socialists are the ones who have
> >> rewritten out constitution, removing all references to a God, and all
> >> religious writings and acts from our schools, and our public
> >> buildings,by the misinterpretation of our constitution.
> >>
> >> Clearly, these socialists et. al. believe they have the exclusive
> >> right to degrade and eliminate that with which they disagree from
> >> public life.
> >>
> >> I disagree with you and so do the 'Supremes', all they have done is
> >> remove the promotion of one religion (Christianity - Protestant
> >> flavour only BTW)over another in public settings that are open to
> >> persons of all faiths (eg: prayer in schools). This is a small thing
> >> compared to the 'clear and present danger' a theocracy would pose to
> >> the US. Another reason not to vote for a 'Pat Robertson' type
> >> candidate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Sharon" <sharon@no-spam> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:3ee79445_2@no-spam
> >> >> >> I am troubled by some of the modern-day "Creationist Science"
that
> >is
> >> >> >going
> >> >> >> on, and they would attempt to use this pseudo-science, to harm
the
> >> >efforts
> >> >> >> to give children a real education, including evolution.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> One of the most profound evidences, that I have seen for
evolution,
> >was
> >> >in
> >> >> >> what scientists have unearthed, (even in modern day whales), and
> >that
> >> >> >being
> >> >> >> fossils which establish a link from land mammal to sea mammal. Of
> >> >course,
> >> >> >> there are Creationist groups which are at work to attempt to
> >discredit
> >> >> >what
> >> >> >> leading Paleontologists, such as Hans Thewissen have concluded
about
> >> >> >fossil
> >> >> >> finds of early whales.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Edward T. Babinski (Duke Furman University) has produced an
> >> >extraordinary
> >> >> >> article which is now on the web, concerning hind limbs on whales.
> >Some
> >> >> >> creationist scientists have claimed that no photographs exist,
and
> >that
> >> >> >its
> >> >> >> merely a myth invented by evolutionists.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> One of the sources he produced affirmed a 4½ ft. limb found on
one
> >> >whale.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The article is yet missing one picture which he has yet to send,
> >when
> >> >> >done,
> >> >> >> it will be added into the article.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> The myth that transitional fossils do not exist went bust:
> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html
> >> >> >> with gratitude to WGBH-Boston/PBS for their contribution.
> >> >> >> (Includes incredible new photographic evidence for whale
evolution,
> >> >> >> which various creationist groups have denied existed.)
> >> >> >> homepage at www.skeptical-christian.net
> >> >> >> My Kid's Powerpuff Chat site w/lots of classic arcade games
> >> >> >> www.bumblebee.wtcsites.com
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of
the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a
"national" religion.
The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the schools, in
public buildings,
and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous attifacts in these same
areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this to a
man.
Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support the
interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in recent
years is the disinformation you are reading.
You should read some of the original texts written by our founding fathers,
not that socialist trash your quoting from.
"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
news:is6dfv0p2mtpclnls9megl53o0fnknkpnr@no-spam
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:54:19 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >Well, Goat, the religions your type are kicking out of our scholls and
> >public places are the same ones that founded our country in the 1700's!
> >
> >So your basic theses is incorrect!
>
> Now this thinking is exactly why your 'founding fathers' rejected an
> 'established religion' and enshrined a separation of church and state
> in your constitution. The religions DID NOT 'found your country', in
> fact many of the original colonists came to the 'colonies' to escape
> religious persecution at home, remember that's why the Puritans (as
> only one example) came to what became the USA.
>
> Your country was founded by many like many individuals to "create a
> more perfect union", most were nominally followers of one or another
> Christian sect but they did not set out to found a theocracy.
>
> If you have proof to the contrary post it. You can't because there is
> none, you will now post some obfuscations and insults but as always no
> FACTS !
>
> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
> >news:ac30fvsuftf9647cnihalofdhmr4kaa3rh@no-spam
> >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:36:47 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Stange, Goat, that we survived from 1776 until the modern "supremes"
as
> >you
> >> >refer to them, decided that we were in danger of a "theocracy" saved
> >only
> >> >by the communists/liberals, and of course the "supremes"!
> >> >
> >> The problem is that the world has changed since 1776, that's why the
> >> constitution has been amended several times. For example, there was no
> >> radical religious right before. These people will shamelessly admit
> >> they want political office in order to use the power of the state to
> >> enforce their religious beliefs on those who do not share them.
> >> There's a reason for separation of church and state and 'no
> >> established religion'. If you think the Falwells and Robertsons could
> >> resist the temptation to act like Iranian Ayatollahs given the chance
> >> you are a lot more trusting than I am.
> >>
> >> The former leader of the Reform Party in Canada (in US terms, right
> >> wing republican) was perfectly frank about his wish to do exactly that
> >> when he was a provincial politician.
> >>
> >> >I personally could care less, but to remove this stuff from our public
> >> >buildings and parks is just stupid. I grew up in this country, and
> >attended
> >> >public schools, and I never felt intimidated or was never forced to
> >"pray"
> >> >
> >> >However as they continue to rewrite our constitution, they now want to
> >> >eliminate the 2nd amendment, our right to keep and bear arms, so their
> >> >spoiled brat liberal kids won't shot their teachers or fellow students
in
> >> >one of their temper tantrums. Much better if they took those brats out
> >> >behind the woodshed, and whipped the hell out of them.
> >> >
> >> I would rather see the right to keep and arm bears myself, I think a
> >> grizzly could handle an M-60. You don't need an automatic weapon the
> >> hunt deer. The NRA is nuts 'in my opinion', all their mindless attacks
> >> on even the smallest control of firearms means, is that a drug dealing
> >> 14 year olds can mow down rivals and innocent civilians with his
> >> MAC-10.
> >>
> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
> >> >news:o4oqevkj97e4giv8f86j9sdb8jidhcvrj1@no-spam
> >> >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:11:37 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Goat; "Off Topic"? Obvisously, I was answering someone else, as
have
> >many
> >> >> >others!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Your grasping at straws now, because you have no arguments.
> >> >>
> >> >> 1.'Off Topic' is in the name of the thread, I did not start it.
> >> >>
> >> >> 2. I was replying to a post you made to "Sharon"
> >> >>
> >> >> 3. I removed the little > signs to make clear what you said and what
I
> >> >> posted as a response as I think you may have missed something in the
> >> >> thread.
> >> >>
> >> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:vmnievs367o0lb5g609ij4u139ljtgqqm2@no-spam
> >> >> >> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:17:08 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam>
wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Does anyone REALLY contest evolution as a subject anymore?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I think amonst conservatives, you are allowed to study or
believe
> >> >> >whatever
> >> >> >> >you will.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> The leftist communist/liberal/socialists are the ones who have
> >> >> rewritten out constitution, removing all references to a God, and
all
> >> >> religious writings and acts from our schools, and our public
> >> >> buildings,by the misinterpretation of our constitution.
> >> >>
> >> >> Clearly, these socialists et. al. believe they have the exclusive
> >> >> right to degrade and eliminate that with which they disagree from
> >> >> public life.
> >> >>
> >> >> I disagree with you and so do the 'Supremes', all they have done is
> >> >> remove the promotion of one religion (Christianity - Protestant
> >> >> flavour only BTW)over another in public settings that are open to
> >> >> persons of all faiths (eg: prayer in schools). This is a small thing
> >> >> compared to the 'clear and present danger' a theocracy would pose to
> >> >> the US. Another reason not to vote for a 'Pat Robertson' type
> >> >> candidate.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Sharon" <sharon@no-spam> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >news:3ee79445_2@no-spam
> >> >> >> >> I am troubled by some of the modern-day "Creationist Science"
> >that
> >> >is
> >> >> >> >going
> >> >> >> >> on, and they would attempt to use this pseudo-science, to harm
> >the
> >> >> >efforts
> >> >> >> >> to give children a real education, including evolution.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> One of the most profound evidences, that I have seen for
> >evolution,
> >> >was
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >> what scientists have unearthed, (even in modern day whales),
and
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >being
> >> >> >> >> fossils which establish a link from land mammal to sea mammal.
Of
> >> >> >course,
> >> >> >> >> there are Creationist groups which are at work to attempt to
> >> >discredit
> >> >> >> >what
> >> >> >> >> leading Paleontologists, such as Hans Thewissen have concluded
> >about
> >> >> >> >fossil
> >> >> >> >> finds of early whales.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Edward T. Babinski (Duke Furman University) has produced an
> >> >> >extraordinary
> >> >> >> >> article which is now on the web, concerning hind limbs on
whales.
> >> >Some
> >> >> >> >> creationist scientists have claimed that no photographs exist,
> >and
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >its
> >> >> >> >> merely a myth invented by evolutionists.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> One of the sources he produced affirmed a 4½ ft. limb found on
> >one
> >> >> >whale.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> The article is yet missing one picture which he has yet to
send,
> >> >when
> >> >> >> >done,
> >> >> >> >> it will be added into the article.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> The myth that transitional fossils do not exist went bust:
> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html
> >> >> >> >> with gratitude to WGBH-Boston/PBS for their contribution.
> >> >> >> >> (Includes incredible new photographic evidence for whale
> >evolution,
> >> >> >> >> which various creationist groups have denied existed.)
> >> >> >> >> homepage at www.skeptical-christian.net
> >> >> >> >> My Kid's Powerpuff Chat site w/lots of classic arcade games
> >> >> >> >> www.bumblebee.wtcsites.com
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
> No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of
> the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a
> "national" religion.
>
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have
recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and
hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban, and
Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian fundamentalism.
Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world
without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted in
our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
"Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam
:
: <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
: > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language
of
: > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a
: > "national" religion.
: >
:
: Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have
: recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and
: hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban,
and
: Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian
fundamentalism.
: Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world
: without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted in
: our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
:
:
:
Reason,
Are you suggesting that USA is going to tank due to its born-again
government?
claus
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of
>the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a
>"national" religion.
>
Quite true.
>
>The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the schools, in
>public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous attifacts in these same
>areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this to a
>man.
>
>Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support the
>interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
>
>The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in recent
>years is the disinformation you are reading.
>
Since those words were written there have been many changes to the
society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no
longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a
hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written
for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and
Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were
appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal
again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few
number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One
reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit
the society of the present.
>You should read some of the original texts written by our founding fathers,
>not that socialist trash your quoting from.
>
ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here
is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:
"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect
union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the
common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings
of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish
this Constitution for the United States of America."
Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting
from"? It's the US constitution.
>"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:is6dfv0p2mtpclnls9megl53o0fnknkpnr@no-spam
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:54:19 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>>
>> >Well, Goat, the religions your type are kicking out of our scholls and
>> >public places are the same ones that founded our country in the 1700's!
>> >
>> >So your basic theses is incorrect!
>>
>> Now this thinking is exactly why your 'founding fathers' rejected an
>> 'established religion' and enshrined a separation of church and state
>> in your constitution. The religions DID NOT 'found your country', in
>> fact many of the original colonists came to the 'colonies' to escape
>> religious persecution at home, remember that's why the Puritans (as
>> only one example) came to what became the USA.
>>
>> Your country was founded by many like many individuals to "create a
>> more perfect union", most were nominally followers of one or another
>> Christian sect but they did not set out to found a theocracy.
>>
>> If you have proof to the contrary post it. You can't because there is
>> none, you will now post some obfuscations and insults but as always no
>> FACTS !
>>
>> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
>> >news:ac30fvsuftf9647cnihalofdhmr4kaa3rh@no-spam
>> >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:36:47 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Stange, Goat, that we survived from 1776 until the modern "supremes"
>as
>> >you
>> >> >refer to them, decided that we were in danger of a "theocracy" saved
>> >only
>> >> >by the communists/liberals, and of course the "supremes"!
>> >> >
>> >> The problem is that the world has changed since 1776, that's why the
>> >> constitution has been amended several times. For example, there was no
>> >> radical religious right before. These people will shamelessly admit
>> >> they want political office in order to use the power of the state to
>> >> enforce their religious beliefs on those who do not share them.
>> >> There's a reason for separation of church and state and 'no
>> >> established religion'. If you think the Falwells and Robertsons could
>> >> resist the temptation to act like Iranian Ayatollahs given the chance
>> >> you are a lot more trusting than I am.
>> >>
>> >> The former leader of the Reform Party in Canada (in US terms, right
>> >> wing republican) was perfectly frank about his wish to do exactly that
>> >> when he was a provincial politician.
>> >>
>> >> >I personally could care less, but to remove this stuff from our public
>> >> >buildings and parks is just stupid. I grew up in this country, and
>> >attended
>> >> >public schools, and I never felt intimidated or was never forced to
>> >"pray"
>> >> >
>> >> >However as they continue to rewrite our constitution, they now want to
>> >> >eliminate the 2nd amendment, our right to keep and bear arms, so their
>> >> >spoiled brat liberal kids won't shot their teachers or fellow students
>in
>> >> >one of their temper tantrums. Much better if they took those brats out
>> >> >behind the woodshed, and whipped the hell out of them.
>> >> >
>> >> I would rather see the right to keep and arm bears myself, I think a
>> >> grizzly could handle an M-60. You don't need an automatic weapon the
>> >> hunt deer. The NRA is nuts 'in my opinion', all their mindless attacks
>> >> on even the smallest control of firearms means, is that a drug dealing
>> >> 14 year olds can mow down rivals and innocent civilians with his
>> >> MAC-10.
>> >>
>> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
>> >> >news:o4oqevkj97e4giv8f86j9sdb8jidhcvrj1@no-spam
>> >> >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:11:37 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Goat; "Off Topic"? Obvisously, I was answering someone else, as
>have
>> >many
>> >> >> >others!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Your grasping at straws now, because you have no arguments.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1.'Off Topic' is in the name of the thread, I did not start it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2. I was replying to a post you made to "Sharon"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 3. I removed the little > signs to make clear what you said and what
>I
>> >> >> posted as a response as I think you may have missed something in the
>> >> >> thread.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
>> >> >> >news:vmnievs367o0lb5g609ij4u139ljtgqqm2@no-spam
>> >> >> >> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:17:08 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam>
>wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Does anyone REALLY contest evolution as a subject anymore?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I think amonst conservatives, you are allowed to study or
>believe
>> >> >> >whatever
>> >> >> >> >you will.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> The leftist communist/liberal/socialists are the ones who have
>> >> >> rewritten out constitution, removing all references to a God, and
>all
>> >> >> religious writings and acts from our schools, and our public
>> >> >> buildings,by the misinterpretation of our constitution.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Clearly, these socialists et. al. believe they have the exclusive
>> >> >> right to degrade and eliminate that with which they disagree from
>> >> >> public life.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I disagree with you and so do the 'Supremes', all they have done is
>> >> >> remove the promotion of one religion (Christianity - Protestant
>> >> >> flavour only BTW)over another in public settings that are open to
>> >> >> persons of all faiths (eg: prayer in schools). This is a small thing
>> >> >> compared to the 'clear and present danger' a theocracy would pose to
>> >> >> the US. Another reason not to vote for a 'Pat Robertson' type
>> >> >> candidate.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >"Sharon" <sharon@no-spam> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >news:3ee79445_2@no-spam
>> >> >> >> >> I am troubled by some of the modern-day "Creationist Science"
>> >that
>> >> >is
>> >> >> >> >going
>> >> >> >> >> on, and they would attempt to use this pseudo-science, to harm
>> >the
>> >> >> >efforts
>> >> >> >> >> to give children a real education, including evolution.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> One of the most profound evidences, that I have seen for
>> >evolution,
>> >> >was
>> >> >> >in
>> >> >> >> >> what scientists have unearthed, (even in modern day whales),
>and
>> >> >that
>> >> >> >> >being
>> >> >> >> >> fossils which establish a link from land mammal to sea mammal.
>Of
>> >> >> >course,
>> >> >> >> >> there are Creationist groups which are at work to attempt to
>> >> >discredit
>> >> >> >> >what
>> >> >> >> >> leading Paleontologists, such as Hans Thewissen have concluded
>> >about
>> >> >> >> >fossil
>> >> >> >> >> finds of early whales.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Edward T. Babinski (Duke Furman University) has produced an
>> >> >> >extraordinary
>> >> >> >> >> article which is now on the web, concerning hind limbs on
>whales.
>> >> >Some
>> >> >> >> >> creationist scientists have claimed that no photographs exist,
>> >and
>> >> >that
>> >> >> >> >its
>> >> >> >> >> merely a myth invented by evolutionists.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> One of the sources he produced affirmed a 4½ ft. limb found on
>> >one
>> >> >> >whale.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The article is yet missing one picture which he has yet to
>send,
>> >> >when
>> >> >> >> >done,
>> >> >> >> >> it will be added into the article.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> The myth that transitional fossils do not exist went bust:
>> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html
>> >> >> >> >> with gratitude to WGBH-Boston/PBS for their contribution.
>> >> >> >> >> (Includes incredible new photographic evidence for whale
>> >evolution,
>> >> >> >> >> which various creationist groups have denied existed.)
>> >> >> >> >> homepage at www.skeptical-christian.net
>> >> >> >> >> My Kid's Powerpuff Chat site w/lots of classic arcade games
>> >> >> >> >> www.bumblebee.wtcsites.com
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
news:PnCJa.1889$xv.1695@no-spam
> Well, one babtist minister was probably tired of the constant attacks of
> thousands of leftists.
>
> When you strat a fight, you have to expect to get hit a few times, and
this
> fight was not started by any "religious" group, it was started by some
> socialist, liberal, leftist, (It's very hard to use all the false names
you
> people apply to yourselves) groups who do not believe in religion, in
> accordance with their basic communist dictates.
>
You asked for the proof, I gave you the proof, then you back step to try to
justify it. And who said I didn't belive in religion? Agreeing with the
constitution doesn't make one an atheist. Maybe I think that a parent
should be responsible for a child's religious upbringing. A Hindu American
citizen pays taxes, yet his tax dollars aren't put towards providing his
children with a Hindu education. Why should a Christian citizen receive
benefits that citizens of other religions do not receive?
Robin
Again, Robin, our constitution does NOT proscribe religion in public places,
nor did our forefathers. It proscribes the STATE support of any particular
religion over others.
The leftist liers have managed in recent years, through our supreme court
judges appointed by leftist presidents, to gain decisions reinterpreting our
constitution to support the communist belief that all religion is bad, and
must be discouraged by government action.
You should do some reading of the ORIGINAL debates by our forefathers, and
their ORIGINAL writings and practices, for the truth here.
As I said in the very beginning of this debate, this ain't my argument, and
I could care less if your an atheist or not.
But as a practicing liberal, on any subject, your concern with who gets
"benefits" from the government is telling. The Government, in leftist
terms, can be defined simply as a giver of unearned "rights" and unearned
"benefits," taken from the labor of others.
So far as I concerned, you can all earn your own living. My tax money should
not go to a buch of lazy leftist bums for "benefits" for anything.
"Robin" <robinandtami@no-spam> wrote in message
news:2BqKa.20143$Ab2.40085@no-spam
>
> <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:PnCJa.1889$xv.1695@no-spam
> > Well, one babtist minister was probably tired of the constant attacks of
> > thousands of leftists.
> >
> > When you strat a fight, you have to expect to get hit a few times, and
> this
> > fight was not started by any "religious" group, it was started by some
> > socialist, liberal, leftist, (It's very hard to use all the false names
> you
> > people apply to yourselves) groups who do not believe in religion, in
> > accordance with their basic communist dictates.
> >
>
>
> You asked for the proof, I gave you the proof, then you back step to try
to
> justify it. And who said I didn't belive in religion? Agreeing with the
> constitution doesn't make one an atheist. Maybe I think that a parent
> should be responsible for a child's religious upbringing. A Hindu
American
> citizen pays taxes, yet his tax dollars aren't put towards providing his
> children with a Hindu education. Why should a Christian citizen receive
> benefits that citizens of other religions do not receive?
>
> Robin
>
>
"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
news:cr3ifvsj0unirdv8pmnpait5qmiaslpipm@no-spam
: On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
:
: >No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of
: >the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a
: >"national" religion.
: >
: Quite true.
: >
: >The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the schools,
in
: >public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous
attifacts in these same
: >areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this
to a
: >man.
: >
: >Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support
the
: >interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
: >
: >The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in
recent
: >years is the disinformation you are reading.
: >
: Since those words were written there have been many changes to the
: society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no
: longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a
: hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written
: for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and
: Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were
: appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal
: again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few
: number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One
: reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit
: the society of the present.
:
: >You should read some of the original texts written by our founding
fathers,
: >not that socialist trash your quoting from.
: >
: ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here
: is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:
:
: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect
: union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the
: common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings
: of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish
: this Constitution for the United States of America."
:
: Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting
: from"? It's the US constitution.
:
:
goat,
I've taken the liberty of shortening the post to what I consider relevant.
Well said. nshi is just a cutup and funny person. He tries to provoke and
thinks FOX network is a great source of news, which may be true if you like
The Simpsons or South park which I do. I also think Jon Stewart is funny
but then according to the great psychiatric diagnostician Terry Pearson I'm
to use his scientific term "wacko".
As you probably know I live north of the great lakes but do get a lot of
info on US politics and am fascinated by it.
You're right about the constitution its a great document and seems to have
changed little in over 200 years. Only time will tell if this is good
especially in light of the events of the past 20 years. The sad thing is
that an apathy seems to have set in that permits ambitious groups to erode
the rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed by it.
The Supreme court is a brilliant check on excesses of the executive branch
but seems to be slowly becoming partisan in its outlook although this was
true during days past with Warren (backfired), Marshall, Frankfurter to name
a few.
From my side of the border America 's great convulsions over religion in
government is looked on in wonder . Most of the rest of the world has
gotten past theocratic vs. secular government although countries where Islam
is present seem to be in trouble.
Nshi,
you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America has
a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that not
what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of
church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of flavours
but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles inserted
in their nether regions?
What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist
politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least
dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without a
perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist at
ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but soc-called
democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
claus
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam
: Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
:
: Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it
does
: NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion, anywhere in
: our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the
placing
: of religious artifacts in these places.
:
: This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I stated
: before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national
: practice to practice religion in public places and buildings, including
our
: schools.
:
: Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other
dumb
: communist did not write?
:
: I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
: You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
: Get some books. Read.
:
:
: "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam
: >
: > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
: > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
: > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language
: of
: > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing
a
: > > "national" religion.
: > >
: >
: > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have
: > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and
: > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban,
: and
: > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian
: fundamentalism.
: > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world
: > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted
in
: > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
: >
: >
: >
:
:
Reason,
I still question the motives stated for the so-called separation of church
and state. My observation of politicians over the years is that most if not
all of them would prostitute their mothers in an effort to get their feet in
the public trough. Altruism has never been the primary motive in fact the
opposite, self-interest is the driving force. Beside god is plastered
throughout the country in the currency in oaths and it is continually being
invoked by the President. There is little doubt that these references are to
certainly a christian and perhaps Judaic god.
claus
"Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
news:kfNKa.299879$ro6.7423257@no-spam
: The separation of church and state is not merely about allowing you the
: freedom to practice the religion of your choice, that's the simplistic
view
: you learned in grade school. The founding fathers of the US constitution
: fully recognized the hazards of theocratic governments that had led to the
: English civil war over a century before. They wisely realized that keeping
: religion out of government was necessary for maintaining freedoms of
: expression and the pursuit of happiness.
:
:
: "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam
: > Nshi,
: > you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America
: has
: > a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that
: not
: > what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of
: > church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of
flavours
: > but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles
: inserted
: > in their nether regions?
: > What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist
: > politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least
: > dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without
a
: > perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist
at
: > ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but
soc-called
: > democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
: >
: > what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
: >
: > claus
: > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
: > news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam
: > : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
: > :
: > : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it
: > does
: > : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion,
anywhere
: in
: > : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the
: > placing
: > : of religious artifacts in these places.
: > :
: > : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I
: stated
: > : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the
national
: > : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings,
including
: > our
: > : schools.
: > :
: > : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or
other
: > dumb
: > : communist did not write?
: > :
: > : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite
clear.
: > : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
: > : Get some books. Read.
: > :
: > :
: > : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
: > : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam
: > : >
: > : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
: > : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
: > : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the
: language
: > : of
: > : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from
: establishing
: > a
: > : > > "national" religion.
: > : > >
: > : >
: > : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers
have
: > : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and
: > : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the
: Taliban,
: > : and
: > : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian
: > : fundamentalism.
: > : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real
: world
: > : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for
granted
: > in
: > : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious
: ones.
: > : >
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
:
:
Hi again, Santa!
Once again, you Canadians seem to think you know more of our government and
our constitution than we do!
Well, you just don't. Under our constitution, we are free to practice any
religion we choose.
The argument amonst US, is weither we can do it in publicly owned places.
Thats all.
So I guess we don't need your interpretatoion nor your advice.
What religion any of you do or do not practice is none of my concren, and I
certainly would not presume to tell you what you should do.
Only communists demand you give up religion.
"santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message
news:qNDKa.2727$Ab1.22592@no-spam
>
> "Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:cr3ifvsj0unirdv8pmnpait5qmiaslpipm@no-spam
> : On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> :
> : >No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language
of
> : >the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing
a
> : >"national" religion.
> : >
> : Quite true.
> : >
> : >The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the
schools,
> in
> : >public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous
> attifacts in these same
> : >areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this
> to a
> : >man.
> : >
> : >Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support
> the
> : >interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
> : >
> : >The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in
> recent
> : >years is the disinformation you are reading.
> : >
> : Since those words were written there have been many changes to the
> : society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no
> : longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a
> : hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written
> : for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and
> : Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were
> : appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal
> : again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few
> : number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One
> : reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit
> : the society of the present.
> :
> : >You should read some of the original texts written by our founding
> fathers,
> : >not that socialist trash your quoting from.
> : >
> : ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here
> : is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:
> :
> : "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect
> : union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the
> : common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings
> : of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish
> : this Constitution for the United States of America."
> :
> : Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting
> : from"? It's the US constitution.
> :
> :
> goat,
> I've taken the liberty of shortening the post to what I consider relevant.
> Well said. nshi is just a cutup and funny person. He tries to provoke
and
> thinks FOX network is a great source of news, which may be true if you
like
> The Simpsons or South park which I do. I also think Jon Stewart is funny
> but then according to the great psychiatric diagnostician Terry Pearson
I'm
> to use his scientific term "wacko".
> As you probably know I live north of the great lakes but do get a lot of
> info on US politics and am fascinated by it.
> You're right about the constitution its a great document and seems to have
> changed little in over 200 years. Only time will tell if this is good
> especially in light of the events of the past 20 years. The sad thing is
> that an apathy seems to have set in that permits ambitious groups to erode
> the rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed by it.
> The Supreme court is a brilliant check on excesses of the executive branch
> but seems to be slowly becoming partisan in its outlook although this was
> true during days past with Warren (backfired), Marshall, Frankfurter to
name
> a few.
> From my side of the border America 's great convulsions over religion in
> government is looked on in wonder . Most of the rest of the world has
> gotten past theocratic vs. secular government although countries where
Islam
> is present seem to be in trouble.
>
Have you ever read the Bible? It is leftist and Jesus was an anarchist.
Fred
<nshinede@no-spam> a écrit dans le message de
news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam
> Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
>
> Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it
does
> NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion, anywhere in
> our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the
placing
> of religious artifacts in these places.
>
> This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I stated
> before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national
> practice to practice religion in public places and buildings, including
our
> schools.
>
> Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other
dumb
> communist did not write?
>
> I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
> You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
> Get some books. Read.
>
>
> "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam
> >
> > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
> > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language
> of
> > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing
a
> > > "national" religion.
> > >
> >
> > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have
> > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and
> > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban,
> and
> > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian
> fundamentalism.
> > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world
> > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted
in
> > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
news:q%CKa.4855$xv.2375@no-spam
> So far as I concerned, you can all earn your own living. My tax money
should
> not go to a buch of lazy leftist bums for "benefits" for anything.
> "Robin" <robinandtami@no-spam> wrote in message
Everyone in America "benefits" from the things their tax dollars pay for.
Sanitation, police, fire, roads, you name it. I just don't see why a
Buddhist would care to "benefit" from having the ten commanments hung over a
judge's bench.
nshi,
You're cutting up again! "weather we can do it in publicly owned places.
That's all." is BS. I'll bet I know more about US politics and history
than you know about Canadian. Why not stop gainsaying me and at least
attempt to prove your assertion?
US does have a state religion its called christianity which in the scheme of
things is not number one in terms of professed followers in the world's
religions. I read some where that George W. as governor of Texas proclaimed
one day as Jesus day when he was in office there. Is that true?
US may not need advice but it needs something. US is becoming identified as
the world's bully and political idiot.
BTW you remembered correctly I've never been in the military but I've had
lots of exposure to them one way and another. Not a nice lot generally.
I've just heard snippets of the report produced regard sexual predation at
the US Air Force Academy. Not really much of a recommendation about US
morality. I don't give a shit who sodomizes who as long as they're
consenting but rape is a nasty business and the herd mentality is almost as
bad.
You should get your shit together on the differences between communism and
bolshevism, they're not the same thing.
It's yellow elevated today I hear
claus
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
news:JB2La.3933$ND.395@no-spam
: Hi again, Santa!
:
: Once again, you Canadians seem to think you know more of our government
and
: our constitution than we do!
:
: Well, you just don't. Under our constitution, we are free to practice any
: religion we choose.
: The argument amonst US, is weither we can do it in publicly owned places.
: Thats all.
:
: So I guess we don't need your interpretatoion nor your advice.
:
: What religion any of you do or do not practice is none of my concren, and
I
: certainly would not presume to tell you what you should do.
: Only communists demand you give up religion.
: "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:qNDKa.2727$Ab1.22592@no-spam
: >
: > "Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message
: > news:cr3ifvsj0unirdv8pmnpait5qmiaslpipm@no-spam
: > : On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
: > :
: > : >No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the
language
: of
: > : >the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from
establishing
: a
: > : >"national" religion.
: > : >
: > : Quite true.
: > : >
: > : >The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the
: schools,
: > in
: > : >public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous
: > attifacts in these same
: > : >areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation,
this
: > to a
: > : >man.
: > : >
: > : >Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully
support
: > the
: > : >interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
: > : >
: > : >The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in
: > recent
: > : >years is the disinformation you are reading.
: > : >
: > : Since those words were written there have been many changes to the
: > : society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no
: > : longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a
: > : hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written
: > : for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and
: > : Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were
: > : appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal
: > : again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few
: > : number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One
: > : reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit
: > : the society of the present.
: > :
: > : >You should read some of the original texts written by our founding
: > fathers,
: > : >not that socialist trash your quoting from.
: > : >
: > : ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here
: > : is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:
: > :
: > : "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect
: > : union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the
: > : common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings
: > : of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish
: > : this Constitution for the United States of America."
: > :
: > : Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting
: > : from"? It's the US constitution.
: > :
: > :
: > goat,
: > I've taken the liberty of shortening the post to what I consider
relevant.
: > Well said. nshi is just a cutup and funny person. He tries to provoke
: and
: > thinks FOX network is a great source of news, which may be true if you
: like
: > The Simpsons or South park which I do. I also think Jon Stewart is
funny
: > but then according to the great psychiatric diagnostician Terry Pearson
: I'm
: > to use his scientific term "wacko".
: > As you probably know I live north of the great lakes but do get a lot of
: > info on US politics and am fascinated by it.
: > You're right about the constitution its a great document and seems to
have
: > changed little in over 200 years. Only time will tell if this is good
: > especially in light of the events of the past 20 years. The sad thing is
: > that an apathy seems to have set in that permits ambitious groups to
erode
: > the rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed by it.
: > The Supreme court is a brilliant check on excesses of the executive
branch
: > but seems to be slowly becoming partisan in its outlook although this
was
: > true during days past with Warren (backfired), Marshall, Frankfurter to
: name
: > a few.
: > From my side of the border America 's great convulsions over religion in
: > government is looked on in wonder . Most of the rest of the world has
: > gotten past theocratic vs. secular government although countries where
: Islam
: > is present seem to be in trouble.
: >
:
:
Santa! Me thinks your STILL mad!
Most of our people are Christian. No doubt about that. But we have every
religion on earth, fully recognized here. THAT is EXACTLY what the
constitution requires!
What does that hurt? We aren't running concentration camps to burn up any of
them.
We all live together.
And ANY of them should have the right to practice their faith in public
areas and buildings!
What should our public offiers do? Have a generic bible?? I think not.
Now the red menace. Which WAS and IS communism, under several of its many
names,
is dead. It still exists in places like Cuba, or North Korea, but this will
pass.
China! The Chinese are smart people. They looked at communism, and said,
"Hay! This ain't working" They are rapidly becoming a capitalist
dictatorship, Santa. They bought right into "globalization" of our
economies, and they are taking our industry as quickly as they can sign the
contracts. Hugh Industries are moving to China.
Once they are ready, they will say to us all,
"Screw you, we got the buildings, we got the work, we got the machine tools,
shut Wall Street down, now, were coming for your wives!"
Terrorists? I hope they like you, santa. Fill their stockings!
"santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message
news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam
> Nshi,
> you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America
has
> a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that
not
> what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of
> church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of flavours
> but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles
inserted
> in their nether regions?
> What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist
> politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least
> dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without a
> perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist at
> ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but soc-called
> democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
>
> what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
>
> claus
> <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam
> : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
> :
> : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it
> does
> : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion, anywhere
in
> : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the
> placing
> : of religious artifacts in these places.
> :
> : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I
stated
> : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national
> : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings, including
> our
> : schools.
> :
> : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other
> dumb
> : communist did not write?
> :
> : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
> : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
> : Get some books. Read.
> :
> :
> : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
> : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam
> : >
> : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
> : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
> : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the
language
> : of
> : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from
establishing
> a
> : > > "national" religion.
> : > >
> : >
> : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have
> : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and
> : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the
Taliban,
> : and
> : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian
> : fundamentalism.
> : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real
world
> : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted
> in
> : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious
ones.
> : >
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>
Nshi,
US may have every religion on earth but I'll bet money that every public
avowed or suspected Moslem is on someone's security file right now. How
long before more camps go up?
Spare me about Cuba. US's dealings with Cuba are shameful. Forty years
later and the bully is still pissed about the bay of pigs and the take over
of private property. What's happening in Iraq is US going to force Iraq to
pay for being bombed? Talk about Christian charity.
Can't you understand that communism is not the same as Bolshevism, there's
some of each doctrine in both but they're not the same. Red is a colour and
so is blue but just because share an attribute doesn't make them the same.
Apply some simple logic.
US is running a camp, its called Gitmo. Federal penitentiaries are similar,
nacht und nebel is in effect.
Can't US ever ease up on "the Constitution says...." shtick? It was
written over 2000 years ago by a bunch of guys who had their own interests
in mind. It has many lines which are still valid but its like Torah it
needs interpretation and customizing to fit today's world.
you have a nice day
claus
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
news:ZjhLa.5532$xv.1497@no-spam
: Santa! Me thinks your STILL mad!
:
: Most of our people are Christian. No doubt about that. But we have every
: religion on earth, fully recognized here. THAT is EXACTLY what the
: constitution requires!
:
: What does that hurt? We aren't running concentration camps to burn up any
of
: them.
: We all live together.
:
: And ANY of them should have the right to practice their faith in public
: areas and buildings!
:
: What should our public offiers do? Have a generic bible?? I think not.
:
: Now the red menace. Which WAS and IS communism, under several of its many
: names,
: is dead. It still exists in places like Cuba, or North Korea, but this
will
: pass.
:
: China! The Chinese are smart people. They looked at communism, and said,
: "Hay! This ain't working" They are rapidly becoming a capitalist
: dictatorship, Santa. They bought right into "globalization" of our
: economies, and they are taking our industry as quickly as they can sign
the
: contracts. Hugh Industries are moving to China.
:
: Once they are ready, they will say to us all,
: "Screw you, we got the buildings, we got the work, we got the machine
tools,
: shut Wall Street down, now, were coming for your wives!"
:
: Terrorists? I hope they like you, santa. Fill their stockings!
: "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam
: > Nshi,
: > you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America
: has
: > a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that
: not
: > what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of
: > church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of
flavours
: > but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles
: inserted
: > in their nether regions?
: > What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist
: > politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least
: > dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without
a
: > perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist
at
: > ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but
soc-called
: > democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
: >
: > what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
: >
: > claus
: > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
: > news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam
: > : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
: > :
: > : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it
: > does
: > : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion,
anywhere
: in
: > : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the
: > placing
: > : of religious artifacts in these places.
: > :
: > : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I
: stated
: > : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the
national
: > : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings,
including
: > our
: > : schools.
: > :
: > : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or
other
: > dumb
: > : communist did not write?
: > :
: > : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite
clear.
: > : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
: > : Get some books. Read.
: > :
: > :
: > : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
: > : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam
: > : >
: > : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
: > : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
: > : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the
: language
: > : of
: > : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from
: establishing
: > a
: > : > > "national" religion.
: > : > >
: > : >
: > : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers
have
: > : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and
: > : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the
: Taliban,
: > : and
: > : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian
: > : fundamentalism.
: > : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real
: world
: > : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for
granted
: > in
: > : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious
: ones.
: > : >
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
:
:
Santa! All this emotion!
Wheres your proof? your evidence? your facts that you liberals always demand
of us?
Since the ONLY people who have blown us away are Arabs, don't you think it's
just common sense to be a little afraid of them?
Come on, Santa! use reason, common sense,not emotion!
Bay of pigs? Done under a democart President? Well, Cuba is a total joke in
the face of humanity. I'm glad Castro is still in power, because he
demonstrates how silly and yet dangerous you people really are. Somebody
ever think of giving Castro a bath, or a shave? Or charging him with mass
murder?
No, the US won't ask Iraq to pay. But I certainly would, if it were in my
power. I would take enough of their damned oil to pay for all our suffering.
Then I'd take enougth to pay for
each and every American soul lost. Hell, I might take the whole contry, and
REALLY become "expansionist and an Empire"!
Communism and Bolshevisim. Santa! I know you never served your country
(Rejected??)
but the difference is not in those old books.
The difference is between who butt stroked and who bayonetted. In other
words, who won. "Ideas" were for the "useless idiots" like you. The
communists happened to win in Russia. The Bolshevists would have produced
the same shameful results.There was no difference.
"Doctrines?" Simply put, bull shit. Those bastards would have written
anything to gain power. They would have "believed" and shouted, anything, to
gain power. They believed in nothing, but personal power. They were exactly,
just like Aldolf Hitler, but much more deadly and evil than Hitler.
You sit and read those trashy old bolshevick books, Santa. I'll read
something better.
Santa, I spent my youth in Germany. I know many Germans. Nacht u. Nebel?
Here? Your just either emotional or too stupid to know the difference.
The constitution was written 200, not 2000 years ago, but unlike you, I will
not accuse you of misspelling nor of being stupid.
Of couse, it was written by "guys who had there own self interest in mind"
Whatever in human history, was not?? Only you communists and liberals think
you are different from humanity. You are always better than us, in your
minds.AFTER the fact.
Now, after I read your other comics, and respond, I'm on vacation!
Merry Christmas!
"santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message
news:MEWLa.3580$Ab1.27073@no-spam
> Nshi,
> US may have every religion on earth but I'll bet money that every public
> avowed or suspected Moslem is on someone's security file right now. How
> long before more camps go up?
> Spare me about Cuba. US's dealings with Cuba are shameful. Forty years
> later and the bully is still pissed about the bay of pigs and the take
over
> of private property. What's happening in Iraq is US going to force Iraq to
> pay for being bombed? Talk about Christian charity.
> Can't you understand that communism is not the same as Bolshevism, there's
> some of each doctrine in both but they're not the same. Red is a colour
and
> so is blue but just because share an attribute doesn't make them the same.
> Apply some simple logic.
> US is running a camp, its called Gitmo. Federal penitentiaries are
similar,
> nacht und nebel is in effect.
> Can't US ever ease up on "the Constitution says...." shtick? It was
> written over 2000 years ago by a bunch of guys who had their own interests
> in mind. It has many lines which are still valid but its like Torah it
> needs interpretation and customizing to fit today's world.
>
> you have a nice day
> claus
>
>
> <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:ZjhLa.5532$xv.1497@no-spam
> : Santa! Me thinks your STILL mad!
> :
> : Most of our people are Christian. No doubt about that. But we have every
> : religion on earth, fully recognized here. THAT is EXACTLY what the
> : constitution requires!
> :
> : What does that hurt? We aren't running concentration camps to burn up
any
> of
> : them.
> : We all live together.
> :
> : And ANY of them should have the right to practice their faith in public
> : areas and buildings!
> :
> : What should our public offiers do? Have a generic bible?? I think not.
> :
> : Now the red menace. Which WAS and IS communism, under several of its
many
> : names,
> : is dead. It still exists in places like Cuba, or North Korea, but this
> will
> : pass.
> :
> : China! The Chinese are smart people. They looked at communism, and said,
> : "Hay! This ain't working" They are rapidly becoming a capitalist
> : dictatorship, Santa. They bought right into "globalization" of our
> : economies, and they are taking our industry as quickly as they can sign
> the
> : contracts. Hugh Industries are moving to China.
> :
> : Once they are ready, they will say to us all,
> : "Screw you, we got the buildings, we got the work, we got the machine
> tools,
> : shut Wall Street down, now, were coming for your wives!"
> :
> : Terrorists? I hope they like you, santa. Fill their stockings!
> : "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message
> : news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam
> : > Nshi,
> : > you should look around you the constitution has been subverted,
America
> : has
> : > a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is
that
> : not
> : > what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of
> : > church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of
> flavours
> : > but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles
> : inserted
> : > in their nether regions?
> : > What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist
> : > politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least
> : > dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do
without
> a
> : > perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a
terrorist
> at
> : > ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but
> soc-called
> : > democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
> : >
> : > what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
> : >
> : > claus
> : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
> : > news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam
> : > : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
> : > :
> : > : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But
it
> : > does
> : > : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion,
> anywhere
> : in
> : > : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the
> : > placing
> : > : of religious artifacts in these places.
> : > :
> : > : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I
> : stated
> : > : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the
> national
> : > : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings,
> including
> : > our
> : > : schools.
> : > :
> : > : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or
> other
> : > dumb
> : > : communist did not write?
> : > :
> : > : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite
> clear.
> : > : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
> : > : Get some books. Read.
> : > :
> : > :
> : > : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message
> : > : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam
> : > : >
> : > : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message
> : > : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam
> : > : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the
> : language
> : > : of
> : > : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from
> : establishing
> : > a
> : > : > > "national" religion.
> : > : > >
> : > : >
> : > : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers
> have
> : > : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery
and
> : > : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the
> : Taliban,
> : > : and
> : > : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian
> : > : fundamentalism.
> : > : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real
> : world
> : > : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for
> granted
> : > in
> : > : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious
> : ones.
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > :
> : > :
> : >
> :
> :
>