AB POLITICS 16 RE OFF TOPIC POLITICS EVOLUTION VERSUS CREATIONISM BEING TAUGHT IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS
From: (nshinede@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:54:19 GMT


Well, Goat, the religions your type are kicking out of our scholls and public places are the same ones that founded our country in the 1700's!

So your basic theses is incorrect!
"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message news:ac30fvsuftf9647cnihalofdhmr4kaa3rh@no-spam > On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:36:47 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >Stange, Goat, that we survived from 1776 until the modern "supremes" as you > >refer to them, decided that we were in danger of a "theocracy" saved only > >by the communists/liberals, and of course the "supremes"!
> >
> The problem is that the world has changed since 1776, that's why the > constitution has been amended several times. For example, there was no > radical religious right before. These people will shamelessly admit > they want political office in order to use the power of the state to > enforce their religious beliefs on those who do not share them.
> There's a reason for separation of church and state and 'no > established religion'. If you think the Falwells and Robertsons could > resist the temptation to act like Iranian Ayatollahs given the chance > you are a lot more trusting than I am.
>
> The former leader of the Reform Party in Canada (in US terms, right > wing republican) was perfectly frank about his wish to do exactly that > when he was a provincial politician.
>
> >I personally could care less, but to remove this stuff from our public > >buildings and parks is just stupid. I grew up in this country, and attended > >public schools, and I never felt intimidated or was never forced to "pray"
> >
> >However as they continue to rewrite our constitution, they now want to > >eliminate the 2nd amendment, our right to keep and bear arms, so their > >spoiled brat liberal kids won't shot their teachers or fellow students in > >one of their temper tantrums. Much better if they took those brats out > >behind the woodshed, and whipped the hell out of them.
> >
> I would rather see the right to keep and arm bears myself, I think a > grizzly could handle an M-60. You don't need an automatic weapon the > hunt deer. The NRA is nuts 'in my opinion', all their mindless attacks > on even the smallest control of firearms means, is that a drug dealing > 14 year olds can mow down rivals and innocent civilians with his > MAC-10.
>
> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message > >news:o4oqevkj97e4giv8f86j9sdb8jidhcvrj1@no-spam > >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:11:37 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Goat; "Off Topic"? Obvisously, I was answering someone else, as have many > >> >others!
> >> >
> >> >Your grasping at straws now, because you have no arguments.
> >>
> >> 1.'Off Topic' is in the name of the thread, I did not start it.
> >>
> >> 2. I was replying to a post you made to "Sharon"
> >>
> >> 3. I removed the little > signs to make clear what you said and what I > >> posted as a response as I think you may have missed something in the > >> thread.
> >>
> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message > >> >news:vmnievs367o0lb5g609ij4u139ljtgqqm2@no-spam > >> >> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:17:08 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Does anyone REALLY contest evolution as a subject anymore?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I think amonst conservatives, you are allowed to study or believe > >> >whatever > >> >> >you will.
> >> >> >
> >> The leftist communist/liberal/socialists are the ones who have > >> rewritten out constitution, removing all references to a God, and all > >> religious writings and acts from our schools, and our public > >> buildings,by the misinterpretation of our constitution.
> >>
> >> Clearly, these socialists et. al. believe they have the exclusive > >> right to degrade and eliminate that with which they disagree from > >> public life.
> >>
> >> I disagree with you and so do the 'Supremes', all they have done is > >> remove the promotion of one religion (Christianity - Protestant > >> flavour only BTW)over another in public settings that are open to > >> persons of all faiths (eg: prayer in schools). This is a small thing > >> compared to the 'clear and present danger' a theocracy would pose to > >> the US. Another reason not to vote for a 'Pat Robertson' type > >> candidate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Sharon" <sharon@no-spam> wrote in message > >> >> >news:3ee79445_2@no-spam > >> >> >> I am troubled by some of the modern-day "Creationist Science"
that > >is > >> >> >going > >> >> >> on, and they would attempt to use this pseudo-science, to harm the > >> >efforts > >> >> >> to give children a real education, including evolution.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> One of the most profound evidences, that I have seen for evolution,
> >was > >> >in > >> >> >> what scientists have unearthed, (even in modern day whales), and > >that > >> >> >being > >> >> >> fossils which establish a link from land mammal to sea mammal. Of > >> >course,
> >> >> >> there are Creationist groups which are at work to attempt to > >discredit > >> >> >what > >> >> >> leading Paleontologists, such as Hans Thewissen have concluded about > >> >> >fossil > >> >> >> finds of early whales.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Edward T. Babinski (Duke Furman University) has produced an > >> >extraordinary > >> >> >> article which is now on the web, concerning hind limbs on whales.
> >Some > >> >> >> creationist scientists have claimed that no photographs exist,
and > >that > >> >> >its > >> >> >> merely a myth invented by evolutionists.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> One of the sources he produced affirmed a 4½ ft. limb found on one > >> >whale.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The article is yet missing one picture which he has yet to send,
> >when > >> >> >done,
> >> >> >> it will be added into the article.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> The myth that transitional fossils do not exist went bust:
> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html > >> >> >> with gratitude to WGBH-Boston/PBS for their contribution.
> >> >> >> (Includes incredible new photographic evidence for whale evolution,
> >> >> >> which various creationist groups have denied existed.)
> >> >> >> homepage at www.skeptical-christian.net > >> >> >> My Kid's Powerpuff Chat site w/lots of classic arcade games > >> >> >> www.bumblebee.wtcsites.com > >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>


From: (nshinede@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT

No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a "national" religion.

The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the schools, in public buildings,
and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous attifacts in these same areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this to a man.

Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support the interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.

The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in recent years is the disinformation you are reading.

You should read some of the original texts written by our founding fathers,
not that socialist trash your quoting from.
"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message news:is6dfv0p2mtpclnls9megl53o0fnknkpnr@no-spam > On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:54:19 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >Well, Goat, the religions your type are kicking out of our scholls and > >public places are the same ones that founded our country in the 1700's!
> >
> >So your basic theses is incorrect!
>
> Now this thinking is exactly why your 'founding fathers' rejected an > 'established religion' and enshrined a separation of church and state > in your constitution. The religions DID NOT 'found your country', in > fact many of the original colonists came to the 'colonies' to escape > religious persecution at home, remember that's why the Puritans (as > only one example) came to what became the USA.
>
> Your country was founded by many like many individuals to "create a > more perfect union", most were nominally followers of one or another > Christian sect but they did not set out to found a theocracy.
>
> If you have proof to the contrary post it. You can't because there is > none, you will now post some obfuscations and insults but as always no > FACTS !
>
> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message > >news:ac30fvsuftf9647cnihalofdhmr4kaa3rh@no-spam > >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:36:47 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Stange, Goat, that we survived from 1776 until the modern "supremes"
as > >you > >> >refer to them, decided that we were in danger of a "theocracy" saved > >only > >> >by the communists/liberals, and of course the "supremes"!
> >> >
> >> The problem is that the world has changed since 1776, that's why the > >> constitution has been amended several times. For example, there was no > >> radical religious right before. These people will shamelessly admit > >> they want political office in order to use the power of the state to > >> enforce their religious beliefs on those who do not share them.
> >> There's a reason for separation of church and state and 'no > >> established religion'. If you think the Falwells and Robertsons could > >> resist the temptation to act like Iranian Ayatollahs given the chance > >> you are a lot more trusting than I am.
> >>
> >> The former leader of the Reform Party in Canada (in US terms, right > >> wing republican) was perfectly frank about his wish to do exactly that > >> when he was a provincial politician.
> >>
> >> >I personally could care less, but to remove this stuff from our public > >> >buildings and parks is just stupid. I grew up in this country, and > >attended > >> >public schools, and I never felt intimidated or was never forced to > >"pray"
> >> >
> >> >However as they continue to rewrite our constitution, they now want to > >> >eliminate the 2nd amendment, our right to keep and bear arms, so their > >> >spoiled brat liberal kids won't shot their teachers or fellow students in > >> >one of their temper tantrums. Much better if they took those brats out > >> >behind the woodshed, and whipped the hell out of them.
> >> >
> >> I would rather see the right to keep and arm bears myself, I think a > >> grizzly could handle an M-60. You don't need an automatic weapon the > >> hunt deer. The NRA is nuts 'in my opinion', all their mindless attacks > >> on even the smallest control of firearms means, is that a drug dealing > >> 14 year olds can mow down rivals and innocent civilians with his > >> MAC-10.
> >>
> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message > >> >news:o4oqevkj97e4giv8f86j9sdb8jidhcvrj1@no-spam > >> >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:11:37 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Goat; "Off Topic"? Obvisously, I was answering someone else, as have > >many > >> >> >others!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Your grasping at straws now, because you have no arguments.
> >> >>
> >> >> 1.'Off Topic' is in the name of the thread, I did not start it.
> >> >>
> >> >> 2. I was replying to a post you made to "Sharon"
> >> >>
> >> >> 3. I removed the little > signs to make clear what you said and what I > >> >> posted as a response as I think you may have missed something in the > >> >> thread.
> >> >>
> >> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message > >> >> >news:vmnievs367o0lb5g609ij4u139ljtgqqm2@no-spam > >> >> >> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:17:08 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam>
wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Does anyone REALLY contest evolution as a subject anymore?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I think amonst conservatives, you are allowed to study or believe > >> >> >whatever > >> >> >> >you will.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> The leftist communist/liberal/socialists are the ones who have > >> >> rewritten out constitution, removing all references to a God, and all > >> >> religious writings and acts from our schools, and our public > >> >> buildings,by the misinterpretation of our constitution.
> >> >>
> >> >> Clearly, these socialists et. al. believe they have the exclusive > >> >> right to degrade and eliminate that with which they disagree from > >> >> public life.
> >> >>
> >> >> I disagree with you and so do the 'Supremes', all they have done is > >> >> remove the promotion of one religion (Christianity - Protestant > >> >> flavour only BTW)over another in public settings that are open to > >> >> persons of all faiths (eg: prayer in schools). This is a small thing > >> >> compared to the 'clear and present danger' a theocracy would pose to > >> >> the US. Another reason not to vote for a 'Pat Robertson' type > >> >> candidate.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Sharon" <sharon@no-spam> wrote in message > >> >> >> >news:3ee79445_2@no-spam > >> >> >> >> I am troubled by some of the modern-day "Creationist Science"
> >that > >> >is > >> >> >> >going > >> >> >> >> on, and they would attempt to use this pseudo-science, to harm > >the > >> >> >efforts > >> >> >> >> to give children a real education, including evolution.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> One of the most profound evidences, that I have seen for > >evolution,
> >> >was > >> >> >in > >> >> >> >> what scientists have unearthed, (even in modern day whales),
and > >> >that > >> >> >> >being > >> >> >> >> fossils which establish a link from land mammal to sea mammal.
Of > >> >> >course,
> >> >> >> >> there are Creationist groups which are at work to attempt to > >> >discredit > >> >> >> >what > >> >> >> >> leading Paleontologists, such as Hans Thewissen have concluded > >about > >> >> >> >fossil > >> >> >> >> finds of early whales.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html > >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Edward T. Babinski (Duke Furman University) has produced an > >> >> >extraordinary > >> >> >> >> article which is now on the web, concerning hind limbs on whales.
> >> >Some > >> >> >> >> creationist scientists have claimed that no photographs exist,
> >and > >> >that > >> >> >> >its > >> >> >> >> merely a myth invented by evolutionists.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> One of the sources he produced affirmed a 4½ ft. limb found on > >one > >> >> >whale.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> The article is yet missing one picture which he has yet to send,
> >> >when > >> >> >> >done,
> >> >> >> >> it will be added into the article.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> The myth that transitional fossils do not exist went bust:
> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html > >> >> >> >> with gratitude to WGBH-Boston/PBS for their contribution.
> >> >> >> >> (Includes incredible new photographic evidence for whale > >evolution,
> >> >> >> >> which various creationist groups have denied existed.)
> >> >> >> >> homepage at www.skeptical-christian.net > >> >> >> >> My Kid's Powerpuff Chat site w/lots of classic arcade games > >> >> >> >> www.bumblebee.wtcsites.com > >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
>


From: "Reason" (peterJ@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:58:00 GMT

<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a > "national" religion.
>

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban, and Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian fundamentalism.
Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted in our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.


From: "santa" (santa@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:27:07 -0400

"Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam :
: <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message : news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam : > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of : > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a : > "national" religion.
: >
:
: Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have : recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and : hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban,
and : Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian fundamentalism.
: Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world : without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted in : our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
:
:
:
Reason,
Are you suggesting that USA is going to tank due to its born-again government?

claus

From: Mountain Goat (rmgoatNO@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:17:39 GMT

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:

>No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of >the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a >"national" religion.
>
Quite true.
>
>The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the schools, in >public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous attifacts in these same
>areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this to a >man.
>
>Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support the >interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
>
>The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in recent >years is the disinformation you are reading.
>
Since those words were written there have been many changes to the society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit the society of the present.
>You should read some of the original texts written by our founding fathers,
>not that socialist trash your quoting from.
>
ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting from"? It's the US constitution.

>"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message >news:is6dfv0p2mtpclnls9megl53o0fnknkpnr@no-spam >> On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:54:19 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>>
>> >Well, Goat, the religions your type are kicking out of our scholls and >> >public places are the same ones that founded our country in the 1700's!
>> >
>> >So your basic theses is incorrect!
>>
>> Now this thinking is exactly why your 'founding fathers' rejected an >> 'established religion' and enshrined a separation of church and state >> in your constitution. The religions DID NOT 'found your country', in >> fact many of the original colonists came to the 'colonies' to escape >> religious persecution at home, remember that's why the Puritans (as >> only one example) came to what became the USA.
>>
>> Your country was founded by many like many individuals to "create a >> more perfect union", most were nominally followers of one or another >> Christian sect but they did not set out to found a theocracy.
>>
>> If you have proof to the contrary post it. You can't because there is >> none, you will now post some obfuscations and insults but as always no >> FACTS !
>>
>> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message >> >news:ac30fvsuftf9647cnihalofdhmr4kaa3rh@no-spam >> >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:36:47 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Stange, Goat, that we survived from 1776 until the modern "supremes"
>as >> >you >> >> >refer to them, decided that we were in danger of a "theocracy" saved >> >only >> >> >by the communists/liberals, and of course the "supremes"!
>> >> >
>> >> The problem is that the world has changed since 1776, that's why the >> >> constitution has been amended several times. For example, there was no >> >> radical religious right before. These people will shamelessly admit >> >> they want political office in order to use the power of the state to >> >> enforce their religious beliefs on those who do not share them.
>> >> There's a reason for separation of church and state and 'no >> >> established religion'. If you think the Falwells and Robertsons could >> >> resist the temptation to act like Iranian Ayatollahs given the chance >> >> you are a lot more trusting than I am.
>> >>
>> >> The former leader of the Reform Party in Canada (in US terms, right >> >> wing republican) was perfectly frank about his wish to do exactly that >> >> when he was a provincial politician.
>> >>
>> >> >I personally could care less, but to remove this stuff from our public >> >> >buildings and parks is just stupid. I grew up in this country, and >> >attended >> >> >public schools, and I never felt intimidated or was never forced to >> >"pray"
>> >> >
>> >> >However as they continue to rewrite our constitution, they now want to >> >> >eliminate the 2nd amendment, our right to keep and bear arms, so their >> >> >spoiled brat liberal kids won't shot their teachers or fellow students >in >> >> >one of their temper tantrums. Much better if they took those brats out >> >> >behind the woodshed, and whipped the hell out of them.
>> >> >
>> >> I would rather see the right to keep and arm bears myself, I think a >> >> grizzly could handle an M-60. You don't need an automatic weapon the >> >> hunt deer. The NRA is nuts 'in my opinion', all their mindless attacks >> >> on even the smallest control of firearms means, is that a drug dealing >> >> 14 year olds can mow down rivals and innocent civilians with his >> >> MAC-10.
>> >>
>> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message >> >> >news:o4oqevkj97e4giv8f86j9sdb8jidhcvrj1@no-spam >> >> >> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:11:37 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Goat; "Off Topic"? Obvisously, I was answering someone else, as >have >> >many >> >> >> >others!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Your grasping at straws now, because you have no arguments.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1.'Off Topic' is in the name of the thread, I did not start it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2. I was replying to a post you made to "Sharon"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 3. I removed the little > signs to make clear what you said and what >I >> >> >> posted as a response as I think you may have missed something in the >> >> >> thread.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message >> >> >> >news:vmnievs367o0lb5g609ij4u139ljtgqqm2@no-spam >> >> >> >> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:17:08 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam>
>wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Does anyone REALLY contest evolution as a subject anymore?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I think amonst conservatives, you are allowed to study or >believe >> >> >> >whatever >> >> >> >> >you will.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> The leftist communist/liberal/socialists are the ones who have >> >> >> rewritten out constitution, removing all references to a God, and >all >> >> >> religious writings and acts from our schools, and our public >> >> >> buildings,by the misinterpretation of our constitution.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Clearly, these socialists et. al. believe they have the exclusive >> >> >> right to degrade and eliminate that with which they disagree from >> >> >> public life.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I disagree with you and so do the 'Supremes', all they have done is >> >> >> remove the promotion of one religion (Christianity - Protestant >> >> >> flavour only BTW)over another in public settings that are open to >> >> >> persons of all faiths (eg: prayer in schools). This is a small thing >> >> >> compared to the 'clear and present danger' a theocracy would pose to >> >> >> the US. Another reason not to vote for a 'Pat Robertson' type >> >> >> candidate.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >"Sharon" <sharon@no-spam> wrote in message >> >> >> >> >news:3ee79445_2@no-spam >> >> >> >> >> I am troubled by some of the modern-day "Creationist Science"
>> >that >> >> >is >> >> >> >> >going >> >> >> >> >> on, and they would attempt to use this pseudo-science, to harm >> >the >> >> >> >efforts >> >> >> >> >> to give children a real education, including evolution.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> One of the most profound evidences, that I have seen for >> >evolution,
>> >> >was >> >> >> >in >> >> >> >> >> what scientists have unearthed, (even in modern day whales),
>and >> >> >that >> >> >> >> >being >> >> >> >> >> fossils which establish a link from land mammal to sea mammal.
>Of >> >> >> >course,
>> >> >> >> >> there are Creationist groups which are at work to attempt to >> >> >discredit >> >> >> >> >what >> >> >> >> >> leading Paleontologists, such as Hans Thewissen have concluded >> >about >> >> >> >> >fossil >> >> >> >> >> finds of early whales.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Edward T. Babinski (Duke Furman University) has produced an >> >> >> >extraordinary >> >> >> >> >> article which is now on the web, concerning hind limbs on >whales.
>> >> >Some >> >> >> >> >> creationist scientists have claimed that no photographs exist,
>> >and >> >> >that >> >> >> >> >its >> >> >> >> >> merely a myth invented by evolutionists.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> One of the sources he produced affirmed a 4½ ft. limb found on >> >one >> >> >> >whale.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The article is yet missing one picture which he has yet to >send,
>> >> >when >> >> >> >> >done,
>> >> >> >> >> it will be added into the article.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> The myth that transitional fossils do not exist went bust:
>> >> >> >> >> http://babinski.skeptical-christian.net/whale_evolution.html >> >> >> >> >> with gratitude to WGBH-Boston/PBS for their contribution.
>> >> >> >> >> (Includes incredible new photographic evidence for whale >> >evolution,
>> >> >> >> >> which various creationist groups have denied existed.)
>> >> >> >> >> homepage at www.skeptical-christian.net >> >> >> >> >> My Kid's Powerpuff Chat site w/lots of classic arcade games >> >> >> >> >> www.bumblebee.wtcsites.com >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>


From: "Robin" (robinandtami@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:52:30 GMT

<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message news:PnCJa.1889$xv.1695@no-spam > Well, one babtist minister was probably tired of the constant attacks of > thousands of leftists.
>
> When you strat a fight, you have to expect to get hit a few times, and this > fight was not started by any "religious" group, it was started by some > socialist, liberal, leftist, (It's very hard to use all the false names you > people apply to yourselves) groups who do not believe in religion, in > accordance with their basic communist dictates.
>

You asked for the proof, I gave you the proof, then you back step to try to justify it. And who said I didn't belive in religion? Agreeing with the constitution doesn't make one an atheist. Maybe I think that a parent should be responsible for a child's religious upbringing. A Hindu American citizen pays taxes, yet his tax dollars aren't put towards providing his children with a Hindu education. Why should a Christian citizen receive benefits that citizens of other religions do not receive?

Robin

From: (nshinede@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:59:50 GMT

Again, Robin, our constitution does NOT proscribe religion in public places,
nor did our forefathers. It proscribes the STATE support of any particular religion over others.

The leftist liers have managed in recent years, through our supreme court judges appointed by leftist presidents, to gain decisions reinterpreting our constitution to support the communist belief that all religion is bad, and must be discouraged by government action.

You should do some reading of the ORIGINAL debates by our forefathers, and their ORIGINAL writings and practices, for the truth here.

As I said in the very beginning of this debate, this ain't my argument, and I could care less if your an atheist or not.

But as a practicing liberal, on any subject, your concern with who gets "benefits" from the government is telling. The Government, in leftist terms, can be defined simply as a giver of unearned "rights" and unearned "benefits," taken from the labor of others.

So far as I concerned, you can all earn your own living. My tax money should not go to a buch of lazy leftist bums for "benefits" for anything.
"Robin" <robinandtami@no-spam> wrote in message news:2BqKa.20143$Ab2.40085@no-spam >
> <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message > news:PnCJa.1889$xv.1695@no-spam > > Well, one babtist minister was probably tired of the constant attacks of > > thousands of leftists.
> >
> > When you strat a fight, you have to expect to get hit a few times, and > this > > fight was not started by any "religious" group, it was started by some > > socialist, liberal, leftist, (It's very hard to use all the false names > you > > people apply to yourselves) groups who do not believe in religion, in > > accordance with their basic communist dictates.
> >
>
>
> You asked for the proof, I gave you the proof, then you back step to try to > justify it. And who said I didn't belive in religion? Agreeing with the > constitution doesn't make one an atheist. Maybe I think that a parent > should be responsible for a child's religious upbringing. A Hindu American > citizen pays taxes, yet his tax dollars aren't put towards providing his > children with a Hindu education. Why should a Christian citizen receive > benefits that citizens of other religions do not receive?
>
> Robin >
>


From: "santa" (santa@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:53:07 -0400

"Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message news:cr3ifvsj0unirdv8pmnpait5qmiaslpipm@no-spam : On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
:
: >No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of : >the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a : >"national" religion.
: >
: Quite true.
: >
: >The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the schools,
in : >public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous attifacts in these same : >areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this to a : >man.
: >
: >Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support the : >interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
: >
: >The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in recent : >years is the disinformation you are reading.
: >
: Since those words were written there have been many changes to the : society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no : longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a : hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written : for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and : Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were : appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal : again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few : number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One : reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit : the society of the present.
:
: >You should read some of the original texts written by our founding fathers,
: >not that socialist trash your quoting from.
: >
: ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here : is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:
:
: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect : union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the : common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings : of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish : this Constitution for the United States of America."
:
: Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting : from"? It's the US constitution.
:
:
goat,
I've taken the liberty of shortening the post to what I consider relevant.
Well said. nshi is just a cutup and funny person. He tries to provoke and thinks FOX network is a great source of news, which may be true if you like The Simpsons or South park which I do. I also think Jon Stewart is funny but then according to the great psychiatric diagnostician Terry Pearson I'm to use his scientific term "wacko".
As you probably know I live north of the great lakes but do get a lot of info on US politics and am fascinated by it.
You're right about the constitution its a great document and seems to have changed little in over 200 years. Only time will tell if this is good especially in light of the events of the past 20 years. The sad thing is that an apathy seems to have set in that permits ambitious groups to erode the rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed by it.
The Supreme court is a brilliant check on excesses of the executive branch but seems to be slowly becoming partisan in its outlook although this was true during days past with Warren (backfired), Marshall, Frankfurter to name a few.
From my side of the border America 's great convulsions over religion in government is looked on in wonder . Most of the rest of the world has gotten past theocratic vs. secular government although countries where Islam is present seem to be in trouble.


From: "santa" (santa@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:08:14 -0400

Nshi,
you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America has a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that not what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of flavours but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles inserted in their nether regions?
What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without a perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist at ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but soc-called democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.

what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?

claus <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
:
: Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it does : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion, anywhere in : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the placing : of religious artifacts in these places.
:
: This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I stated : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings, including our : schools.
:
: Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other dumb : communist did not write?
:
: I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
: You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
: Get some books. Read.
:
:
: "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam : >
: > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language : of : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a : > > "national" religion.
: > >
: >
: > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban,
: and : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian : fundamentalism.
: > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted in : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
: >
: >
: >
:
:


From: "santa" (santa@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:24:45 -0400

Reason,
I still question the motives stated for the so-called separation of church and state. My observation of politicians over the years is that most if not all of them would prostitute their mothers in an effort to get their feet in the public trough. Altruism has never been the primary motive in fact the opposite, self-interest is the driving force. Beside god is plastered throughout the country in the currency in oaths and it is continually being invoked by the President. There is little doubt that these references are to certainly a christian and perhaps Judaic god.
claus "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message news:kfNKa.299879$ro6.7423257@no-spam : The separation of church and state is not merely about allowing you the : freedom to practice the religion of your choice, that's the simplistic view : you learned in grade school. The founding fathers of the US constitution : fully recognized the hazards of theocratic governments that had led to the : English civil war over a century before. They wisely realized that keeping : religion out of government was necessary for maintaining freedoms of : expression and the pursuit of happiness.
:
:
: "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message : news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam : > Nshi,
: > you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America : has : > a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that : not : > what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of : > church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of flavours : > but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles : inserted : > in their nether regions?
: > What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist : > politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least : > dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without a : > perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist at : > ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but soc-called : > democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
: >
: > what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
: >
: > claus : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message : > news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam : > : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
: > :
: > : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it : > does : > : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion,
anywhere : in : > : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the : > placing : > : of religious artifacts in these places.
: > :
: > : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I : stated : > : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national : > : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings,
including : > our : > : schools.
: > :
: > : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other : > dumb : > : communist did not write?
: > :
: > : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
: > : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
: > : Get some books. Read.
: > :
: > :
: > : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message : > : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam : > : >
: > : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message : > : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam : > : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the : language : > : of : > : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from : establishing : > a : > : > > "national" religion.
: > : > >
: > : >
: > : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have : > : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and : > : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the : Taliban,
: > : and : > : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian : > : fundamentalism.
: > : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real : world : > : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted : > in : > : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious : ones.
: > : >
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
:
:


From: (nshinede@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:23:53 GMT

Hi again, Santa!

Once again, you Canadians seem to think you know more of our government and our constitution than we do!

Well, you just don't. Under our constitution, we are free to practice any religion we choose.
The argument amonst US, is weither we can do it in publicly owned places.
Thats all.

So I guess we don't need your interpretatoion nor your advice.

What religion any of you do or do not practice is none of my concren, and I certainly would not presume to tell you what you should do.
Only communists demand you give up religion.
"santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message news:qNDKa.2727$Ab1.22592@no-spam >
> "Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message > news:cr3ifvsj0unirdv8pmnpait5qmiaslpipm@no-spam > : On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
> :
> : >No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language of > : >the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a > : >"national" religion.
> : >
> : Quite true.
> : >
> : >The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the schools,
> in > : >public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous > attifacts in these same > : >areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation, this > to a > : >man.
> : >
> : >Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support > the > : >interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
> : >
> : >The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in > recent > : >years is the disinformation you are reading.
> : >
> : Since those words were written there have been many changes to the > : society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no > : longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a > : hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written > : for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and > : Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were > : appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal > : again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few > : number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One > : reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit > : the society of the present.
> :
> : >You should read some of the original texts written by our founding > fathers,
> : >not that socialist trash your quoting from.
> : >
> : ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here > : is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:
> :
> : "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect > : union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the > : common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings > : of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish > : this Constitution for the United States of America."
> :
> : Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting > : from"? It's the US constitution.
> :
> :
> goat,
> I've taken the liberty of shortening the post to what I consider relevant.
> Well said. nshi is just a cutup and funny person. He tries to provoke and > thinks FOX network is a great source of news, which may be true if you like > The Simpsons or South park which I do. I also think Jon Stewart is funny > but then according to the great psychiatric diagnostician Terry Pearson I'm > to use his scientific term "wacko".
> As you probably know I live north of the great lakes but do get a lot of > info on US politics and am fascinated by it.
> You're right about the constitution its a great document and seems to have > changed little in over 200 years. Only time will tell if this is good > especially in light of the events of the past 20 years. The sad thing is > that an apathy seems to have set in that permits ambitious groups to erode > the rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed by it.
> The Supreme court is a brilliant check on excesses of the executive branch > but seems to be slowly becoming partisan in its outlook although this was > true during days past with Warren (backfired), Marshall, Frankfurter to name > a few.
> From my side of the border America 's great convulsions over religion in > government is looked on in wonder . Most of the rest of the world has > gotten past theocratic vs. secular government although countries where Islam > is present seem to be in trouble.
>


From: "frédérick johnson" (frederick.johnson@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:08:30 -0400

Have you ever read the Bible? It is leftist and Jesus was an anarchist.

Fred
<nshinede@no-spam> a écrit dans le message de news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam > Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
>
> Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it does > NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion, anywhere in > our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the placing > of religious artifacts in these places.
>
> This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I stated > before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national > practice to practice religion in public places and buildings, including our > schools.
>
> Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other dumb > communist did not write?
>
> I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
> You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
> Get some books. Read.
>
>
> "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message > news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam > >
> > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam > > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language > of > > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing a > > > "national" religion.
> > >
> >
> > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have > > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and > > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban,
> and > > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian > fundamentalism.
> > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world > > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted in > > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
> >
> >
> >
>
>


From: "Robin" (robinandtami@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 02:31:58 GMT

<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message news:q%CKa.4855$xv.2375@no-spam
> So far as I concerned, you can all earn your own living. My tax money should > not go to a buch of lazy leftist bums for "benefits" for anything.
> "Robin" <robinandtami@no-spam> wrote in message
Everyone in America "benefits" from the things their tax dollars pay for.
Sanitation, police, fire, roads, you name it. I just don't see why a Buddhist would care to "benefit" from having the ten commanments hung over a judge's bench.


From: "santa" (santa@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:23:46 -0400

nshi,
You're cutting up again! "weather we can do it in publicly owned places.
That's all." is BS. I'll bet I know more about US politics and history than you know about Canadian. Why not stop gainsaying me and at least attempt to prove your assertion?
US does have a state religion its called christianity which in the scheme of things is not number one in terms of professed followers in the world's religions. I read some where that George W. as governor of Texas proclaimed one day as Jesus day when he was in office there. Is that true?
US may not need advice but it needs something. US is becoming identified as the world's bully and political idiot.
BTW you remembered correctly I've never been in the military but I've had lots of exposure to them one way and another. Not a nice lot generally.
I've just heard snippets of the report produced regard sexual predation at the US Air Force Academy. Not really much of a recommendation about US morality. I don't give a shit who sodomizes who as long as they're consenting but rape is a nasty business and the herd mentality is almost as bad.

You should get your shit together on the differences between communism and bolshevism, they're not the same thing.

It's yellow elevated today I hear claus
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message news:JB2La.3933$ND.395@no-spam : Hi again, Santa!
:
: Once again, you Canadians seem to think you know more of our government and : our constitution than we do!
:
: Well, you just don't. Under our constitution, we are free to practice any : religion we choose.
: The argument amonst US, is weither we can do it in publicly owned places.
: Thats all.
:
: So I guess we don't need your interpretatoion nor your advice.
:
: What religion any of you do or do not practice is none of my concren, and I : certainly would not presume to tell you what you should do.
: Only communists demand you give up religion.
: "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message : news:qNDKa.2727$Ab1.22592@no-spam : >
: > "Mountain Goat" <rmgoatNO@no-spam> wrote in message : > news:cr3ifvsj0unirdv8pmnpait5qmiaslpipm@no-spam : > : On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:28:05 GMT, <nshinede@no-spam> wrote:
: > :
: > : >No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language : of : > : >the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing : a : > : >"national" religion.
: > : >
: > : Quite true.
: > : >
: > : >The "founding fathers," allowed religion to be practiced in the : schools,
: > in : > : >public buildings, and actually anywhere. They also allowed religous : > attifacts in these same : > : >areas, while they lived, and they saw no constitutional violation,
this : > to a : > : >man.
: > : >
: > : >Since they wrote our constitution, their practice should fully support : > the : > : >interpretation we traditionally followed for going on 200 years.
: > : >
: > : >The reinterpretation of these words by our liberals and leftists in : > recent : > : >years is the disinformation you are reading.
: > : >
: > : Since those words were written there have been many changes to the : > : society of the US. As many Americans like to point out you are no : > : longer 13 sparsely populated colonies along the Atlantic with a : > : hostile western frontier. Yet that is what the document was written : > : for. Many things commonplace at that time are no more, Washington and : > : Jefferson owned slaves. Women could not vote until 1920, Senators were : > : appointed by state governments, Alcohol was prohibited, then legal : > : again. The surprising thing about the US constitution is the few : > : number of changes it has had over the 200+ years it's been around. One : > : reason is that the courts find ways to interpret it in a way to suit : > : the society of the present.
: > :
: > : >You should read some of the original texts written by our founding : > fathers,
: > : >not that socialist trash your quoting from.
: > : >
: > : ROTFL, you really don't know where that quote came from do you? Here : > : is the rest of the sentence I quoted from:
: > :
: > : "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect : > : union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the : > : common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings : > : of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish : > : this Constitution for the United States of America."
: > :
: > : Now do recognize, to use your words "that socialist trash your quoting : > : from"? It's the US constitution.
: > :
: > :
: > goat,
: > I've taken the liberty of shortening the post to what I consider relevant.
: > Well said. nshi is just a cutup and funny person. He tries to provoke : and : > thinks FOX network is a great source of news, which may be true if you : like : > The Simpsons or South park which I do. I also think Jon Stewart is funny : > but then according to the great psychiatric diagnostician Terry Pearson : I'm : > to use his scientific term "wacko".
: > As you probably know I live north of the great lakes but do get a lot of : > info on US politics and am fascinated by it.
: > You're right about the constitution its a great document and seems to have : > changed little in over 200 years. Only time will tell if this is good : > especially in light of the events of the past 20 years. The sad thing is : > that an apathy seems to have set in that permits ambitious groups to erode : > the rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed by it.
: > The Supreme court is a brilliant check on excesses of the executive branch : > but seems to be slowly becoming partisan in its outlook although this was : > true during days past with Warren (backfired), Marshall, Frankfurter to : name : > a few.
: > From my side of the border America 's great convulsions over religion in : > government is looked on in wonder . Most of the rest of the world has : > gotten past theocratic vs. secular government although countries where : Islam : > is present seem to be in trouble.
: >
:
:


From: (nshinede@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:08:57 GMT

Santa! Me thinks your STILL mad!

Most of our people are Christian. No doubt about that. But we have every religion on earth, fully recognized here. THAT is EXACTLY what the constitution requires!

What does that hurt? We aren't running concentration camps to burn up any of them.
We all live together.

And ANY of them should have the right to practice their faith in public areas and buildings!

What should our public offiers do? Have a generic bible?? I think not.

Now the red menace. Which WAS and IS communism, under several of its many names,
is dead. It still exists in places like Cuba, or North Korea, but this will pass.

China! The Chinese are smart people. They looked at communism, and said,
"Hay! This ain't working" They are rapidly becoming a capitalist dictatorship, Santa. They bought right into "globalization" of our economies, and they are taking our industry as quickly as they can sign the contracts. Hugh Industries are moving to China.

Once they are ready, they will say to us all,
"Screw you, we got the buildings, we got the work, we got the machine tools,
shut Wall Street down, now, were coming for your wives!"

Terrorists? I hope they like you, santa. Fill their stockings!
"santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam > Nshi,
> you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America has > a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that not > what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of > church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of flavours > but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles inserted > in their nether regions?
> What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist > politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least > dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without a > perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist at > ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but soc-called > democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
>
> what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
>
> claus > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message > news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam > : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
> :
> : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it > does > : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion, anywhere in > : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the > placing > : of religious artifacts in these places.
> :
> : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I stated > : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national > : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings, including > our > : schools.
> :
> : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other > dumb > : communist did not write?
> :
> : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
> : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
> : Get some books. Read.
> :
> :
> : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message > : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam > : >
> : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message > : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam > : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the language > : of > : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from establishing > a > : > > "national" religion.
> : > >
> : >
> : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have > : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and > : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the Taliban,
> : and > : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian > : fundamentalism.
> : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real world > : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted > in > : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious ones.
> : >
> : >
> : >
> :
> :
>


From: "santa" (santa@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:10:03 -0400

Nshi,
US may have every religion on earth but I'll bet money that every public avowed or suspected Moslem is on someone's security file right now. How long before more camps go up?
Spare me about Cuba. US's dealings with Cuba are shameful. Forty years later and the bully is still pissed about the bay of pigs and the take over of private property. What's happening in Iraq is US going to force Iraq to pay for being bombed? Talk about Christian charity.
Can't you understand that communism is not the same as Bolshevism, there's some of each doctrine in both but they're not the same. Red is a colour and so is blue but just because share an attribute doesn't make them the same.
Apply some simple logic.
US is running a camp, its called Gitmo. Federal penitentiaries are similar,
nacht und nebel is in effect.
Can't US ever ease up on "the Constitution says...." shtick? It was written over 2000 years ago by a bunch of guys who had their own interests in mind. It has many lines which are still valid but its like Torah it needs interpretation and customizing to fit today's world.

you have a nice day claus
<nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message news:ZjhLa.5532$xv.1497@no-spam : Santa! Me thinks your STILL mad!
:
: Most of our people are Christian. No doubt about that. But we have every : religion on earth, fully recognized here. THAT is EXACTLY what the : constitution requires!
:
: What does that hurt? We aren't running concentration camps to burn up any of : them.
: We all live together.
:
: And ANY of them should have the right to practice their faith in public : areas and buildings!
:
: What should our public offiers do? Have a generic bible?? I think not.
:
: Now the red menace. Which WAS and IS communism, under several of its many : names,
: is dead. It still exists in places like Cuba, or North Korea, but this will : pass.
:
: China! The Chinese are smart people. They looked at communism, and said,
: "Hay! This ain't working" They are rapidly becoming a capitalist : dictatorship, Santa. They bought right into "globalization" of our : economies, and they are taking our industry as quickly as they can sign the : contracts. Hugh Industries are moving to China.
:
: Once they are ready, they will say to us all,
: "Screw you, we got the buildings, we got the work, we got the machine tools,
: shut Wall Street down, now, were coming for your wives!"
:
: Terrorists? I hope they like you, santa. Fill their stockings!
: "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message : news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam : > Nshi,
: > you should look around you the constitution has been subverted, America : has : > a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that : not : > what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of : > church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of flavours : > but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles : inserted : > in their nether regions?
: > What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist : > politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least : > dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without a : > perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist at : > ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but soc-called : > democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
: >
: > what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
: >
: > claus : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message : > news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam : > : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
: > :
: > : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it : > does : > : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion,
anywhere : in : > : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the : > placing : > : of religious artifacts in these places.
: > :
: > : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I : stated : > : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the national : > : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings,
including : > our : > : schools.
: > :
: > : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or other : > dumb : > : communist did not write?
: > :
: > : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite clear.
: > : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
: > : Get some books. Read.
: > :
: > :
: > : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message : > : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam : > : >
: > : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message : > : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam : > : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the : language : > : of : > : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from : establishing : > a : > : > > "national" religion.
: > : > >
: > : >
: > : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers have : > : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and : > : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the : Taliban,
: > : and : > : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian : > : fundamentalism.
: > : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real : world : > : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for granted : > in : > : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious : ones.
: > : >
: > : >
: > : >
: > :
: > :
: >
:
:


From: (nshinede@no-spam)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC politics: Evolution versus Creationism being taught in the public schools?
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:39:06 GMT

Santa! All this emotion!

Wheres your proof? your evidence? your facts that you liberals always demand of us?

Since the ONLY people who have blown us away are Arabs, don't you think it's just common sense to be a little afraid of them?
Come on, Santa! use reason, common sense,not emotion!

Bay of pigs? Done under a democart President? Well, Cuba is a total joke in the face of humanity. I'm glad Castro is still in power, because he demonstrates how silly and yet dangerous you people really are. Somebody ever think of giving Castro a bath, or a shave? Or charging him with mass murder?

No, the US won't ask Iraq to pay. But I certainly would, if it were in my power. I would take enough of their damned oil to pay for all our suffering.
Then I'd take enougth to pay for each and every American soul lost. Hell, I might take the whole contry, and REALLY become "expansionist and an Empire"!

Communism and Bolshevisim. Santa! I know you never served your country (Rejected??)
but the difference is not in those old books.
The difference is between who butt stroked and who bayonetted. In other words, who won. "Ideas" were for the "useless idiots" like you. The communists happened to win in Russia. The Bolshevists would have produced the same shameful results.There was no difference.

"Doctrines?" Simply put, bull shit. Those bastards would have written anything to gain power. They would have "believed" and shouted, anything, to gain power. They believed in nothing, but personal power. They were exactly,
just like Aldolf Hitler, but much more deadly and evil than Hitler.

You sit and read those trashy old bolshevick books, Santa. I'll read something better.

Santa, I spent my youth in Germany. I know many Germans. Nacht u. Nebel?
Here? Your just either emotional or too stupid to know the difference.

The constitution was written 200, not 2000 years ago, but unlike you, I will not accuse you of misspelling nor of being stupid.

Of couse, it was written by "guys who had there own self interest in mind"
Whatever in human history, was not?? Only you communists and liberals think you are different from humanity. You are always better than us, in your minds.AFTER the fact.

Now, after I read your other comics, and respond, I'm on vacation!

Merry Christmas!

"santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message news:MEWLa.3580$Ab1.27073@no-spam > Nshi,
> US may have every religion on earth but I'll bet money that every public > avowed or suspected Moslem is on someone's security file right now. How > long before more camps go up?
> Spare me about Cuba. US's dealings with Cuba are shameful. Forty years > later and the bully is still pissed about the bay of pigs and the take over > of private property. What's happening in Iraq is US going to force Iraq to > pay for being bombed? Talk about Christian charity.
> Can't you understand that communism is not the same as Bolshevism, there's > some of each doctrine in both but they're not the same. Red is a colour and > so is blue but just because share an attribute doesn't make them the same.
> Apply some simple logic.
> US is running a camp, its called Gitmo. Federal penitentiaries are similar,
> nacht und nebel is in effect.
> Can't US ever ease up on "the Constitution says...." shtick? It was > written over 2000 years ago by a bunch of guys who had their own interests > in mind. It has many lines which are still valid but its like Torah it > needs interpretation and customizing to fit today's world.
>
> you have a nice day > claus >
>
> <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message > news:ZjhLa.5532$xv.1497@no-spam > : Santa! Me thinks your STILL mad!
> :
> : Most of our people are Christian. No doubt about that. But we have every > : religion on earth, fully recognized here. THAT is EXACTLY what the > : constitution requires!
> :
> : What does that hurt? We aren't running concentration camps to burn up any > of > : them.
> : We all live together.
> :
> : And ANY of them should have the right to practice their faith in public > : areas and buildings!
> :
> : What should our public offiers do? Have a generic bible?? I think not.
> :
> : Now the red menace. Which WAS and IS communism, under several of its many > : names,
> : is dead. It still exists in places like Cuba, or North Korea, but this > will > : pass.
> :
> : China! The Chinese are smart people. They looked at communism, and said,
> : "Hay! This ain't working" They are rapidly becoming a capitalist > : dictatorship, Santa. They bought right into "globalization" of our > : economies, and they are taking our industry as quickly as they can sign > the > : contracts. Hugh Industries are moving to China.
> :
> : Once they are ready, they will say to us all,
> : "Screw you, we got the buildings, we got the work, we got the machine > tools,
> : shut Wall Street down, now, were coming for your wives!"
> :
> : Terrorists? I hope they like you, santa. Fill their stockings!
> : "santa" <santa@no-spam> wrote in message > : news:B%DKa.2730$Ab1.22762@no-spam > : > Nshi,
> : > you should look around you the constitution has been subverted,
America > : has > : > a state religion apparently, Christianity I believe its called. Is that > : not > : > what all the references to god and christ are about? The separation of > : > church and state is slowly being eroded. It comes in a variety of > flavours > : > but do does ice-cream.Doesn't Mr Ashcroft and George W. have bibles > : inserted > : > in their nether regions?
> : > What is fuelling your paranoia about left-wing and so called communist > : > politics? The red menace(which was not communism) is dead or at least > : > dormant until China can get up to speed. What would America do without > a > : > perceived threat to get everyone to huddle together? Isn't a terrorist > at > : > ever embassy gate enough? Communism doesn't appear to work but > soc-called > : > democracy seem to be getting pretty sick too.
> : >
> : > what's today's color code still yellow elevated? National jaundice eh?
> : >
> : > claus > : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message > : > news:e4hKa.4704$xv.3426@no-spam > : > : Reason; You obviously did not read what I wrote.
> : > :
> : > : Our constitution forbids the establishment of a state religion. But it > : > does > : > : NOT, and never did, forbid religious practice by any religion,
> anywhere > : in > : > : our country, in our schools or public places, nor did it forbid the > : > placing > : > : of religious artifacts in these places.
> : > :
> : > : This was NOT the meaning of "separation of church and state" and I > : stated > : > : before, during the lifetime of our founding fathers it was the > national > : > : practice to practice religion in public places and buildings,
> including > : > our > : > : schools.
> : > :
> : > : Have you people EVER read anything that some leftist news hack or > other > : > dumb > : > : communist did not write?
> : > :
> : > : I know you obviously have never studied these issues. Thats quite > clear.
> : > : You are a perfect example of the "dumbing down" of America.
> : > : Get some books. Read.
> : > :
> : > :
> : > : "Reason" <peterJ@no-spam> wrote in message > : > : news:Ii0Ka.272422$3C2.7902308@no-spam > : > : >
> : > : > <nshinede@no-spam> wrote in message > : > : > news:VdZJa.3907$xv.1488@no-spam > : > : > > No, goat, "the separation of church and state, written in the > : language > : > : of > : > : > > the time, was simply intended to prevent the "state" from > : establishing > : > a > : > : > > "national" religion.
> : > : > >
> : > : >
> : > : > Wrong, wrong, wrong. Since the renaissance, progressive thinkers > have > : > : > recognized the value of secular governments. Witness the misery and > : > : > hardship that is invariably evident in such theocracies as the > : Taliban,
> : > : and > : > : > Europe in the Dark Ages shortly after the rise of Christian > : > : fundamentalism.
> : > : > Very few religious instutions can function effectively in the real > : world > : > : > without being secular. Nearly all the good things we take for > granted > : > in > : > : > our civilization today are due to secular endeavors, not religious > : ones.
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > : >
> : > :
> : > :
> : >
> :
> :
>