AUS AVIATION 26 HOW MUCH WEIGHT IS THE PAINT ON A 747
From: "Joe Pestana" (anaqual@no-spam)
Subject: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:59:12 +0800


G'day all
We were discussing the various MTOWs of the heavies and the question of how much the average paint job on a 747 would weigh came up. I guessed at around 3 tonnes but could anyone enlighten?

Cheers
Joe














From: "john" (rescue999@no-spam)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:56:33 +1000

according to the national geo show recently.... "100 gallons" of paint to paint a Luftansa 400


Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:02:06 +1000
From: David Bromage (dbromage@no-spam)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747

Ben Matthes wrote:
> speaking of weight, I was told the other day that depeleted uranium is > often used as counter-weights in flying surface controls in modern > airliners, anyone heard of this practice before?

Yes, DU is routinely used in civilian aircraft and ships. A crashed aircraft tends to burn a lot longer than an anti-tank slug, hence inhalation of uranium dust near a crash site would tend to be more likely than on the battlefield.

Cheers David

From: ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor Fenn)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:22:52 -0000

b--.--..-.--@no-spam (Ben Matthes) wrote in <ivcigvohqqaais6udvoecm4sngqqq71o6a@no-spam>:
>Hello David and all,
>
>speaking of weight, I was told the other day that depeleted uranium is >often used as counter-weights in flying surface controls in modern >airliners, anyone heard of this practice before?
>
>:-)
>TIA >Ben.
>

yes
-- Trevor Fenn There are too many zz's in my email address above.
Take two zz's and email me in the morning.

"Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just"
The Star Spangled Banner Francis Scott Key

Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
From: GB (gb@no-spam)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 18:44:29 +1000

Ben Matthes <b--.--..-.--@no-spam> wrote in news:gb0lgvc8gvb4fvqoicjfbga2rsmvo08lrm@no-spam > On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:22:52 -0000, ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor > Fenn) a man of few words, wrote:
> yes you have heard it before?

For what little it's worth, I sat down with a calculometer one day, at about the time we were discussing the relative ability of VH-OJB and one of the new ERs to carry the 'Wunala Dreaming' livery. I applied the highly scientific process of assuming that a B747 was a cylinder of the diameter that a B747 actually is just aft of the wing root, searched the net for coverage reccomendations for Taubmans Extra Gloss Enamel something-or-other, assumed two coats, and assumed 1 litre == 1 kilogram and came up with a figure,
IIRC, in the order of 750Kg.

By the time you kick some of the inaccuracies out of my 'highly scientific process', the figures from 400Kg to 600Kg start to sound pretty realistic.

I seem to remember (but I could be completely wrong) JB suggesting a figure a bit over a tonne for the 'Wunala Dreaming' scheme and, assuming a bit extra paint goes into that design, that's probably pretty much on the money too. It's gotta weigh more than two coats of plain old white.

G

Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:23:44 +1000

From: ops (martin@no-spam)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
GB wrote:
> Ben Matthes <b--.--..-.--@no-spam> wrote in > news:gb0lgvc8gvb4fvqoicjfbga2rsmvo08lrm@no-spam > >>On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:22:52 -0000, ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor >>Fenn) a man of few words, wrote:
>>yes you have heard it before?
> > > For what little it's worth, I sat down with a calculometer > one day, at about the time we were discussing the relative > ability of VH-OJB and one of the new ERs to carry the > 'Wunala Dreaming' livery. I applied the highly scientific > process of assuming that a B747 was a cylinder of the diameter > that a B747 actually is just aft of the wing root, searched > the net for coverage reccomendations for Taubmans Extra > Gloss Enamel something-or-other, assumed two coats, and > assumed 1 litre == 1 kilogram and came up with a figure,
> IIRC, in the order of 750Kg.
> > By the time you kick some of the inaccuracies out of my > 'highly scientific process', the figures from 400Kg to > 600Kg start to sound pretty realistic.
> > I seem to remember (but I could be completely wrong) JB > suggesting a figure a bit over a tonne for the 'Wunala > Dreaming' scheme and, assuming a bit extra paint goes > into that design, that's probably pretty much on the > money too. It's gotta weigh more than two coats of plain > old white.
> > G
Well it looks like OEJ gets the same paint job its basic red now.

rm

From: "- = krusty = -" (18@no-spam)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:36:52 +0200

...
> In fact the current anti tank round > in the M1A1 Abrams tank is non-explosive, it is just a block of DU.
...

Right, so where can I buy some to cast bullets for my .44?

-c.
(Dirty Harry)

{{{(-_-)}}}


From: "Tony Lathouras" (tony_lathouras@no-spam)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:15:09 +1000

"GB" <gb@no-spam> wrote in message news:jBvOa.125$3F6.5362@no-spam > Ben Matthes <b--.--..-.--@no-spam> wrote in > news:gb0lgvc8gvb4fvqoicjfbga2rsmvo08lrm@no-spam > > On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:22:52 -0000, ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor > > Fenn) a man of few words, wrote:
> > yes you have heard it before?
>
> For what little it's worth, I sat down with a calculometer > one day, at about the time we were discussing the relative > ability of VH-OJB and one of the new ERs to carry the > 'Wunala Dreaming' livery. I applied the highly scientific > process of assuming that a B747 was a cylinder of the diameter > that a B747 actually is just aft of the wing root, searched > the net for coverage reccomendations for Taubmans Extra > Gloss Enamel something-or-other, assumed two coats, and > assumed 1 litre == 1 kilogram and came up with a figure,
> IIRC, in the order of 750Kg.

The weight of the paint wet compared to cured is vastly different as the solvents, medium etc would have evaporated during the drying/curing process.
If you knew the weight of the solids *only* that went into the paint that was used, then you would have a very close figure.


Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:33:31 +1000
From: David Bromage (dbromage@no-spam)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747

matt weber wrote:

> Despite what you may have heard, the radiation hazard from DU is nil.

It's not nil, but it is extremely low. Depleted uranium (>99.8% U-238) is not highly radioactive. It is called depleted because it has most of the radioactive isotpoes removed for use as nuclear fuel. It's about 40% less radioactive than natural uranium (the natural mixture of U-234, U-235 and U-238).

Most of the radiation it does emit is alpha particles, which can be blocked by a piece of paper. There is a small amount of beta which will not penetrate clothing or boots. The tiny amount of gamma is roughly the same level as background radiation, to which everybody on the planet is exposed every day.

DU poses a very low radiological threat so long as it remains outside the body. If fragments enter the body and are not removed (shrapnel is not always removed from survivable wounds) it can have a long term radiological effect.

But uranium, like all other heavy metals, is toxic. Even in high doses the toxicity will get you long before any radiation does. It's not that different to cadmium, mercury or lead poisoning.

Not forgetting the uranium we naturally ingest in drinking water. Adults ingest about 460mg of uranium each year in water and food (and have been doing ever since humans have existed). <5% of ingested uranium is absorbed by the body. About 65% of that is filtered through the kidneys and excreted in urine within 24 hours, and 90% within a few days. On average, there is about 90 ug (micrograms) of uranium in the adult human body from normal intake of water and food.

The WHO, US, Canada and Australia set limits of 20 ug/l in drinking water. To receive a radiation dose of 1mSv/g from drinking 2 litres of water per day, the concentrations would need to be:

ug/l Enriched recycled uranium 120
Enriched natural uranium 508
Recycled uranium 515
Pure natural uranium 1630
Depleted recycled uranium 1850
Depleted uranium 2820

The limit of tolerable daily intake is about 2ug/kg/day, which on typical adult absorbtion equates to drinking water with about 102 ug/l of uranium.

Summary:
Don't panic.

References:
Comparison of Health Risks Arising From the Radiological and Chemical Toxicity of Uranium, EPA 402-R-96-011 A, September 1994.
Jacob et al, Machbarkeitsstudie zur Verkn?fung der Bewertung radiologischer und chemisch-toxischer Wirkungen von Altlasten, 1997.
Toxicological Profile for Uranium, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, September 1999. Reviewed all published data in uranium toxicity.
Australian and New Zealand Guidelines for Fresh and Marine Water Quality,National Water Quality Management Strategy, v2 2000.
Depleted Uranium: Sources, Exposures and Health Effects. World Health Organisation, April 2001.
Kurttio et al, Renal Effects of Uranium in Drinking Water, Environmental Health, Perspectives, Vol. 110, No. 4, April 2002, pp 337-342.

Cheers David

From: ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor Fenn)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:39:20 -0000

b--.--..-.--@no-spam (Ben Matthes) wrote in <gb0lgvc8gvb4fvqoicjfbga2rsmvo08lrm@no-spam>:
>On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:22:52 -0000, ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor >Fenn) a man of few words, wrote:
>
>
>>yes >
>yes you have heard it before?
>
>Ben Matthes. Canberra, Australia. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----- Aircraft Manager, Canberra Aero Club.
>http://www.canberra-aeroclub.com.au/

Yes.

-- Trevor Fenn There are too many zz's in my email address above.
Take two zz's and email me in the morning.

"Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just"
The Star Spangled Banner Francis Scott Key

From: "Hans Huber" (satipatthana@no-spam)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:39:47 +1000

Well if you call the old classic 747's and the 707 a modern airliner then yes you will find depleted uranium on them (747 classics had them on the elevators but it has been replaced with tungsten later). All the newer aircrafts 747-400, 767, 777 etc. have no more depleted uranium
"Ben Matthes" <b--.--..-.--@no-spam> wrote in message news:gb0lgvc8gvb4fvqoicjfbga2rsmvo08lrm@no-spam > On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:22:52 -0000, ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor > Fenn) a man of few words, wrote:
>
>
> >yes >
> yes you have heard it before?
>
> Ben Matthes. Canberra, Australia.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Aircraft Manager, Canberra Aero Club.
> http://www.canberra-aeroclub.com.au/


From: ozzzpilot@no-spam (Trevor Fenn)
Subject: Re: How much weight is the paint on a 747
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:49:46 -0000

b--.--..-.--@no-spam (Ben Matthes) wrote in <ckjngvgg4nrlserng45kmqe44m8m1cdh29@no-spam>:
>is that yes they use DU as well?
>
>

Affirm
-- Trevor Fenn There are too many zz's in my email address above.
Take two zz's and email me in the morning.

"Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just"
The Star Spangled Banner Francis Scott Key