"Scotty" <samtechsaNOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message
news:vdCKa.146$3M2.11447@no-spam
: said earlier its not the vehicle thats the problem...its the person behind
: the wheel....and a lot of people shouldn't be behind a wheel on a public
: road. Just my observations..
:
Like...
"It's not guns that kill people. People kill people"
(not sure on the credit for that)
I just say its a lot harder to kill people with a rotting banana and an
anchovie.
If I was to be hit by a car (again) then I would prefer to be hit by an
excel that crumples up like a coke can with the chance of rolling up onto
the bonnet than a 4wd with a bull bar at head height with a large chance of
going underneath.
Pete
Paul Jones <"katpaul"@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3ef5498c@no-spam
> The problem most have with 4wds is when people buy them as some sort of
> urban fashion statement and never use them off road.
>
> Congrats for buying a vehicle for your needs
>
> Paul
And the problem with most critics is washing the mud off is enough to
convince them it never goes offroad.
--
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
>
> givathafat wrote:
>
> > As a 4wder, cyclist and professional driver, I don't have a problem with
> > the type of vehicle it is just how it's driven.
> >
> > A person with no respect for those around them is just as dangerous in
> > corolla or a kenworth or even a push bike.
> >
> > I will happly for go my 4wd as soon as they ban all others bigger than
> > it. As that's not going to happen then it's time for all of us to get
> > over it. Calling me names and questioning my choice of vehicle won't
> > help anything.
> >
> > Although knowing what it does cost to run my 4wd compared to a small car
> > I can't think why anyone would want to just run around in one.
> >
> > I use my 4wd for what it was intended, it goes off road offten!
> >
> > Dave C
> >
> > --
> > >--------------------------<
> > Posted via cyclingforums.com
> > http://www.cyclingforums.com
>
G <here@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1fwyxzo.7am42y17ny8cgN%here@no-spam
> Actually, people buy them for their wives because they are perceived as
> safer, to take the kids to school with etc. The concept of going to
> lengths to make sure the "other" person dies rather than yourself is
> what irks me. But is does backfire at times with 4wd ease at flipping
> over.
>
> Paul Jones <"katpaul"@no-spam> wrote:
Been driving nothing but 4x4's & vans for most of my life, yeah they flip
over all the time.
And if hubby took the 4x4 to work instead of the Barina/train/bus, then
you'd whinge about it being in traffic, why should a family buy a second or
third car just for picking the kids up?
There's more Falcodores at all our local schools it's only the private
schools perhaps.
--
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
>
> > The problem most have with 4wds is when people buy them as some sort of
> > urban fashion statement and never use them off road.
> >
> > Congrats for buying a vehicle for your needs
> >
K.A. Moylan <kamoylan@no-spam> wrote in message
news:kamoylan-FCE441.01351118062003@no-spam
> In article <>, keith@no-spam (Keith) wrote:
>
> > From 'Background Briefing' on ABC Radio National last Sunday morning:
> > ... (The Cars that ate Cities) ...
> > The full text is at:
> > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s881845.htm
>
> One of the observations I made was the fear & discomfort felt by car
> drivers towards big 4WDs has the same causes of the fear & discomfort
> felt by cyclists towards motorists:
> * they are bigger;
> * they cause disproportionately more damage to the smaller one;
> * they dominate the roads;
> * the operators (unconciously) become more aggressive or assertive;
> * the operators feel safer.
>
> My greatest hope is that car drivers get a road law that says something
> like 'the bigger party is presumed negligent in a crash' (& everything
> that leads to).
>
> Cheerio,
>
> K.A. Moylan
Yeah, it wasn't the 18 yo WRX drivers fault, must be the 35yo diesel
Landcruiser ute driver.
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
"SG1" <spamers_should_make_money_honestly@no-spam> wrote in
message news:3F056002.6050406@no-spam
> Rainbow Warrior wrote:
> > G <here@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:1fwyxzo.7am42y17ny8cgN%here@no-spam
> >
> >>Actually, people buy them for their wives because they are perceived as
> >>safer, to take the kids to school with etc. The concept of going to
> >>lengths to make sure the "other" person dies rather than yourself is
> >>what irks me. But is does backfire at times with 4wd ease at flipping
> >>over.
> >>
> >>Paul Jones <"katpaul"@no-spam> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Been driving nothing but 4x4's & vans for most of my life, yeah they
flip
> > over all the time.
> > And if hubby took the 4x4 to work instead of the Barina/train/bus, then
> > you'd whinge about it being in traffic, why should a family buy a second
or
> > third car just for picking the kids up?
> > There's more Falcodores at all our local schools it's only the private
> > schools perhaps.
> >
> > --
> > Pat
> > Brisbane, Australia
> > http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
> >
> >
> >>>The problem most have with 4wds is when people buy them as some sort of
> >>>urban fashion statement and never use them off road.
> >>>
> >>>Congrats for buying a vehicle for your needs
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> Enjoy the show Rainbow
>
>
> I saw a dozen 4wd's flipped over on the way to work this morning - all
> with mothers and children in them. I think they were taking off at
> traffic light at the time.
> Greatest risk of rollover is when reverse parking in a shopping center,
> just cant seem to stay upright when turning the wheel from left lock to
> right lock.
Living in an area with a high percentage of 4WD's, this is some thing that
I've never heard of. Sounds suspiciously like exageration to me.
Phil
> Never seen a sedan rolled over though, safe as houses they are. You can
> fishtail them down the highway at 145kmh and think your in the xpt.
> I'd rather visit my comatose children in hospital than have a joyriding
> homeboy in a stolen subaru kill himself going through a red light.
>
> And in the nature of aus.bicycle ...
>
> I have an idea Paul Jones, jump off westfields - make sure you fall on
> someone not wearing a stack hat, you wouldnt want them having an unfair
> advantage for survival. Fool.
>
>
> sg1
>
> Not really in the mood for stupidity tonight.
>
"Rainbow Warrior" <QWERTY@no-spam> wrote in message
news:hXYMa.152$a%1.12196@no-spam
: John Doe <no_pdrinan_spam@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:wfLKa.112$eR2.1383@no-spam
: >
: > If I was to be hit by a car (again) then I would prefer to be hit by an
: > excel that crumples up like a coke can with the chance of rolling up
onto
: > the bonnet than a 4wd with a bull bar at head height with a large chance
: of
: > going underneath.
: >
: > Pete
:
: We'd all be so much safer if people used Excels to tow cherry pickers &
: large boats/horse floats on the freeway I suppose.
:
: Pat
: Brisbane, Australia
: http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
:
:
Yes you are right because you wouldnt find anyone fool to do it so there
would be a lot less of it on the roads.
"Rainbow Warrior" <QWERTY@no-spam> wrote in message
news:wQYMa.150$a%1.12195@no-spam
: Paul Jones <"katpaul"@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:3ef5498c@no-spam
: > The problem most have with 4wds is when people buy them as some sort of
: > urban fashion statement and never use them off road.
: >
: > Congrats for buying a vehicle for your needs
: >
: > Paul
:
: And the problem with most critics is washing the mud off is enough to
: convince them it never goes offroad.
:
I believe that the lack of any mark whatsover gives away the fact that
offroad=well graded firetrail to most.
John Doe <no_pdrinan_spam@no-spam> wrote in message
news:eurNa.939$s_5.8171@no-spam
>
> "Rainbow Warrior" <QWERTY@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:wQYMa.150$a%1.12195@no-spam
> : Paul Jones <"katpaul"@no-spam> wrote in message
> : news:3ef5498c@no-spam
> : > The problem most have with 4wds is when people buy them as some sort
of
> : > urban fashion statement and never use them off road.
> : >
> : > Congrats for buying a vehicle for your needs
> : >
> : > Paul
> :
> : And the problem with most critics is washing the mud off is enough to
> : convince them it never goes offroad.
>
> I believe that the lack of any mark whatsover gives away the fact that
> offroad=well graded firetrail to most.
Most of us are as reluctant as possible to mark $15k worth of vehicle so the
"floor it & bash it through" technique is restricted to $5k vehicles,
because it's a very fine line between marking and panel beater required.
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
: Most of us are as reluctant as possible to mark $15k worth of vehicle so
the
: "floor it & bash it through" technique is restricted to $5k vehicles,
: because it's a very fine line between marking and panel beater required.
:
: Pat
: Brisbane, Australia
: http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
:
:
I did not say beat up but I would expect the odd couple of scratches. I
have a friend who wont even let his wife park his 4wd truck at the shopping
centre. As far as a 15k vehicle. I would be scared crapless to consider
taking that off the road for fear of my personal safety. If I was going to
buy a 4wd it would have to be a real one.
Have you ever been to the US. The cars just keep getting bigger and bigger.
I think it must have something to do with increasing obesity. I mean
really, a sedan is just going to make your arse look big. I reckon sooner
or later we will be all driving prime movers. I reckon that is on peoples
minds now... Will my arse look big in this car. These days you would have
to pull on a mighty boy like a pair of pants.
Another good quote I heard was that there are so many urban 4wd vehicles now
that we should just completely stop wasting money on maintaining roads. We
could stop building roads all together and just 4wd everywhere.
Peter
John Doe <no_pdrinan_spam@no-spam> wrote in message
news:TTANa.1412$s_5.18791@no-spam
> : Most of us are as reluctant as possible to mark $15k worth of vehicle so
> the
> : "floor it & bash it through" technique is restricted to $5k vehicles,
> : because it's a very fine line between marking and panel beater required.
> :
> : Pat
> :
> I did not say beat up but I would expect the odd couple of scratches. I
> have a friend who wont even let his wife park his 4wd truck at the
shopping
> centre. As far as a 15k vehicle. I would be scared crapless to consider
> taking that off the road for fear of my personal safety. If I was going
to
> buy a 4wd it would have to be a real one.
I've heard of people who wouldn't let their wife/daughter park their BMW
/ Sigma at a shopping centre.
You really don't know much about 4x4's, $15 to $20k would be about the
average value of those used offroad, a stock standard $10k to $20k early
90's Patrol is one of the safest & most capable vehicles offroad.
> Have you ever been to the US. The cars just keep getting bigger and
bigger.
The F350's have been around since the early 70's, they've had their big
trucks over there for years, doubt you'll find a "plague" of them in
downtown NY.
> I think it must have something to do with increasing obesity. I mean
> really, a sedan is just going to make your arse look big. I reckon
sooner
> or later we will be all driving prime movers. I reckon that is on peoples
> minds now... Will my arse look big in this car. These days you would have
> to pull on a mighty boy like a pair of pants.
Yeah, I'm sure even Falcodore drivers do the same, look at the number of
them driving around that never use the back seat/doors.
> Another good quote I heard was that there are so many urban 4wd vehicles
now
> that we should just completely stop wasting money on maintaining roads.
We
> could stop building roads all together and just 4wd everywhere.
>
> Peter
Us 4x4 fans wouldn't care about dirt roads, we can do double the speed now
driving on the forestry tracks parallel to the near parked holiday traffic
heading back to the sunshine coast.
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
"Rainbow Warrior" <QWERTY@no-spam> wrote in message
news:Y6BNa.492$kY2.25003@no-spam
: John Doe <no_pdrinan_spam@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:TTANa.1412$s_5.18791@no-spam
: > : Most of us are as reluctant as possible to mark $15k worth of vehicle
so
: > the
: > : "floor it & bash it through" technique is restricted to $5k vehicles,
: > : because it's a very fine line between marking and panel beater
required.
: > :
: > : Pat
: > :
: > I did not say beat up but I would expect the odd couple of scratches. I
: > have a friend who wont even let his wife park his 4wd truck at the
: shopping
: > centre. As far as a 15k vehicle. I would be scared crapless to
consider
: > taking that off the road for fear of my personal safety. If I was going
: to
: > buy a 4wd it would have to be a real one.
:
: I've heard of people who wouldn't let their wife/daughter park their
BMW
: / Sigma at a shopping centre.
:
: You really don't know much about 4x4's, $15 to $20k would be about the
: average value of those used offroad, a stock standard $10k to $20k early
: 90's Patrol is one of the safest & most capable vehicles offroad.
:
: > Have you ever been to the US. The cars just keep getting bigger and
: bigger.
:
: The F350's have been around since the early 70's, they've had their big
: trucks over there for years, doubt you'll find a "plague" of them in
: downtown NY.
:
: > I think it must have something to do with increasing obesity. I mean
: > really, a sedan is just going to make your arse look big. I reckon
: sooner
: > or later we will be all driving prime movers. I reckon that is on
peoples
: > minds now... Will my arse look big in this car. These days you would
have
: > to pull on a mighty boy like a pair of pants.
:
: Yeah, I'm sure even Falcodore drivers do the same, look at the number of
: them driving around that never use the back seat/doors.
:
: > Another good quote I heard was that there are so many urban 4wd vehicles
: now
: > that we should just completely stop wasting money on maintaining roads.
: We
: > could stop building roads all together and just 4wd everywhere.
: >
: > Peter
:
: Us 4x4 fans wouldn't care about dirt roads, we can do double the speed now
: driving on the forestry tracks parallel to the near parked holiday traffic
: heading back to the sunshine coast.
:
: Pat
: Brisbane, Australia
: http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
:
:
Hey. Dont get me wrong. I dont mind people buying a vehicle for their
purpose. Its just their over dominance in the middle of the city by people
who call off road taking it outside urban streets. If you use it for
recreational use as they were designed then I have no beef with you.
Pete
I wasn't going join any further in this thred, content to sit back and
watch the 4wd'ers get all defensive.
But today on a ride, no bull, I saw the aftermath of an accident between
a 4wd Hilux dual cab and a little 2 door Deawoo or something. It was the
corner of Jarrad St and Curtin Ave Cottesloe about 4pm. The Police had
blocked the road one direction, anyone who was there could confirm it.
The little car had some front end damage, the bonnet was missing, but
the cabin and roof were intact, the car obviously didn't flip 360
degrees for example. The airbag had deployed.
The Hilux on the otherhabd was a total write off. It was on its roof,
the roof at the front had almost completely caved in. I would think the
driver would have been in serious trouble. For a vehical practically
designed to easy flipping over, I can't believe they make the roof
pillars so weak.
GK
> Paul Jones <"katpaul"@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3ef5498c@no-spam
> > The problem most have with 4wds is when people buy them as some sort of
> > urban fashion statement and never use them off road.
> >
> > Congrats for buying a vehicle for your needs
> >
I am puzzled about this thread and its references to driving vehicles "off
road". Are people talking about the use of vehicles by farmers on their own
properties? If not, am I wrong in believing that it is illegal to drive
vehicles on public land other than on roads or "road related areas" under
the appropriate regulations? Or are people talking about the many vandals
who destroy our countryside by the illegal use of motor vehicles?
Just what is this "off road" business all about?
John Retchford
John Doe <no_pdrinan_spam@no-spam> wrote in message
news:5PKNa.279$pg6.5185@no-spam
>
> Hey. Dont get me wrong. I dont mind people buying a vehicle for their
> purpose. Its just their over dominance in the middle of the city by
people
> who call off road taking it outside urban streets. If you use it for
> recreational use as they were designed then I have no beef with you.
>
> Pete
Many of those people may use them just for towing, can't beat a 4x4 when a 2
tonne trailer on the back gets a sway happening. Many also find them good
for packing kids & stuff in, boot space is huge, like comparing a Kingswood
panelvan to a wagon. Great at pulling tree stumps out and towing car
trailers or trailers full of mates furniture moving house too, just a great
multipurpose vehicle compared to a sedan which is only ok at carrying
people.
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
g <here@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1fxoypy.y49j4wetn9acN%here@no-spam
> I wasn't going join any further in this thred, content to sit back and
> watch the 4wd'ers get all defensive.
>
> But today on a ride, no bull, I saw the aftermath of an accident between
> a 4wd Hilux dual cab and a little 2 door Deawoo or something. It was the
> corner of Jarrad St and Curtin Ave Cottesloe about 4pm. The Police had
> blocked the road one direction, anyone who was there could confirm it.
>
> The little car had some front end damage, the bonnet was missing, but
> the cabin and roof were intact, the car obviously didn't flip 360
> degrees for example. The airbag had deployed.
> The Hilux on the otherhabd was a total write off. It was on its roof,
> the roof at the front had almost completely caved in. I would think the
> driver would have been in serious trouble. For a vehical practically
> designed to easy flipping over, I can't believe they make the roof
> pillars so weak.
>
> GK
And yet the anti 4x4 crowd also complain how cars are "always" squashed to
pulps by 4x4's in accidents. Accident out comes are not cut & dry ask a tow
truck driver, some flip some don't, I saw a "not designed for easy flipping
over" Laser on it's roof last week without a 4x4 involved, it's roof didn't
look so hot either, should we ban them too?
--
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
"Rainbow Warrior" <QWERTY@no-spam> wrote in message
news:ABbOa.196$fI5.7184@no-spam
: John Doe <no_pdrinan_spam@no-spam> wrote in message
: news:5PKNa.279$pg6.5185@no-spam
: >
: > Hey. Dont get me wrong. I dont mind people buying a vehicle for their
: > purpose. Its just their over dominance in the middle of the city by
: people
: > who call off road taking it outside urban streets. If you use it for
: > recreational use as they were designed then I have no beef with you.
: >
: > Pete
:
: Many of those people may use them just for towing, can't beat a 4x4 when a
2
: tonne trailer on the back gets a sway happening. Many also find them good
: for packing kids & stuff in, boot space is huge, like comparing a
Kingswood
: panelvan to a wagon. Great at pulling tree stumps out and towing car
: trailers or trailers full of mates furniture moving house too, just a
great
: multipurpose vehicle compared to a sedan which is only ok at carrying
: people.
:
: Pat
: Brisbane, Australia
: http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
:
:
:
I have to disagree. I find them cramped compared to the standard family
wagon. No rear leg room and the rear luggage space is woeful for the
exterior size. I also would be one that would be strongly lobbying to ban
any passenger vehicle that was dragging 2 tonnes along behind it. Is it
legal to tow such a heavy load without a special licence with a passenger
vehicle?
Do you have a bull bar as well?
Peter
John Doe <no_pdrinan_spam@no-spam> wrote in message
news:KpcOa.1116$Xx6.13557@no-spam
> : Many of those people may use them just for towing, can't beat a 4x4 when
a
> 2
> : tonne trailer on the back gets a sway happening. Many also find them
good
> : for packing kids & stuff in, boot space is huge, like comparing a
> Kingswood
> : panelvan to a wagon. Great at pulling tree stumps out and towing car
> : trailers or trailers full of mates furniture moving house too, just a
> great
> : multipurpose vehicle compared to a sedan which is only ok at carrying
> : people.
> :
> : Pat
>
> I have to disagree. I find them cramped compared to the standard family
> wagon.
Was passenger the whole trip in the backseat of an 85 Patrol to Cape york
and back no problems, riden in the third row seats of one plenty of times
plenty of room how's the third row seating in a Falcodore?
> No rear leg room and the rear luggage space is woeful for the
> exterior size.
Wheel a fully assembled 4 burner BBQ into the boot of a Falcodore and repeat
that statement.
I also would be one that would be strongly lobbying to ban
> any passenger vehicle that was dragging 2 tonnes along behind it.
Works Cherry picker, 1.5 tonne, had it behind my Econovan once, but wouldn't
make 5th. Was a bit slow going to Bundaburg on the back of the old 75 series
trayback diesel Landcruiser, but wouldn't have wanted anything lighter when
it got out of shape a couple of times, more power could have been handy
though.
Lighting plant trailer behind of my V8 Rangie 1.4 tonne, no problems
overtaking still.
Hilux & car trailer behind of my Rangie, your guess?
EJ Holden & car trailer behind of my 4cyl 1968 Landy, still made 4th gear
too.
2 Horses in a float trailer ain't light either.
> Is it
> legal to tow such a heavy load without a special licence with a passenger
> vehicle?
You're allowed to tow legally in most states 1.5 times the weight of the
towing vehicle.
> Do you have a bull bar as well?
Yep, aluminium can strength alloy too, straightened it twice already.
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
wrote:
> Forestry fire trails for clubs and individuals with permits, beach
> driving/fishing at Moreton, Stradbroke & Fraser Islands mudracing &
> camping on private properties or commercial 4x4 park's (which at
> last count numbered 12 parks within 2 hours of Brisbane).
> And if you ever looked at the beach after 100 4x4's have driven
> down it after the next tide you wouldn't find a clue they had been
> there. As far as bush tracks go, some greenies have no idea how
> much actual bush there is out there and that 50km of 2metre wide
> track in a 800 hectare property is peanuts. We don't go running
> over trees to make new tracks everytime we go offroad, as we
> actually find the more wear on a particular section of track the
> more interesting it becomes.
> Consider the damage done by "vandals" pushing over trees for
> football fields, shopping centres, houses & racetracks as well
> perhaps.
> Illegal use of motor vehicles happens a lot more on the road than off.
> Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/http://h-
> omepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
+1
Ditto to that
Funny how pseudo greenies(above) are very selective in whom they brand
as a 'vandal'. They display an arrogant , self righteous attitude and
contempt toward people who use the bush as a means of income or
recreation , yet they seem to ignore activities and policies which are
outright destructive such as urbanisation , and the push for massive
population. These tyrants have no interest whatsoever in conserving the
bush. They don't use it , they don't sleep in it , ride in it , drive or
work in it. The last people you'll see at a clean-up-Australia day is
one of these 'pretend' "4 wheeldrives shouldn't be in the bush"
greenies. They should get out in the bush more often . There are 1000s
of kms of bush tracks which can 'legally' be driven on with 4wds.
People who use the bush for recreation , love the bush . We want as
much of it as possible , and we want it to stay forever. These self
righteous psuedo greens want to stop everyone else from enjoying nature
. They can't stand the fact that people can camp out in a wilderness
for FREE or ride a mountain bike or drive a fourwheel drive though a
track without the restraints of commercialism. These 'anti 4x4 ers'
should go lean over a barb wire fence an d let a landcruiser f##k some
sense into them.
:D
--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
Malvern_star <usenet-forum@no-spam> wrote in
news:3f097ce2$1_3@no-spam
<snip>
> nature . They can't stand the fact that people can camp out in a
> wilderness for FREE or ride a mountain bike or drive a fourwheel drive
> though a track without the restraints of commercialism. These 'anti
> 4x4 ers' should go lean over a barb wire fence an d let a landcruiser
> f##k some sense into them.
I agree with the sentiment, we are genuine greenies IMO, the unfortunate
thing is "we", the genuine users of public land, are unorganised and at
each otheres throats. Instead of being mindful of other users you often
see them not wanting other groups in there. I ride a registered
motorbike on trails in the bush, the same ones used by 4WD's etc, lots of
my freinds do the same, they hate 4WD's cause of the track damge they do
and the danger they pose because to motorcyclists because they are slow
and cumbersome. I am trying to overcome their predjuice :)
I also MTB off road, these guys don't want motorbikes or 4WDs there, the
hikers don't want the MTB guys there... sigh....
We need to band together to ensure the Government is not subjugated into
denying us access forever. eg Wet Tropics legislation is nasty bit of
gear that does not directly impact you that far south as it stops at
Townsville but it prohibits access accross SF's and Nat Parks in areas
that it covers, eg CREB track will be closed etc etc
Perhaps we spend our spare time in the bush so much enjoying it, that we
don't spend the time ensuring we presever our "right" to actually be
there. We spend no time campaigning or on advocacy but one day we will
wake up and there will be no where to enjoy it anymore.
The enviro-nazi's seem to spend little or no time in the bush and have
laods of free time to campaign to keep everyone out :(
Trevor S
> >
> > Just what is this "off road" business all about?
buy/hire one and find out
go with someone who does it
very rewarding to get away from the urban noise and away from the usual
picnicing hoards at local parks
the Forestry has a permit system for motor vehicles and bikes,
pushbikes, horses or hikers
each have different areas of access, the non motorised modes can go
almost anywhere
the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules
apply, even speed limits(cops do use radars on the beach)
Kev
Trevor S wrote:
> Malvern_star <usenet-forum@no-spam> wrote in news:3f097ce2$1_-
> 3@news.chariot.net.au:news:3f097ce2$1_3@no-spam <snip>
> > nature . They can't stand the fact that people can camp out in a
> > wilderness for FREE or ride a mountain bike or drive a fourwheel drive
> > though a track without the restraints of commercialism. These 'anti
> > 4x4 ers' should go lean over a barb wire fence an d let a landcruiser
> > f##k some sense into them.
> I agree with the sentiment, we are genuine greenies IMO, the unfortunate
> thing is "we", the genuine users of public land, are unorganised and at
> each otheres throats. Instead of being mindful of other users you often
> see them not wanting other groups in there. I ride a registered
> motorbike on trails in the bush, the same ones used by 4WD's etc, lots
> of my freinds do the same, they hate 4WD's cause of the track damge they
> do and the danger they pose because to motorcyclists because they are
> slow and cumbersome. I am trying to overcome their predjuice :)
> I also MTB off road, these guys don't want motorbikes or 4WDs there, the
> hikers don't want the MTB guys there... sigh....
> We need to band together to ensure the Government is not subjugated into
> denying us access forever. eg Wet Tropics legislation is nasty bit of
> gear that does not directly impact you that far south as it stops at
> Townsville but it prohibits access accross SF's and Nat Parks in areas
> that it covers, eg CREB track will be closed etc etc
> Perhaps we spend our spare time in the bush so much enjoying it, that we
> don't spend the time ensuring we presever our "right" to actually be
> there. We spend no time campaigning or on advocacy but one day we will
> wake up and there will be no where to enjoy it anymore.
> The enviro-nazi's seem to spend little or no time in the bush and have
> laods of free time to campaign to keep everyone out :(
> Trevor S
Hi Trevor I used to live in Townsville mate . I know what is going on up
there. I hope CREB track isn't closed as it is far nicer than the
coastal road IMO. I drove across it in 97 last. The closure of Bluewater
state forest really got up my nose as it was the most beautiful area
near Townsville aside from Paluma. They closed the road going into the
Bluewater state forest and threatened people with draconian penalties if
they dared to ride/walk or drive up into the mountains there. I used to
ride the MTB and camp up there all the time , however the last time I
was there , about two years after they closed the road , a huge amount
of forest had been bulldozed , yet about a few hundred metres before ,
is a sign 'wet tropics world heritage area' . Ha .Yeah right :mad: What
a bloody scam!!!
--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
Malvern_star <usenet-forum@no-spam> wrote in
news:3f0af89d$1_4@no-spam
<Snip>
>
> Hi Trevor I used to live in Townsville mate . I know what is going on
> up there. I hope CREB track isn't closed as it is far nicer than the
> coastal road IMO. I drove across it in 97 last.
It was originally bulit for access to power lines for maintenance (Cairns
Regional Electricy Board is the CREB acronym, as it was originally
called), the power lins have been realigned, ERGON have no use for the
track, QPWS want no one there and don't want to maintain it. There are
grous working actively to ensure it remaines open... but...
> The closure of
> Bluewater state forest really got up my nose as it was the most
> beautiful area near Townsville
Wet Tropics legilation shut that, no permit through the SF because it is
deemed Wet Tropics. That's what irks me, you can't get access along the
graded and miantained road, I am not talkif about carving new trails
through virgin rainforest ! You can now get to the top of the range but
the road is still closed after that.
> aside from Paluma.
The road around the back of the Paluma Dam (the one that goes to Hidden
Valley, Blenhems Track, is closed for the same reason, Wet Tropics, there
is a graded miantained road with no access allowed !!! The local MTB
club guys finally got access last year but they are the only ones. I
ride my MTB through there on occasion, in summer it is pleasently cool up
there, then ride down to Hidden Valley and back up (pant pant pant)...
> They closed the road
> going into the Bluewater state forest and threatened people with
> draconian penalties if they dared to ride/walk or drive up into the
> mountains there.
The track to the top is open again but it stops at the top, no access
past that !
> I used to ride the MTB and camp up there all the time
> , however the last time I was there , about two years after they
> closed the road , a huge amount of forest had been bulldozed , yet
> about a few hundred metres before , is a sign 'wet tropics world
> heritage area' . Ha .Yeah right :mad: What a bloody scam!!!
Same thing at Paluma Dam, they re-did the camping area near the Dam,
bulldozed the crap out of the forest, where the signs are that say Wet
Tropcs Protected Area <ohhhh the irony> to make a car park for day
trippers. Not in a 100 years of 4-WD's, motorcycles and MTB riders
could that amount of damage be done.
As an aside, the Army have access to the Bluewater Range to bomb the shit
out of it in the Wet Tropic area and run over everything in the APC's.
These guys can do serious damage, they don't stick to the beaten track.
I had a heated debate with QPWS about the irony of this, water of a ducks
back, it's all legal and that's the only thing that counts according to
them, you want legal access to Joe Q Public ? tough shit pal :)
Trevor S
"Peter Signorini" <petesig@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3f0b5bbf@no-spam
>
> "kevcat" <KevAlone@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F0ADCB2.309452E2@no-spam
> >
> > the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules
> > apply, even speed limits(cops do use radars on the beach)
>
> You're obviously talking about a very different part of the country. As
far
> as I'm aware it is illegal to drive vehicles on beaches throughout
Victoria.
>
At last count, as far as I'm aware there were 7 other states and territories
other than Victoria.
Trevor S wrote:
> Malvern_star <usenet-forum@no-spam> wrote in news:3f0af89d$1_-
> 4@news.chariot.net.au:news:3f0af89d$1_4@no-spam <Snip>
> >
> > Hi Trevor I used to live in Townsville mate . I know what is going on
> > up there. I hope CREB track isn't closed as it is far nicer than the
> > coastal road IMO. I drove across it in 97 last.
> It was originally bulit for access to power lines for maintenance
> (Cairns Regional Electricy Board is the CREB acronym, as it was
> originally called), the power lins have been realigned, ERGON have no
> use for the track, QPWS want no one there and don't want to maintain it.
> There are grous working actively to ensure it remaines open... but...
> > The closure of Bluewater state forest really got up my nose as it was
> > the most beautiful area near Townsville
> Wet Tropics legilation shut that, no permit through the SF because it is
> deemed Wet Tropics. That's what irks me, you can't get access along the
> graded and miantained road, I am not talkif about carving new trails
> through virgin rainforest ! You can now get to the top of the range but
> the road is still closed after that.
> > aside from Paluma.
> The road around the back of the Paluma Dam (the one that goes to Hidden
> Valley, Blenhems Track, is closed for the same reason, Wet Tropics,
> there is a graded miantained road with no access allowed
> !!! The local MTB club guys finally got access last year but they are
> !!! the only ones. I ride my MTB
> through there on occasion, in summer it is pleasently cool up there,
> then ride down to Hidden Valley and back up (pant pant pant)...
> > They closed the road going into the Bluewater state forest and
> > threatened people with draconian penalties if they dared to ride/walk
> > or drive up into the mountains there.
> The track to the top is open again but it stops at the top, no access
> past that !
> > I used to ride the MTB and camp up there all the time , however the
> > last time I was there , about two years after they closed the road , a
> > huge amount of forest had been bulldozed , yet about a few hundred
> > metres before , is a sign 'wet tropics world heritage area' . Ha .Yeah
> > right :mad: What a bloody scam!!!
> Same thing at Paluma Dam, they re-did the camping area near the Dam,
> bulldozed the crap out of the forest, where the signs are that say Wet
> Tropcs Protected Area <ohhhh the irony> to make a car park for day
> trippers. Not in a 100 years of 4-WD's, motorcycles and MTB riders could
> that amount of damage be done.
> As an aside, the Army have access to the Bluewater Range to bomb the
> **** out of it in the Wet Tropic area and run over everything in the
> APC's. These guys can do serious damage, they don't stick to the
> beaten track. I had a heated debate with QPWS about the irony of this,
> water of a ducks back, it's all legal and that's the only thing that
> counts according to them, you want legal access to Joe Q Public ?
> tough **** pal :)
> Trevor S
I really miss that place (North Qland). Shame about the Hidden valley
road closure , I used to MTB and 4x4 in that region as well. Once I was
riding down the closed Crystal Creek road at the bottom of Paluma. A
QPWS ranger bailed me up and threatened me with a $10,000 fine for being
there , I just laughed at them and stated in a hyperthetical manner that
I could beat the crap out of them , put them in hospital and not receive
anywhere near such a harsh penalty.(I'd never actually do such a thing
of course;) ) , but it really got my goat. And you notice that they
don't give you any reason for these closures of public land. You and I
know the answer to - WHY??? But it would be nice to hear it from them
plain as day and to have a little video camera or tape recorder. Good to
hear that you can at least drive up to Bluewater range now . That would
be because of public preasure and 'sick and tiredness' of always
building barriers across the little side track at the bottom of the
hill. (which my old landcruiser transversed many times:D) That road
eventually goes all the way to Starr river (I think) but it's one
helluva ride I've never been to the end of it and I rode for a full day
starting at the bottom of the hill. I drove the landcruiser through
Keelbottom creek and across the next creek but didn't go much further
than that. Didn't take the army long to completely trash the road and
make it impassable too. But... It's still a great place and I hope to
get up there soon.:)
--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
Malvern_star <usenet-forum@no-spam> wrote in
news:3f0be7a6_2@no-spam
<snip>
> It's still a great place and I hope to get up there soon.:)
http://www.rockwheelers.webcentral.com.au/
Trevor S
Rhubarb <billy@no-spam> wrote in message
news:87MOa.4883$oN.204296@no-spam
> "Peter Signorini" <petesig@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3f0b5bbf@no-spam
> >
> > "kevcat" <KevAlone@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:3F0ADCB2.309452E2@no-spam
> > >
> > > the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules
> > > apply, even speed limits(cops do use radars on the beach)
> >
> > You're obviously talking about a very different part of the country. As
> far
> > as I'm aware it is illegal to drive vehicles on beaches throughout
> Victoria.
>
> At last count, as far as I'm aware there were 7 other states and
territories
> other than Victoria.
Not too many beaches you can drive on in ACT I suspect :-P
--
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/
John Doe wrote:
> [If I was to be hit by a car (again) then I would prefer to be hit by an
> excel that crumples up like a coke can with the chance of rolling up
> onto the bonnet than a 4wd with a bull bar at head height with a large
> chance of going underneath.
> Pete
Correct, speaking as a cyclist who's been pinballed out of the way by a
4WD (impromptu handstand & forward roll included), I would sooner prefer
a Datsun 180B, if the process had to be repeated. Actually I don't want
the process ever to be repeated.:mad:
Another point, ever witnessed a large 4WD attempt a turning circle with
inexperienced driver? :p
--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
Greetings, <br>
I was cleaned up by one of those mini 4WD's (a Honda CRV
in this case) just over a year ago. The driver went through a stop sign.
The fact is when 1.5 tonnes of metal collects you at high speed you are injured
without question, and sometimes dead. With drivers as thick as the one that
ran me down (Were you riding on the footpath she asked when she hit me in
the roadway) the sad fact is that some collisions are almost inevitable.
<br>
Regards, <br>
Ray. <br>
<br>
cfsmtb wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3f0d162b$1_2@no-spam">
<pre wrap="">John Doe wrote:<br> > [If I was to be hit by a car (again) then I would prefer to be hit by an<br> > excel that crumples up like a coke can with the chance of rolling up<br> > onto the bonnet than a 4wd with a bull bar at head height with a large<br> > chance of going underneath.<br> > Pete<br><br><br><br>Correct, speaking as a cyclist who's been pinballed out of the way by a<br>4WD (impromptu handstand & forward roll included), I would sooner prefer<br>a Datsun 180B, if the process had to be repeated. Actually I don't want<br>the process ever to be repeated.:mad:<br><br>Another point, ever witnessed a large 4WD attempt a turning circle with<br>inexperienced driver? :p<br><br><br><br>--<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">--------------------------< <br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->Posted via cyclingforums.com<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cyclingforums.com">http://www.cyclingforums.com</a><br></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
g <here@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1fxzg06.fw6wgw1l2wr28N%here@no-spam
> Rainbow Warrior <QWERTY@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > Ray Peace <ferret@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:3F0DECF4.1080602@no-spam
> > > Greetings,
> > > I was cleaned up by one of those mini 4WD's (a Honda
CRV
> > in this case) just over a year ago. The driver went through a stop sign.
The
> > fact is when 1.5 tonnes of metal collects you at high speed you are
injured
> > without question, and sometimes dead. With drivers as thick as the one
that
> > ran me down (Were you riding on the footpath she asked when she hit me
in
> > the roadway) the sad fact is that some collisions are almost inevitable.
> > > Regards,
> > > Ray.
> >
> > And Commodores actually are heavier than CRV's.
> > Wouldn't have mattered if she was in a Barina, she still would have hit
you.
>
> Bullocks. Commodes and Barinas have low noses that tend to go under a
> cyclist. The bullnose of a 4wd is a straight ram into your torso (they
> are also a head height ram for car drivers, but thats another story).
>
> GK
And Commodores actually are heavier than CRV's.
I didn't mention their nose shape, you were concerned with their weight
Wouldn't have mattered if she was driving a Barina, she still would have hit
you.
--
Pat
Brisbane, Australia
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/