AUS BICYCLE 45 RE RIDE MELBOURNE S CITYLINK TUNNEL WITH CRITICAL MASS
From: NeilFisher@no-spam (Neil Fisher)
Subject: Re: Ride Melbourne's CityLink Tunnel with Critical Mass!
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:05:21 GMT


On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 07:35:50 GMT, David Sutton <david@no-spam>
wrote:

[snip]

>
>Since 1991, 3 pedestrians have been killed by cyclists. That's right --
>three! In the same time, the number of peds killed by cars was *887*.

And what percentage were the fault of the pedestrian and/or involved an intoxicated pedestrian?

Neil ---
Neil Fisher / Bob Young Thundercords personal opinion unless otherwise noted.
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From: "Luke Webber" (luke@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Ride Melbourne's CityLink Tunnel with Critical Mass!
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 02:40:28 GMT

"Deep Floyd Mars" <deepfloydmars@no-spam> wrote in message news:%L5Ma.8143$eE.96926@no-spam > Neil Fisher <NeilFisher@no-spam> wrote in message > news:3eff85f7.230704445@no-spam > > On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 07:35:50 GMT, David Sutton <david@no-spam>
> > wrote:

> > >Since 1991, 3 pedestrians have been killed by cyclists. That's right --
> > >three! In the same time, the number of peds killed by cars was *887*.
> >
> > And what percentage were the fault of the pedestrian and/or involved > > an intoxicated pedestrian?
>
> I'd be interested to know more about those 3 cases. The number is so low,
> that they could be considered 'freak' accidents. I wonder how many people > die from tripping over walking in the street?

I think it'd be fair to call them freak accidents, but I don't know why Neil seems to feel a need to ascribe them to the pedestrians. There *are*
cyclists out there who do the wrong thing, after all. Take city bicycle couriers for example.

My wife was knocked to the ground while stepping out of a local shop by a cyclist who damned well should have known better than to speed down the footpath in a busy shopping precinct. I suppose that if she'd hit her head,
she could have been adding to that statistic. It may not be common actually to die that way, but it's a common enough accident scenario.

Luke

From: "Peter Signorini" (petesig@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Ride Melbourne's CityLink Tunnel with Critical Mass!
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:36:09 +1000

"Luke Webber" <luke@no-spam> wrote in message news:ww6Ma.32$P84.570@no-spam > "Deep Floyd Mars" <deepfloydmars@no-spam> wrote in message > news:%L5Ma.8143$eE.96926@no-spam > > Neil Fisher <NeilFisher@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:3eff85f7.230704445@no-spam > > > And what percentage were the fault of the pedestrian and/or involved > > > an intoxicated pedestrian?
> >
> > I'd be interested to know more about those 3 cases. The number is so low,
> > that they could be considered 'freak' accidents. I wonder how many people > > die from tripping over walking in the street?
>
> I think it'd be fair to call them freak accidents, but I don't know why Neil > seems to feel a need to ascribe them to the pedestrians. There *are*
> cyclists out there who do the wrong thing, after all. Take city bicycle > couriers for example.

You seem to have misread Mr Fisher's post. He was trying to make excuses for the car drivers who killed 887 pedestrians. That's OK isn't it?

Standard cop out: -car hits ped/cyclist, "they were drunk/erratic/couldn't see 'em"
-cyclist hits pedestrain, "speeding renegade bike riders"

Leave decisions on causes of accidents to the cops and coroner. You will rarely hear the full story in the news.

Cheers Peter

From: "Luke Webber" (luke@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Ride Melbourne's CityLink Tunnel with Critical Mass!
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:31:38 GMT

"Peter Signorini" <petesig@no-spam> wrote in message news:3f014932@no-spam > "Luke Webber" <luke@no-spam> wrote in message > news:ww6Ma.32$P84.570@no-spam
> > I think it'd be fair to call them freak accidents, but I don't know why > Neil > > seems to feel a need to ascribe them to the pedestrians. There *are*
> > cyclists out there who do the wrong thing, after all. Take city bicycle > > couriers for example.
>
> You seem to have misread Mr Fisher's post. He was trying to make excuses for > the car drivers who killed 887 pedestrians. That's OK isn't it?

Ah. I think the article I read was snipped such that I didn't catch that. It looked to me as if somebody was trying to say that even those three deaths were likely to be caused by drunken pedestrians ]wavering in front of cyclists, which seemed a trifle harsh. <g>

> Standard cop out: -car hits ped/cyclist, "they were drunk/erratic/couldn't > see 'em"
> -cyclist hits pedestrain, "speeding renegade > bike riders"
>
> Leave decisions on causes of accidents to the cops and coroner. You will > rarely hear the full story in the news.

True enough. I'm certainly not likely to make the mistake of blaming all cyclists for their own injuries. I'm only recently recovered from a broken collarbone received when a motorist opened his door suddenly, knocking me off my bike.

That said, those bicycle couriers in the city scare the shit out of me. ;^(

Luke

From: "Mark Lee" (markwlee@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Ride Melbourne's CityLink Tunnel with Critical Mass!
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:35:18 GMT

"Luke Webber" <luke@no-spam> wrote in message > SNIP > True enough. I'm certainly not likely to make the mistake of blaming all > cyclists for their own injuries. I'm only recently recovered from a broken > collarbone received when a motorist opened his door suddenly, knocking me > off my bike.
>SNIP
What were you doing in the door zone?
Mark Lee

From: "Luke Webber" (luke@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Ride Melbourne's CityLink Tunnel with Critical Mass!
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:32:57 GMT

"Mark Lee" <markwlee@no-spam> wrote in message news:q8nMa.17$Cl4.2263@no-spam >
> "Luke Webber" <luke@no-spam> wrote in message > > SNIP > > True enough. I'm certainly not likely to make the mistake of blaming all > > cyclists for their own injuries. I'm only recently recovered from a broken > > collarbone received when a motorist opened his door suddenly, knocking me > > off my bike.
> >SNIP >
> What were you doing in the door zone?

It was a quiet suburban street, and I was scanning carefully to see if any of the few cars was occupied. As it happened, the driver of this car was bending over to fit a steering-wheel lock, so I didn't see him. Even then, I wouldn't have hit if he hadn't swung the door suddenly wide open without looking *just* as I was drawing even with the rear of his car.

If I'd had even the slightest cue that the car was occupied, I would have given it a wider berth, believe me.

Luke

From: Jeremy Lunn (spammers-must-die@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Ride Melbourne's CityLink Tunnel with Critical Mass!
Date: 02 Jul 2003 01:49:54 GMT

In article <t_nMa.64$Cl4.3171@no-spam>, Luke Webber wrote:
> It was a quiet suburban street, and I was scanning carefully to see if any > of the few cars was occupied. As it happened, the driver of this car was > bending over to fit a steering-wheel lock, so I didn't see him. Even then, I > wouldn't have hit if he hadn't swung the door suddenly wide open without > looking *just* as I was drawing even with the rear of his car.

Did you get his name/address and/or vehicle registration and report him to the police? I believe it's a chargable offence to open a car door without looking.

> If I'd had even the slightest cue that the car was occupied, I would have > given it a wider berth, believe me.

In general it's best to give a metres clearance from parked cars or the kerb.
-- Jeremy Lunn Melbourne, Australia Homepage: http://www.austux.net/
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