In article <3EF938FF.1010506@no-spam>, ryako@no-spam wrote:
>Basically I want to
>turn it on, do what I have to do then turn it off without fiddling around.
>
in that case, REALLY get a mac !
In article <newsgroups-14E05F.02305025062003@no-spam>,
Larry Fransson <newsgroups@no-spam> wrote:
> In article <3ef96165$0$26633$afc38c87@no-spam>,
> " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > MacOS X is a pig to setup with some type of ADSL and other tid-bits. And you
> > can forget about easy tricks doing some future advanced stuff.
>
> Say what? Setting up OS X with my broadband connections has always been
> an absolute no-brainer. Which easy tricks and future advanced stuff are
> we talking about? That's a little vague, to say the least.
Larry, since you've not come upon Miro, I suggest you do a little
googling. He's the king of unqualified assertions, and the instigator of
numerous flamewars in aus.photo. I haven't personally jousted with him,
since life's too short, but he's somewhat notorious in Australian news
groups.
In this subject, I can't pretend to be unbiased, since I've been a Mac
user since 1984, and I work in the film industry, which is very, very
strongly pro-Mac. But I will say that Miro's comment is rubbish: I
regularly set up Macs for DSL, Cable, ISDN, you name it, and they're
actually *easier* to set up than most PCs. They're largely virus-proof,
and - because of the vertically integrated nature of the hardware and OS
- it's generally easier to install software and hardware.
Also, getting a Mac running OSX to connect to a network of PCs is a
breeze. I wish I could say the same of Windows machines, although to be
fair XP is much better than earlier OSs.
The minuses for Macs are playing games, and to some extent using
financial applications. If those are big attractions for a user, I
advise against Macs. If you're at all creative, I strongly advise *for*
Macs.
In the case of the original poster, I don't know that it makes a lot of
difference one way or the other. If the major use is Word and Excel, I
suspect they'll get a better deal on a Windows machine. But if they want
to consider what they might want to do once they've got the machine, I
can point to a suite of consumer-grade applications: iPhoto, iTunes,
iMovie, that will make life so much easier than most of the stuff
available for Windows.
J.
Hi Sandgroper,
I tend to stay away from "platform debates" (to put it mildly), but I am
interested in your statements:
Sandgroper wrote:
(snipped)
> The short answer is
>
> 1) LESS than 10% of desktop computers in the world are Macs , so the
> other 80% of computers are PCs which means that the PCs are more popular
> and common , have a standardised type of interface , more available
> software applications , and you don't have the problem of converting Mac
> files/formats to PC files/formats when sharing files with other people.
The statistics of Macs being less than 10% and PC's being 80% of all the
computers in the world: is it based on 1. the total number of computers
still in active use, or 2, computer sales over a certain period?
If it is the former case, it would be hard to count all of them, and
besides, does firing up a 15-year-old computer every other month for a
nostalgic game of Pong or whatever count as a computer still in use?
If it is the latter case, then we have to consider the lifespan of the
computer itself. It is a fact that Macs remain productive for much longer
than PCs, where the average lifespan is six years rather than four, there
are still plenty of 68k machines doing the 9-5; I am not sure if PC users
would want to soldier on with their 286 machines. Therefore, the number if
Macs still in use would be several times more than the 10% as stated.
Regarding format conversion, the original poster did not say that she was
going to be generating files to be opened on Windows machines. With a copy
of MacLink Plus Deluxe, she could very well be Microsoft-free and no one
would know the difference; and then she could also just use SimpleText
generate text, even some simple word processing, and the resultant file can
be opened by anything. Mariner can also be used and it can open just about
any word processing file, and then save a file in any of two-dozen formats.
No, format conversion is not an issue for the Macintosh user, it is more of
a problem with the PC user and his complacency.
> 2) Upgrading , getting /replacing new hardware for Macs is more
> expensive than for PCs because the Mac hardware is proprietary
> hardware and Apple can charge what they want.
> Hardware improvements for the Macs are a lot slower than the PCs because
> the Macs are made by only one company and they use proprietary hardware
> , while the PC hardware is obtained from many different organisations
> and developers who are consistently attempting to develop and improve
> their products.
While I am sure that on the PC front the speed of hardware improvements
occur at a breakneck pace, this also shortens the life cycle of each
generation of products. While there are countless hardware developers
competing against each other, the final components they manufacture still
have to work with each other in the same box, and with Windows running the
show. While it is debatable whether upgrading Macs is more expensive than
PCs, it is not realistic to say that the Macintosh platform, being a
single-sourced product, is less effective than that of a product from many
sources because Windows is indeed a single-sourced product as well. For my
money I would rather have the lot from the same manufacturer who would
ensure everything works together, without the need for assemblers or myself
to orchestrate all the parts just to make them get on with each other.
This following link is a page which refers to something a little old, but
still worth a look perhaps:
http://www.mackido.com/Myths/Upgrades.html
> Get a PC , you will have less problems overall.
Following your argument, the resolution I can draw just happens to be quite
the opposite.
All the best,
Sam.
I'll go in the same direction than Vincent :
When you get a PC, consider that your main board, processor, video card, sound
card, modem, network card, screen, CD/DVD unit, keyboard, mouse and Operating
system are all manufactured by different companies. Are you calling that
standard? You CAN'T get a standard PC, you can't get a PC and be sure it will
work, because all the pieces are from different places.
When you get a MAC, you know that the complete setup is the same for EVERY Mac
that has the same name. I think THIS is standard, and that this is less worry
to get a Mac. I would not say that I hate PCs, because there's Linux, but I am
really sick of Windows users that are thinking that this is the best OS, and
the only. Windows is definitively not the best(I'd say one of the worse), and
not the only.
I'm a Mac and a PC user. These two types of computers are mainly different by
their way to consider the user. A PC will need more work on it, just to make
it run. A MAC is way more easy and simple to use. To answer your question,
Angela, I'd say that you should chose the computer(MAC/PC) you like, with the
operating system you like(MacOS/Linux). That's a matter of taste.
François
(Bonjour chez vous!)
Vincent Vega a écrit :
> In article <3ef9e0ea$0$11170@no-spam>,
> "Sandgroper" <steveray@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > The short answer is
> >
> > 1) LESS than 10% of desktop computers in the world are Macs , so the
> > other 80% of computers are PCs which means that the PCs are more popular
> > and common ,
>
> Just like McDonalds.
>
> > have a standardised type of interface ,
>
> You're kidding, right? The Mac will always win this one based on the
> fact that only one company sets the rules. You silly person.
>
> > more available
> > software applications ,
>
> Just how many word processers does one need, exactly?
>
> > and you don't have the problem of converting Mac
> > files/formats to PC files/formats when sharing files with other people.
>
> Still the most oft quoted non-reason out there. We Mac people don't need
> to do file translation as often as you all seem to think. The whole
> issue is slowing dying anyway with most file types becoming standarised
> all the time.
>
> > 2) Upgrading , getting /replacing new hardware for Macs is more
> > expensive than for PCs because the Mac hardware is proprietary
> > hardware and Apple can charge what they want.
>
> You obviously still don't grasp the concept of overall cost of ownership.
>
> > Hardware improvements for the Macs are a lot slower than the PCs because
> > the Macs are made by only one company and they use proprietary hardware
> > , while the PC hardware is obtained from many different organisations
> > and developers who are consistently attempting to develop and improve
> > their products.
>
> Yes, Apple never improves their products. Idiot.
>
> > Get a PC , you will have less problems overall.
>
> Laughable at best.
snip
<:
: SO, I hope it doesn't cause too much cross-platform conflict, I just
: want the facts
:
: Thanks
:
: Angela
:
: PS. A notebook is what I am after
I hate the way most versions of windows crash inexplicably, unpredictably
and unapologetically. I hate being at the mercy of a monolith such as
microsoft. So why do we have four Intel machines in the house and not one
Mac? The application that I use in making my living is written for windows
and will never be available for the Mac. Most scientific applications that
we use are written for windows or Linux or DOS. Not for the Mac and probably
not ever. It is easy for us to swap hard disks between machines, and I am
led to believe it is not easy with a Mac. I am surrounded by dozens of
windows users who might help me out of a problem at some stage, and I know
only one Mac user. So, much as I am impressed by all I hear about Macs, they
are not for me and probably never will be.
Having said all that, I imagine that the advice you will get from
knowledgable and unbiased users is that it doesn't matter much one way or
the other. Whatever you buy will probably do everything you want and a lot
that you have not yet dreamed of.
In article <ZYyKa.595$Py2.5825@no-spam>,
"Gazza Ozzie" <gazzaozzie@no-spam> wrote:
> End this discussion and now let the man make up his
> own mind.
Yo, Gazza, how many men do you know named Angela? :)
J.
In article <3ef96165$0$26633$afc38c87@no-spam>, Miro
<miro01@no-spam> wrote:
> <ryako@no-spam> wrote in message news:3EF938FF.1010506@no-spam
> > I don't want to start a Mac vs PC war here or anything but I need to
> > know the good and bad points about Mac and PC (Intel etc). I have done
> > some searching and the general consensus is that Mac users say Macs are
> > better and PCs are bad and vice versa for PC users about Macs etc. (you
> > get my drift).
> >
>
> I have both and all I can say is that a name brand PC running Office is much
> better integrated than Mac OS X will ever be.
could be true....
>
> The fact that Microsoft has PC's covered from end to end says a lot about
> the ease of use.
No it says alot about the power of marketing an inferioir product
>
> MacOS X is a pig to setup with some type of ADSL and other tid-bits. And you
> can forget about easy tricks doing some future advanced stuff.
>
where the hell did this come from?
> PC's can be upgraded cheaply, taught easily and cheaply and there are many
> people on here that can help.
Mac's can be upgraded cheaply, taught very easily and cheaply and there
are many people on here that can help.
>
> You will grow out of the "im a novice" really quick and before long you will
> wonder why you would need a Mac since it can only be serviced by ONE
> corporation compared to the hundreds of people who can service a PC.
>
What theF**k are you talking about?
Anyone can upgrade your mac, even you
There dozens of reliable mac repair places in sydney
Are there a dozen reliable PC repair places in sydney?
(Not too many i would trust)
> Dont assume you will always be ignorant. That lasts about 2 weeks.
>
>
Damian
In <p4lkfv88qosuj7o2fnedpqrc9150vk1mgc@no-spam> derek / nul wrote:
>>> Are you aware that MAC osX IS linux
>>
>>Har. I really want to know where you read that, and why you believe
>>everything you read.
>
> as pointed out by another its a port of freebsd
Of Mach, actually, with BSD compatibility.
--
Serwis Usenet w portalu Gazeta.pl -> http://www.gazeta.pl/usenet/
In article <3efadf24$0$20728@no-spam>,
"Sandgroper" <steveray@no-spam> wrote:
> With the two basic arguments I have made I wouldn't buy ANY produce if
> it was :
>
> 1) Used by only 10% of people
> 2) Proprietary hardware , dependant on only one company.
So I guess a Porsche is out of the question, then? ;)
J.
Hi Miro,
Miro wrote:
> >
> > 1. Open up computer (pull up latch on side then let it hinge downwards, no
> tool
> > needed)
> >
> > 2. Unclip processor heatsink.
> >
> > 3. Release ZIF socket latching lever.
> >
> > 4. Drop in new processor (no pressure required: hence Zero Insertion
> Force).
> >
> > 5. Click ZIF socket latching lever back into position.
> >
> > 6. Replace heatsink.
> >
> > 7. Close computer: push "drawbridge" door until it clicks.
> >
> > 8. Drink your coffee.
>
> And the cost ? Horendous.
At least Mac owners don't have to do it every four months.
In article <uSLKa.141$eR2.1328@no-spam>, Gazza Ozzie
<gazzaozzie@no-spam> wrote:
Snip>
>
> A PC can run numerous OS because it is an open hardware machine. Don't
> get Windows operating system confused with PC hardware. Although I can
> understand how Apple users have a problem distinguishing between
> hardware and OS as they have no choice as they have to used supplied
> OS on their machine. Most Apple users say this is a plus for their
> system - depends an how free you want to be to decide on how you use
> your machine. I can unplug the hard drive ( mounted in a cradle on
> front of PC) and plug in new one and have changed my OS - Windows XP,
> Windows 98, Linux, BeOS, BSD - try that with your MAC with out an
> emulator. It just goes to show the development that has gone into
> those OS as the majority (Windows and Linux in particular) can
> recognise and load drivers for all the internal hardware and connected
> peripherals.
Umm are you telling me that the Mac OS in embeded in in machine
somewhere and not on the hard drive????
Because i have just changed the hard drive in one of my machines 4
times and had a different OS every time.(checking the condition of the
drives)
>
> I could continue but no matter how much is said it is impossible to
> overcome fanaticism.
<Snip
Or ignorance
Why do people think they Know everything
Damian
>
In <8dTKa.531$eR2.5991@no-spam> Gazza Ozzie wrote:
> I now I know you write pure bullsh#t - you are wrong on all accounts.
> Check your facts and as for Apple suing Microsoft for copying
> interface design - Apple didn't own it.
Nirvana didn't own the rock'n'roll, but it does not mean you can record
"Smells like a teen spirit" under your name. Apple sued MS for copying
particular elements of interface designs and the court agreed that MS
ideed copied them; but also agreed to the statement made by MS lawyers
that the Scully-Gates agreement of late 80's allowed MS to do so.
> Was Xerox who invented the
> interface and they didn't copywrite or patent it so it is open for all
> to use.
Not at all. Apple paid Xerox in stock options for being allowed to see
their prototype technology. Returning to what your previous poster wrote:
yes, Apple needed no cash from MS, it had still large cash reserves. MS
needed Apple's consent in fear of the upcoming antitrust procedure.
Please do check your facts, for example by reading some book on history
of personal computers (I recommend "Fire In The Valley").
--
Serwis Usenet w portalu Gazeta.pl -> http://www.gazeta.pl/usenet/
ann bishop wrote:
> woodsie <none@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > In article <3EF938FF.1010506@no-spam>, ryako@no-spam wrote:
> >
> > >Basically I want to
> > >turn it on, do what I have to do then turn it off without fiddling around.
> > >
> >
> > in that case, REALLY get a mac !
>
> I'd agree I'm over 50 and I was a computer novice when I bought my first
> Mac and I found it very easy to use. I'm onto my 3rd Mac and wouldn't
> consider anything else.
> There is plenty of help to be found on the net if you should run into
> any trouble and you will find the Mac newsgroups in general to be
> friendly to newbies.
>
> --
> annieb
>
> anniebish@no-spam
My first computer was a second-hand Mac. I then decided to bite the bullet and
change to a PC because of the prohibitive cost (for me) of hardware and
software... back in the days when a single or dual spin cdrom cost hundreds of
dollars. So I bought myself a (gee whiz!) 386sx with 1mb of ram and (probably) a
20 or 40 mb or thereabouts hard disk.. and the best price I could get that marvel
of modern technology for was about $1,500! So I picked it up, and then they
handed me all these books, with strange names such as 'DOS' and 'GW Basic'. 'What
are all these for?' I asked in innocently. Well I soon found out. It was quite a
shock!
rgds,
Pete.
-----
In article <b57d6f59.0307250629.7feedb6b@no-spam>, farid
emam <faridemam@no-spam> wrote:
> Macs are disadvantaged as far as games are concerned (less titles
> available). Portable Macs are very,very nice (aesthetically) and this
> has to be factored in your decison! They are a bit more expensive than
> Windows notebooks, and the choice is limited (5 models on sale). MacOS
> is very pleasant to use, and not that different from Windows XP. I
> have an iBook for digital photo management and music.
Not necessarily......... in the August APC, they do a review of a bunch
of laptops...... anyway the 12" powerbook is one of the editors choice,
with great comments
- "Take a bow, Apple; and everyone else, take notes."
- "A near perfect blend of power, size and looks"
Anyway - their only bad point is "relatively expensive" -although at
$3499 (with superdrive) it is actually one of the cheaper computers
they reviewed (and many dearer ones didn't get knocked for price
either)..........
I was pleasantly surprised as to their price, and will be putting one
on my desk soon :), makes my old 1998 powerbook 166MHz @no-spam $5500 seem a
bit pricey! still paying that bastard off.......
lee
"germ" <germinator@no-spam> wrote in message
news:260720031847370191%germinator@no-spam
: In article <1059032400.412681@no-spam>, Tony Turner
: <tonyt@no-spam> wrote:
:
: > :
: > : And which application is that?
: > : I am a scientist, used Macs all my life, and have all the apps I need.
: > : Invariably, those apps run better on Mac than Windows.
: >
: > No doubt. But I have spoken to the authors of some of the apps we use,
and
: > they tell me that they will not be written for the Mac.
:
: In that case, would it be doable for you to switch to an app that is
: available for Mac?
No
: > :
: > : > It is easy for us to swap hard disks between machines, and I am
: > : > led to believe it is not easy with a Mac.
: > :
: > : You are being misled.
: >
: > Perhaps so. I just can't see the slot in the Mac machine where you
slide a
: > hard disk in and out. It may be at the back of the box somewhere.
:
: Well, I can't see that slot on PCs either..... Are you referring to
: some sort of custom removable IDE enclosure? AFAIK, no PC comes
: standard with those.
$30 from Jaycar.
: >
: > You lose me a bit when you mention prejudices. What I wrote was in
answer to
: > a request for an unbiased opinion and the thrust of my answer was that
for
: > the person asking the question, it probably didn't matter much. For my
part,
: > far from being prejudiced in favour of windows I merely acknowledge that
: > they have me by the gonads. Also, for my part, my not at all typical
part,
: > lots of research suggests MY best way of loosening that grip a little is
via
: > Linux.
:
: Sorry for implying you were prejudiced. It was my attempt to make you
: break out of Windows, which you seem reluctant to do (maybe for good
: reasons, or reasons that you think are good).
: Linux is a possibility, but in my experience it is still not there. I
: tried installing it on a PC with unsupported graphic card, and it was a
: nigthmare. Also, it's lacking a serious and viable deskop environment,
: IMHO.
It would cost me, what, a couple of thousand to give the Mac a try and I
already know that whatever I do it is not the complete answer. There are
some things, as I mentioned, that only windows or DOS will handle. For those
I will always need some kind of windows machine. For all the other things
that I do regularly, my thirty dollar, four CD, Mandrake 9.1 Linux, with
its two GUIs is adequate. It has come a long way in the last year. The
desktop owes much to Apple (as does windows of course) and most of Unix's
command-line structure is now rendered unnecessary. It comes with everything
you would expect, plus StarOffice, and a C++ which between them represent
over a thousand dollars that wondersoft will never see from me. Plus a
gazillion other free things that I will never need, understand, or know
about.
I use one box with two different slide-in hard drives, one for win and the
other for Linux. I feel that the added complication of dual-partitioned
single drive is best avoided. (when a drive fails, I lose only one OS)
My acceptance of Linux has not been overnight. Twenty years ago I scorned
Unix as "having 'Undergraduate' written all over it."
But I am not an enthusiast for any operating system. I am a pragmatist. I
am certainly not about to proselytise anyone.
:
: --
: germ Remove "nospam" to reply
> But I am not an enthusiast for any operating system. I am a pragmatist. I
> am certainly not about to proselytise anyone.
> --------------------------
> :
> : --
> : germ Remove "nospam" to reply
>
>
proselytise! cool - I have just added another word to my vocab, now to
try and use it in conversation............
you had me reaching for the dictionary!
lee
> > : Well, I can't see that slot on PCs either..... Are you referring to
> > : some sort of custom removable IDE enclosure? AFAIK, no PC comes
> > : standard with those.
> >
> > $30 from Jaycar.
>
>
> OK, I don't understand the need for removable IDE drives, with their
> prices now so low. From the way most Powermacs are built, it is
> difficult to fit such an enclosure. It could probably be done on the
> latest MDD towers (which have space for two optical drives). If you
> really need/want to be set up that way, I guess you are better off with
> a PC. You probably represent less than 0.01% of computer users. It
> shouldn't be too difficult to give this up.
>
>
What about external firewire drives, fairly portable, we put ours in my
wifes handbag when we go away...... nice to have all your data with
you.....
"germ" <germinator@no-spam> wrote in message
news:040820032140477681%germinator@no-spam
: In article <1fz7133.fwo1781jcpur0N%mikael.lastname@no-spam>, Mikael
: Bystroem <mikael.lastname@no-spam> wrote:
:
: > germ <germinator@no-spam> wrote:
: >
: > > > And I could easily give other examples (if anyone really
: > > > wants more, try astrology,
: > >
: > > glad there is NO software for macs here ;-)
: >
: > Does this mean you're also glad there are so many violenceglorifying
: > games both for the PC and the Mac?
:
: I couldn't care less: I do not play videogames.
: I have nothing against games, "violenceglorifynig" or not.
: My personal opinion of people who play videogames is not very high.
:
:
: > Or maybe you're glad there are
: > arguably more games per se, including violenceglorifying ones, on the
: > PC?
:
: I don't care about games.
:
:
: >
: > Either way, a lack of options are at the end of the day a lack of
: > options. For those interested in the <whatever> area the lack does
: > matter and if you're not interested in it, it should not be beneficial
: > to you that here exists a lack. Or maybe you're a closet sadist?
: >
: > Unlike you, I do not celebrate a lack of software that others may be
: > interested in. For example Apple decided to remove Emagic Logic for PC
: > users, and as many PC's are for the time being better music making
: > machines than OS X ones, in most performance areas but one (latency) I
: > find that a detrimental (albeit understandable) move. Let's hope though
: > this issue with what platform is the best music making one will be
: > switched around this time next year.
: > The point is still that I do not celebrate a lack of software titles as
: > something good, no matter what platform. I have little understanding
: > that you do.
:
:
: You are taking whis waaaaay too seriously. It was meant as a joke, but
: yes, I despise astrology and all people who practice it, especially
: those who make money out of people's ignorance.
It is unkind of you to denigrate those who believe in astrology, and for
those who DO believe in astrology, denigrate means "put down."
: --
: germ Remove "nospam" to reply