AUS PHOTO 38 ZEISS SOFTAR
From: "[BnH]" (b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus)
Subject: Zeiss Softar
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:02:42 +1000


Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus maybe?] ? :)
Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a person's face .

=bob=

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From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 25 Jun 2003 19:07:28 +0800

"[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> writes:

> Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > maybe?] ? :)
> Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > person's face .

That's called a lens cap, isn't it?

B>


From: "Russell Stewart" (adpotd@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:27:28 +1000

"[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message news:3ef98138$0$31498$5a62ac22@no-spam > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > maybe?] ? :)
> Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > person's face .

Try Clear Skin from www.mediachance.com ...it does wonders at removing imperfections.


From: "[BnH]" (b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:56:36 +1000

LOL :)

C'mon .. anyone ?

=bob=

"Bruce Murphy" <pack-news@no-spam> wrote in message news:m2llvqs9e7.fsf@no-spam > "[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> writes:
>
> > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > > maybe?] ? :)
> > Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > > person's face .
>
> That's called a lens cap, isn't it?
>
> B>

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From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:46:09 +1000

"[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message news:3ef9942e$0$31518$5a62ac22@no-spam > err. that's digital :(
>
> i want analog :)
>
> =bob=

For the last 100 years before 1980 it was a UVa + stockings or Vaseline.


From: "Valar" (remove@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:56:45 +1000

"[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message news:3ef98138$0$31498$5a62ac22@no-spam > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > maybe?] ? :)
> Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > person's face .
>
> =bob=
>

At the risk of offending all dSLR shooters, thats see how well this goes as a joke: try shooting with a crappy lens, or just dont USM ;)
(ah, the same cannot be said of shooting with crappy film SLRs, because you also pick up heaps o grain/noise from film itself or scanning)


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:20:42 +1000

"Valar" <remove@no-spam> wrote in message news:bdc6ch$988$1@no-spam >
> "[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message > news:3ef98138$0$31498$5a62ac22@no-spam > > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > > maybe?] ? :)
> > Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > > person's face .
> >
> > =bob=
> >
>
> At the risk of offending all dSLR shooters, thats see how well this goes as > a joke: try shooting with a crappy lens, or just dont USM ;)

A bad lens doesnt have good contrast or colour balance. Whereas a good lens does even when soft.


From: "Derek" (doleary@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:15:21 GMT

he's right on that one
" > A bad lens doesnt have good contrast or colour balance. Whereas a good lens > does even when soft.
>
>


From: "Auspics" (just@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:31:30 GMT

Miro was right about the stocking over the lens thing.
I used to fog a UV filter by breathing on it sometimes and if you use petroleum jelly you can get quite mild effects. There's a filter you can buy to soften an image. I sometimes use star filters which only produce a star from bright highlights... Of course there are none in portraiture so the softening effect does help. "Duto" filter, I think is the name of the filter most closely matching a softar lens.
JT
"[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message news:3ef98138$0$31498$5a62ac22@no-spam > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > maybe?] ? :)
> Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > person's face .
>
> =bob=
>
>
>
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From: "Derek" (doleary@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:39:40 GMT

I've got a "Fotar Diffusion 55mm", yields quite a nice soft focus effect on portraits, if that's any good to you
"[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message news:3ef98138$0$31498$5a62ac22@no-spam > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > maybe?] ? :)
> Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > person's face .
>
> =bob=
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003
>
>


From: "[BnH]" (b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:44:48 +1000

Actually any size would be good if the price is right as I am only using it to test out the filters.
And eventually will buy one as filter from pro get worn off after a while :(

Anyway if you have, any 52 | 58 | 67 | 72 | 77 mm would be fine.

=bob=

"Derek" <doleary@no-spam> wrote in message news:WSAKa.795$Py2.8387@no-spam > might be a good idea if you actually mention the filter size you need, I > might have something.
>
> "[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message > news:3ef98138$0$31498$5a62ac22@no-spam > > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > > maybe?] ? :)
> > Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > > person's face .
> >
> > =bob=

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From: "Valar" (remove@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:34:06 +1000

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote in message news:3efa041d$0$26636$afc38c87@no-spam >
> "Valar" <remove@no-spam> wrote in message > news:bdc6ch$988$1@no-spam > >
> > "[BnH]" <b18ATiinetDOTnetDOTaus> wrote in message > > news:3ef98138$0$31498$5a62ac22@no-spam > > > Anyone want to offload their Zeiss Softar or equivalent [Hoya Soft Focus > > > maybe?] ? :)
> > > Heard its a magic filter that will eliminate all the imperfection in a > > > person's face .
> > >
> > > =bob=
> > >
> >
> > At the risk of offending all dSLR shooters, thats see how well this goes > as > > a joke: try shooting with a crappy lens, or just dont USM ;)
>
> A bad lens doesnt have good contrast or colour balance. Whereas a good lens > does even when soft.

softness is simply interpreted by the brain as being low contrast, due to the reduction in high spatial frequency. The unintentional softness is created by the inferior optical quality, sort of like astigmatism, the same is acheived by using a soft filter to filter out the high spatial frequency,
no?

PS. I wish i was a physics major, so i'd understand optics better.


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:50:58 +1000

"Valar" <remove@no-spam> wrote in message news:bdg83s$s0g$1@no-spam >
> " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote in message > news:3efb8636$0$26639$afc38c87@no-spam > <snip>
> > Spatial frequency is a "fluffy" word at best as it does not corelate > > percptual to lateral inhibition of the retina. It is in the retina that > > "softness" is determined. The visual cortex integrates the information and > > signals the brain with fewer "hard edges" than usual.
> >
> > PS: I am a neuroscience major, so I'd understand the brain better.
> >
>
> Arh, in that case do you mind if I ask you a few neurophys questions because > ive got a neurophys exam coming? ;)
>
> My understanding is that the ganglion cells that code for different spatial > frequencies are divided up in the LGN by going to different layers of the > LGN, and that the lateral inhibition occuring on the retinal level is more > like sharpening to achieve maximal contrast/acuity. obviously our eyes > interpret differently something as being intrinsically soft or something > that is out of focus, perhaps by totally different mechanisms, one is by > detecting high-spatial freq in the higher cortical level, and the other > happens at lower level due to retinal blur- near triad (thats why im still a > little bit confused about, how does the brain know whether something is > intrinsically soft- if theres such a thing in real life, and something as > being out of focus, does it try to focus it first, and determine to be soft > if focus is to no avail?)

Firstly you must consider the role of binocular vision and integration.
Secondly the brain does not know softness at all. It only knows hard boundaries. Therefore the lack of hard boundaries is a fuzzy level of information which is difficult to integrate.

>
> Now without knowing much about the physics, putting a softar filter on is > essentially putting on a high-frequency filter on to eliminate the high-f > info, and then our brain will interpret it as being soft by lack of high f.
> I argue the same occurs when you use an inferior lens, seeing how it doesn't > record high f with great fidelity, but as we all know the contrast is crap > on crap lenses due to coating etc, but again, how does our brain know the > difference between softar & crap lens? tonality? but what is tonality to our > brain if theres so much edge detection and lateral inhibition going on in > the background to sharpen our visual perception anyway? (and how about those > portrait lenses that are naturally soft?)

Since we work in colour that becomes relevant to definition. Consider this same function in poor light where the fovea does not function. Then it is entirely determined by monochromatic rods. The large integration of rods is responsible for increased acuity and therefore greater sensitivity but as always lower definition.

contrast has several defining features, it is colour transition, spatial position and boundaries. It think that the image be it softer or fuzzy depending on the lens, is encoded on all of these levels.

Chromatic abberation seen in poor lenses detracts from tonal uniformity and blurs edges such as eyelash, facial features and subtle lighting effects.
Poor lenses introduce artifacts which are entirely apart from the function of the softar. The absence of artifacts is apparent to even an untrained person.

To me ..... in my way of looking at things ..... soft lenses add white to a scene.

In a nutshell ....... the brain is responsible for the perception not the filter. The filter modifies the product to the satisfaction of the eye.


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:40:20 +1000

>
> Have you heard of a Fourier transform? How about the Fourier transform of > a square wave? And what happens when you try and approximate a square wave > by successive sinusoids?
>

I understand what a Fourier transformation is but in all honesty I dont think anyone asserts that is how the brain is controlled.

As for your very fuzzy notion of "nobody knows how it happens" - I think there is a class distinction between the molecular transformation and the process.

In 2003 you can easily win a Nobel Prize for describing the process and not be the least bit informed on the mechanism. This is the distinction you are making and it doesnt hold any weight. It is perfectly valid to attribute functions to a region of the brain and not know how or why it is possible.


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:44:40 +1000

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote in message news:3efc2b6f$0$26633$afc38c87@no-spam >
> > And when precisely did you finish studying neuroscince and start > > washing testtubes, becuase a lot of the interesting research > > about precisely /where/ these things happen (And it's not well > > understood, despite your assertions) has happened quite recently.

I hold Majors in several science fields. I also hold several Minors.


From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 27 Jun 2003 23:41:26 +0800

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:

> >
> > Have you heard of a Fourier transform? How about the Fourier transform of > > a square wave? And what happens when you try and approximate a square wave > > by successive sinusoids?
> >
> > I understand what a Fourier transformation is but in all honesty I dont > think anyone asserts that is how the brain is controlled.

Alright, so you can't see any relation between spatial frequencies are hard edges. That's fair enough, I doubt you deal with fourier space much while you're washing test-tubes. HOwever, your lack of understanding doesn't prevent their being intimately related. See my square-wave case in point.

> As for your very fuzzy notion of "nobody knows how it happens" - I think > there is a class distinction between the molecular transformation and the > process.

That's nice, but since noone knows what the hell happens between the level fo about two neurons and the top where we have some vague models, your statements are still meaningless.

> In 2003 you can easily win a Nobel Prize for describing the process and not > be the least bit informed on the mechanism. This is the distinction you are > making and it doesnt hold any weight. It is perfectly valid to attribute > functions to a region of the brain and not know how or why it is possible.

It's not currently open to disproof, but that doesn' tmake it any less a stupid statement based on tiny scraps of information that don't fit together.

In short, you don't know, and neither does anyone else.

B>


From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 27 Jun 2003 23:42:17 +0800

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:

> " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote in message > news:3efc2b6f$0$26633$afc38c87@no-spam > >
> > > And when precisely did you finish studying neuroscince and start > > > washing testtubes, becuase a lot of the interesting research > > > about precisely /where/ these things happen (And it's not well > > > understood, despite your assertions) has happened quite recently.
> > I hold Majors in several science fields. I also hold several Minors.

Tell you what, why don't you tell us precisely what they are /now/ and then we can point and laugh at you when you next invent a new one.

No? Don't want to commit yourself?

B>


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:56:31 +1000

"Bruce Murphy" <pack-news@no-spam> wrote in message news:m27k77le7a.fsf@no-spam > " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:
>
> > " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:3efc2b6f$0$26633$afc38c87@no-spam > > >
> > > > And when precisely did you finish studying neuroscince and start > > > > washing testtubes, becuase a lot of the interesting research > > > > about precisely /where/ these things happen (And it's not well > > > > understood, despite your assertions) has happened quite recently.
> >
> > I hold Majors in several science fields. I also hold several Minors.
>
> Tell you what, why don't you tell us precisely what they are /now/ and > then we can point and laugh at you when you next invent a new one.
>
> No? Don't want to commit yourself?
>

You are a jerk bruce. I happen to have gained 3 in the last year whilst you were pounding your pelvis with your idealism.


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:57:26 +1000

>
> In short, you don't know, and neither does anyone else.
>
> B>

You really are the love child of Rod Speed.


From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 28 Jun 2003 20:03:50 +0800

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:

> "Bruce Murphy" <pack-news@no-spam> wrote in message > news:m27k77le7a.fsf@no-spam > > " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:
> >
> > > " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:3efc2b6f$0$26633$afc38c87@no-spam > > > >
> > > > > And when precisely did you finish studying neuroscince and start > > > > > washing testtubes, becuase a lot of the interesting research > > > > > about precisely /where/ these things happen (And it's not well > > > > > understood, despite your assertions) has happened quite recently.
> > >
> > > I hold Majors in several science fields. I also hold several Minors.
> >
> > Tell you what, why don't you tell us precisely what they are /now/ and > > then we can point and laugh at you when you next invent a new one.
> >
> > No? Don't want to commit yourself?
> >
> > You are a jerk bruce. I happen to have gained 3 in the last year whilst you > were pounding your pelvis with your idealism.

3 Majors in one year, eh? And how many dozen does this make in total? Now why don't you tell us precisely what these majors are and then we can all go look them up next time you claim to be qualified in yet another field.

Well? surely that's a pretty reasonable request. You're a bit old to be doing a degree now though, aren't you? Or isn't there an age requirement on cereal boxes anymore.

B>


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:16:38 +1000

>
> 3 Majors in one year, eh? And how many dozen does this make in total? Now > why don't you tell us precisely what these majors are and then we can all > go look them up next time you claim to be qualified in yet another field.
>
> Well? surely that's a pretty reasonable request. You're a bit old to be > doing a degree now though, aren't you? Or isn't there an age requirement > on cereal boxes anymore.

Like always you show your true ignorance by being unduely sceptical. What does it take to convert a minor into a major ? How many years or should I say months does that take ?

I would be happy to let the relevant professors decide what I am qualified to at. You on the other hand are quick to assert your critical mind and prove that dogmas do exist.

Have you been formally trained or did you get your validation from standing in the aisles of Dymocks.


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:39:45 +1000

>
> When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you claim > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > pathological self-aggrandiser.
>
> B>

Get stuffed.


From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 29 Jun 2003 21:49:53 +0800

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:

> >
> > When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you claim > > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > > pathological self-aggrandiser.
> > Get stuffed.

No, I wasn't expecting you to come clean. Ah well, it'll just be a manner of time, you know, since you can't help yourself and always leap into a discussion claiming ot have invented it, or recently,
having a major in it.

You should keep notes, you're not a very effective troll.

B>


From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 29 Jun 2003 22:04:34 +0800

Rob <audiobANTISPAM@no-spam> writes:

> Bruce Murphy wrote:
> > > When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you claim > > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > > pathological self-aggrandiser.
> > Is that the royal "we"?
I include all the other people who have made sarcastic remarks about Miros claims to have, for example, introduced the internet into Australia.

B>


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:08:19 +1000

> > > When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you claim > > > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > > > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > > > pathological self-aggrandiser.
> >
> > Get stuffed.
>
> No, I wasn't expecting you to come clean.

You are a nobody from nowhere, hardly the sort of person I confide in.


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:14:47 +1000

"Bruce Murphy" <pack-news@no-spam> wrote in message news:m2wuf52d59.fsf@no-spam > Rob <audiobANTISPAM@no-spam> writes:
>
> > Bruce Murphy wrote:
> >
> > > When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you claim > > > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > > > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > > > pathological self-aggrandiser.
> >
> > Is that the royal "we"?
>
> I include all the other people who have made sarcastic remarks about > Miros claims to have, for example, introduced the internet into > Australia.
>

Dont bother Rob, Bruce has it in his head that nothing goes on in Australia unless he does it. Not only can he not cite properly but he ridicules the truth as all fools do.


From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 29 Jun 2003 22:29:44 +0800

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:

> > > > When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you claim > > > > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > > > > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > > > > pathological self-aggrandiser.
> > >
> > > Get stuffed.
> >
> > No, I wasn't expecting you to come clean.
> > You are a nobody from nowhere, hardly the sort of person I confide in.

The entirety of aus.photo watches you refuse to tell us what all these 'majors' of yours that you've suddenly developed actually are. Why precisely are you refusing? Apart from the obvious, that is.

B>


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:56:31 +1000

"Bruce Murphy" <pack-news@no-spam> wrote in message news:m2smpt2bzb.fsf@no-spam > " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:
>
> > > > > When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you claim > > > > > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > > > > > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > > > > > pathological self-aggrandiser.
> > > >
> > > > Get stuffed.
> > >
> > > No, I wasn't expecting you to come clean.
> >
> > You are a nobody from nowhere, hardly the sort of person I confide in.
>
> The entirety of aus.photo watches you refuse to tell us what all these > 'majors' of yours that you've suddenly developed actually are. Why > precisely are you refusing? Apart from the obvious, that is.
>
> B>

Because you are a jerk.


From: Bruce Murphy (pack-news@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: 29 Jun 2003 23:09:48 +0800

" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:

> "Bruce Murphy" <pack-news@no-spam> wrote in message > news:m2smpt2bzb.fsf@no-spam > > " Miro" <miro01@no-spam> writes:
> >
> > > > > > When you're ready to describe precisely what these 'majors' you > claim > > > > > > to have gotten are, why don't you tell us, otherwise we'll all > > > > > > continue along our standard path, which is assuming you're a > > > > > > pathological self-aggrandiser.
> > > > >
> > > > > Get stuffed.
> > > >
> > > > No, I wasn't expecting you to come clean.
> > >
> > > You are a nobody from nowhere, hardly the sort of person I confide in.
> >
> > The entirety of aus.photo watches you refuse to tell us what all these > > 'majors' of yours that you've suddenly developed actually are. Why > > precisely are you refusing? Apart from the obvious, that is.

> Because you are a jerk.

So, in summary you're saying that you aren't going to back up your wild claims becuase you prefer random personal attacks?

At least you're consistent.

B>


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:15:58 +1000

>
> So, in summary you're saying that you aren't going to back up your wild > claims becuase you prefer random personal attacks?
>
> At least you're consistent.
>
> B>

No, I basically dont have any regard for your opinion. I suspect that comes easily for you, but I can assure you that I have regard for the opinion of my garbage collector, so in your case it was earned.


From: "Auspics" (just@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 20:47:19 GMT

Actually I thought Bruce had some degree of understanding of many things.
Unfortunately he turned out to be so bigoted in his opinion as to attempt assertion in areas he has no ability.

Clearly he is out of his depth trying to slug it out with a master troll. To feed the trolls and then actually think he can have the last word... Is clear demonstration of his inability to grasp the basic concept of Newsgroups-for-entertainment. Another Miro specialty.

Miro may or may not have introduced the Internet to Australia but he has certainly grasped the fundamentals of using Usenet for entertainment. All Bruce has achieved is higher blood pressure and some degree of scorn from the community.
JT
" Miro" <miro01@no-spam> wrote in message news:3efef45a$0$26636$afc38c87@no-spam >
> Dont bother Rob, Bruce has it in his head that nothing goes on in Australia > unless he does it. Not only can he not cite properly but he ridicules the > truth as all fools do.
>
>


From: " Miro" (miro01@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Zeiss Softar
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:18:22 +1000

"Auspics" <just@no-spam> wrote in message news:rfILa.10$VH3.980@no-spam > Actually I thought Bruce had some degree of understanding of many things.
> Unfortunately he turned out to be so bigoted in his opinion as to attempt > assertion in areas he has no ability.
>
> Clearly he is out of his depth trying to slug it out with a master troll.
To > feed the trolls and then actually think he can have the last word... Is > clear demonstration of his inability to grasp the basic concept of > Newsgroups-for-entertainment. Another Miro specialty.
>
> Miro may or may not have introduced the Internet to Australia but he has > certainly grasped the fundamentals of using Usenet for entertainment. All > Bruce has achieved is higher blood pressure and some degree of scorn from > the community.
> JT
And now its over to Tracy for the weather.