On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:23:40 -0700, Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
>
>>> So let me get this straight: if we neglect to remove one brutal murderous
>>> dictator, then it is wrong for us to remove ANY brutal murderous dictator?
>>> Is that what you are saying here?
>
>> The UN Charter does NOT allow for "regime change". This is why the lie of
>> WMD was used.
>
>PISS on the U.N.!!! Usually they are just useless and irrelevant, but this
>time they were downright dangerous to the security of the U.S. and of the
>civilised world. The U.N. should be disbanded.
Really? In what way was Iraq a danger to the security of the US
and of the "civilised" world? No weapons of mass destruction
found.... the USA lying to the UN security council. The USA is a
danger to the world.
>> Why won't you admit that the USA wanted to control Iraq's oil?
>
>Because petrol is still selling for US$1.79 per US gallon (3.78 litres fluid
>measure) in Los Angeles. That works out to about AU$0.71 per litre at
>current exchange rates. Now this might not sound very dear to you, but I
>would consider US$1.29/gal. (AU$0.51 per litre) much more reasonable.
Wow! No wonder Americans are dying of respiratory diseases and
we are suffering the effects of greenhouse gas emissions.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:33:13 -0700, Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
>
>>> PISS on the U.N.!!! Usually they are just useless and irrelevant, but
>>> this time they were downright dangerous to the security of the U.S. and of
>>> the civilised world. The U.N. should be disbanded.
>
>> "Dangerous"?
>
>Yes, absolutely.
Prove it.
>> The only thing dangerous to the U.S. is the government at its head.
>
>As when headed by such as Bill Clinton, for whom getting head is apparently
>much more important than the security of the country.
Gee... blowjobs are more dangerous than weapons of mass
destruction and deliberately lying so that thousands will die in
a war of aggression.
>> The UN is the only thing preventing our country from invading many more
>> countries without accountability.
>
>And more's the pity, which is one more reason for disbanding it.
...gee, this bloke thinks that Iraq is better off now?
>> What I do find fascinating is how our government succeeded in creating a
>> myth that Iraq was actually dangerous.
>
>The Government of Canada created a "myth" that Iraq was dangerous? Luckily,
>the U.S. government does not act upon myths that are dear to Canadian hearts
>(such as that people of divergent cultures can somehow live together in
>harmony), but rather takes a more realistic view of things -- such as the
>FACT that an Iraq headed by Saddam Hussein represented a threat to world --
>and to U.S. -- security.
Repeating GWBush's lies without providing proof does your case
no good at all. Iraq didn't even have an airforce, how the fuck
could they be a danger to ANY other country?
>> Al Qaeda in bed with Iraq? No proof.
>
>For one who refuses to acknowledge it. But the facts of it are in plain
>view.
But you cannot provide them of course.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."
"Theodore A. Kaldis" <kaldis@no-spam> wrote in inimitable
style:
> "Winston Smith, American Patriot" wrote:
>
>> Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
>>> ralph wrote:
>>>> "Winston Smith, American Patriot" wrote:
>
>>>>> Hey hypocrite:
>
>>>>> I see that the peoples of a couple of African countries --
>>>>> petroleum- poor, in case you were wondering -- are needing
>>>>> liberation.
>
>>>>> Why don't you put on that soldier's uniform of yours, grab your
>>>>> gun, and go and give them their freedom?
>
>>>>> I am told that the brutal murdering dictators are warming up the
>>>>> bulldozers now, so if you hurry, you can put a stop to this
>>>>> atrocity.
>
>>> So let me get this straight: if we neglect to remove one brutal
>>> murderous dictator, then it is wrong for us to remove ANY brutal
>>> murderous dictator? Is that what you are saying here?
>
> Please note that this question goes unanswered.
The question was answered in the previous response, in the text below.
You might want to consider developing an ability for logical inference.
>> The United States has done more than merely to neglect removing
>> brutal dictators. They have INSTALLED them!!
>
> And I gather that you are able to support this statement? Or are we
> expected to accept it at face value merely at your word?
You might want to look up who the Shah of Iran and Pinochet of Chile are,
and the role of the United States in putting them in power. You may also
want to ask yourself why the United States did not see fit to depose the
regimes of the brutal dictators Armas of Guatemala, Somoza of Nicaragua,
and Marcos of the Philippines, instead of calling them "friends" and
"allies." Is that enough support for you?
>> The United States no longer has any moral authority to decide what
>> country is led and not led by certain people.
>
> And thankfully, neither has the United States ever acted upon or even
> asserted such authority. (But on the other hand, luckily we have the
> firepower to do so should the need ever arise.)
You seem to be confused here. The invasion of Iraq was not about the
United States defending itself according the international law. The
invasion of Iraq would have been legal if the U.S. had been defending
itself against an actual attack---that makes the Afghanistan war against
the Taliban legal, in fact----or against the clear and present danger of
attack. The mere demonstration of WMD in Iraq was insufficient: Bush
actually had to show that the WMD were to be used by Saddam/Iraq. The
very last assertion was preposterous, given the historical record.
That means that the invasion of Iraq was only about one thing: what Bush
asserts to be the toppling of a dictator to prevent the oppression his
own people. That means that the United States conducted war/invasion for
the purpose of deciding who would or would not be the leader of Iraq
(this statement added because of your inability to make inferences).
Thus I refer you to the statement where I said the U.S. no longer has any
moral authority to decide what country is led and not led by certain
people.
>> Besides, international law forbids nations from deciding the leaders
>> of other nations.
>
> International "law" is a fiction. It's a shame that you still believe
> in fairy tales.
International law is not respected, which is why you call it a fiction.
Laws require a respectable enforcement mechanism---a policeman with
authority, not merely power----and there is no such mechanism in place
other than the outrage of powerful nations that band together from time
to time to put down a bully. Prior to the Iraqi invasion the United
States was part of that moral outrage of respectability. Now the bully
is the United States.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:13:48 -0700, Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
>Gregory Shearman wrote:
>
>> Theodore A. Kaldis wrote:
>
>>>> Al Qaeda in bed with Iraq? No proof.
>
>>> For one who refuses to acknowledge it. But the facts of it are in plain
>>> view.
>
>> But you cannot provide them of course.
>
>I did:
>
> <http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm>
>
>And you snipped it, given that you are dishonest.
Gee, why don't you provide this "proof" to the UN? I'm sure
they'll appreciate it?
Dishonest indeed!
--
Regards,
Gregory.
"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."
"Boy and soldiers die in more Iraq violence"
- 29/6/2003
Looks like the news in this most unequal struggle from foreign
domination and against oil plunder continues as it began. Saddam is
defeated, but the TexIraqi's are not being freed, and they are starting
to shoot back at the invaders who have merely replaced Saddam
in ruling over them;
"An American soldier has been killed in an ambush on a convoy
and another shot in the neck as he browsed a Baghdad market, "
These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy increased
when we took these things from them.
" while US forces accidentally killed an 11-year-old boy in the
latest cycle of guerilla attacks and ever-tougher US crackdowns in
occupied Iraq."
They built up armaments and pretexts for months before coming
half way round the globe to bomb and destroy Iraqi infrastructure,
kill over 30,000 Iraqi citizens, plunder their national resources,
unleash
anarchy, and sewerage, upon the streets, shoot demonstrators, impose
a puppet regime and then, when they kill another child, they call it
an 'accident' B^p
Murdering people for oil is one thing, refusing to take responsibility
for the disasterous consequences of your actions is even more
reprehensible..
"Ambushes have killed at least three US soldiers in the past two days,
with a fourth dying in a non-combat accident yesterday. Two other US
soldiers remain missing, three days after their apparent abduction north of
Baghdad."
The warm response to occupation by the new regime of TexIraq is now
producing greater casualties than before Bush's last lie that the
'fighting was
over', and the bodybag count from opposition to occupation is almost
as great as that from friendly fire.
"Late yesterday, attackers fired on a US convoy in the Thawra neighbourhood
of Baghdad, killing an American soldier and wounding four others, military
spokesman
Sergeant Patrick Compton said. An Iraqi interpreter was also wounded."
The locals continue to make the new TexIraq regime welcome, and show
their gratitude for foreign occupation, oil pillage and ongoing control
by the culturally sensitive stormtroopers who bring sniffer dogs into
womens
quarters.
"Saboteurs have also been attacking the capital's power grid and oil
pipelines,
foiling coalition efforts to restore services as temperatures climb as high
as 47 degrees."
So, not only has trillions been squandered, Iraq littered with thousands
of
tons of depleted uranium (the USSA brought it's own WMD's after all)
and 30,000 people been slaughtered to fly the Texaco flag above TexIraqi
oilfields, but it has created a whole new group of people who were not
a threat, not shooting Merkins, but now are!
Way to go George! The only president dumber than Ronald Raygun!
"These are guys who want us to fail. They'd rather see their country burn
than have it succeed," said Major Scott Slaten of the US Army.
Did someone say 'Vietnam'? Anyone in the White House heard of the
terms ' Kamikaze', desperate, fanatic, suicide bomber, orphan?
Have they forgotten their own slogan already; "Better Dead than Red',
or are they really so stupid as to think other peoples don't want
freedom
and self-determination, only Merkins?
A group of US policy experts left Washington yesterday to carry out a
review of postwar Iraq. The group, led by John Hamre, a former deputy
defence secretary in the Clinton administration, will report to US Defence
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chief US administrator in Iraq, Paul
Bremer.
"This team was not dispatched to go rescue Bremer, because Bremer
does not need rescuing," said Lawrence Di Rita, acting Assistant Secretary
of Defence.
In Washington, Mr Rumsfeld refused to attribute violence against US
soldiers to guerilla warfare, instead blaming scattered, disorganised
remnants of the Baath regime."
So how come any street interview CNN does shows a disheveled
and fed up 'liberated' citizen of Texiraq proclaiming "They must go
home!"
only to have another add "They must go NOW!" ??
Thanks for chasing Saddam .. out? back to your place? somewhere?
but don't stick around to become more like him every day.
But why would the USSA listen to the TexIraqis, anymore than
they did to the Vietnamese, they are on a crusade for cheap fuel
and they have the guns, and 'speak for everyone', especially the
colonials without guns;
"It's been accurately portrayed that the major combat has been
concluded and that there are a lot of Baathists and Fedayeen
Saddam still in the country that are associated closely with
Saddam Hussein," he said. "The coalition is taking every
step possible to root them out."
US Lieutenant-General John Abizaid, soon to replace General
Tommy Franks as head of US Central Command, said three
main groups were behind the violence: leftover cells from the
Baath Party in a triangle bounded by Baghdad, al-Ramadi and
Tikrit; Islamists, including some foreigners; and a criminal element
including some of the 100,000 prisoners Saddam freed from jail before the
war.
The killing and wounding of Iraqi civilians has heightened
distress over the US-led occupation. Two electricity workers
were killed on Thursday when grenades were thrown at a convoy of US troops.
And yesterday US soldiers in western Baghdad who
thought they were shooting at a guerilla carrying an
assault rifle turned out to have killed a boy on the roof of his home."
So much for an accurate USSA assessment of who the resistance
is coming from. "But Sarge, he looked just like a Viet Cong" B^p
"The soldiers determined the situation was hostile and engaged
the individual," US military spokesman Major Sean Gibson said.
Just like their officers, 'assessments' that resistance is Batthist
remnants and criminals, not Iraqi's wanting freedom from foreign
occupation, is self serving and leads to the same policy failures
based on delusional analysis as Vietnam.
"It was not until after the search was under way that they
discovered that it was an 11-year-old boy."
Those 11 year old Bath Party officials can be deadly. B^p
And the Merkins laugh at Baghdad Bob!?
"Soldiers of the occupation force are increasingly on edge as
attacks on their troops spread from the area around the capital
to the previously quiet south of the country."
The Brits even more so, they have been caught up in this sort
of protacted guerilla campaign in Northern Ireland. No one wins
from simple minded military 'solutions' devoit of rational analysis.
"The US civil affairs officer shot in the neck in Baghdad was
critically wounded and underwent surgery on Friday night.
A man with a pistol shot him at close range and fled through
the market crowds, said Ammar Saad, a 44-year-old vendor."
I thought the message that Trillion dollar defence systems can't buy
you security was learn't on Sept 11. That military adventures can't
create peace, and you don't win hearts and minds by killing people
was already known in Vietnam, why prove it again?
"Meanwhile, the US military searched by ground and air yesterday
for two missing servicemen and their vehicle, as US interrogators
questioned at least six men arrested over the disappearance."
They have been found dead. It's sad that so many poor people
in the military because they have no other options are drawn into
these wars of economic and political power plays.
Soon they will blame the resistance for the violence and death already
inflicted during their bloody invasion, and use it an excuse for
repression
which already rivals the lack of freedom and the murder of innocent
civilians for which Saddam was hated.
"American officials say the daily grind of ambushes is beginning to
affect their efforts at reconstruction."
What efforts? ..they are universally acknowledged to have been
completely unprepared for reconstruction. One failed Colonial
Governor has already been replaced by the Imperium, this one fares
no better. The deepening anarchy destruction and death is on their heads.
""There is nothing that they're doing that will stop us," Major Slaten said.
"But it does slow us down a little because we have to focus more effort on
security."
Six British soldiers and at least five Iraqi civilians were killed this week
in
clashes near the southern town of Majjar al-Kabir. A British plane
dropped leaflets on the town saying coalition forces regretted the loss
of life among Iraqi civilians but adding that coalition forces were not
behind the incident."
In Arabic, "Sorry for the invasion, death and destruction, Saddam is
gone, somewhere, and a new TexIraqi regime is imposed. Oil
plunder, shooting of civilians, violent supression of demonstrations,
undemocratic manipulation of the political process and imposition
of a puppet government will continue.. once again, Sorry, and if you
can't show sufficient gratitude, fuck off ragheads before I shoot you"
"How we helped liberate Iraqi fundamentalism
June 30 2003
By Nicholas Kristof
I'm getting the impression that America fought Saddam,
and the Islamic fundamentalists won.
For a glimpse of the Islamic state that Iraq may be evolving into,
consider the street execution of an infidel named Sabah Ghazali.
Under Saddam Hussein, Christians such as Ghazali, 41,
were allowed to sell alcohol and were protected from
Muslim extremists. But lately, extremists have been
threatening to kill anyone selling alcohol.
One day last month, two men walked over to Ghazali
as he was unlocking his shop and shot him in the head -
the second liquor store owner they had killed that morning.
An iron curtain of fundamentalism risks falling over Iraq,
with particularly grievous implications for girls and women.
George Bush hopes Iraq will turn into a shining model of
democracy, and that could still happen.
For now the Shiite fundamentalists are gaining ground.
Already, almost every liquor shop in southern Iraq appears
to have been forcibly closed. Here in Basra, Islamists have
asked Basra University (unsuccessfully) to separate male
and female students, and shopkeepers have put up signs
like: "Sister, cover your hair." Many more women are
giving in to the pressure and wearing the hijab head covering.
"Every woman is afraid," said Sarah Alak, a 22-year-old
computer engineering student at Basra University. Alak
never used to wear a hijab, but after Saddam fell her
father asked her to wear one on the university campus,
"just to avoid trouble".
Extremists also threatened Basra's cinemas for
showing pornography (such as female knees).
So the city's movie theatres closed for two weeks
and reopened only after taking down outside posters
and putting up banners, such as this one outside the
Watani Cinema: "We do not deal with immoral movies."
"We're now searching all customers as they enter the
movie theatre," said Abdel Baqi Youssef, a guard at the
Atlas Cinema. "Everybody is worried about an attack."
Paradoxically, a more democratic Iraq may also be a
more repressive one; it may well be that most Iraqis
favour more curbs on professional women and on religious minorities.
As Fareed Zakaria notes in his smart new book,
The Future of Freedom, unless majority rule is accompanied
by legal protections, tolerance and respect for minorities,
the result can be populist repression.
Women did relatively well under Saddam (when they
weren't being tortured or executed, penalties that the
regime applied on an equal opportunity basis).
In the science faculty at Basra University, 80 per cent
of the students are women. Iraq won't follow the theocratic
model of Iran, but it could end up as Iran Lite: an Islamic
state, but ruled by politicians rather than ayatollahs.
I get the sense that's the system many Iraqis seek.
"Democracy means choosing what people want,
not what the West wants," notes Abdul Karim al-Enzi,
a leader of the Dawa Party, a Shiite fundamentalist party.
Enzi is the kind of figure who resonates in mudbrick
Iraqi villages in a way that secular US-backed exiles
like Ahmed Chalabi don't. While Chalabi was dining in
London, Enzi was risking his life on secret spy missions
for the Dawa Party within Iraq, entering from his base in Iran.
Four of his brothers and one sister were executed
for anti-government activities, and Enzi was himself
sentenced to death in absentia in 1979. I found Enzi
brave, admirable and medieval.
What should the US and its allies do about this?
I'm afraid there's not much we can do to discourage
fundamentalism in Iraq, although staying the course
and building a legal system may help. For now,
the US seems to be making matters worse by raiding
offices of Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim, who
ran an anti-Saddam organisation from exile in Iran
and who in the past advocated an Islamic government.
Cold-shouldering Hakim is counterproductive.
It bolsters his legitimacy as a nationalist and further
radicalises his followers.
We may just have to get used to the idea that we
have been midwives to growing Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq."
- Pulitzer Prize-winner Nicholas Kristof is a columnist with The New York
Times.
On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
wrote:
> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy increased
> when we took these things from them.
>
Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the other
Marxist liar Shearman.
At least you have finally dropped the charade that you never supported
the mass murderer, since you cry so convincingly when his supporters
get hunted down as murdering criminals anywhere would be.
Thanks for proving I was right all along about your true sentiments.
"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
news:d155gvcnugjb6tpr32de50rh1fk64s6a7a@no-spam
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> wrote:
> >
> > "Boy and soldiers die in more Iraq violence"
> > - 29/6/2003
> >
> > Looks like the news in this most unequal struggle from foreign
> > domination and against oil plunder continues as it began. Saddam is
> > defeated, but the TexIraqi's are not being freed,
"Saddam is defeated, but TexIraqi's are not being freed."
Ralph has already told us he doesn't believe in democracy
for Texiraq, because people he thinks are the wrong people would
win the election! B^p
So Ralphs concept of 'democracy' is whichever tyrant the USSA wants.
Once they supported Saddams tyranny, now they support their own.
> > and they are starting
> > to shoot back at the invaders who have merely replaced Saddam
> > in ruling over them;
Ralph wants to continue to lie to us, about phonie pretexts, non-existant
WMD's, and bullshit that the war was to 'liberate' TexIraqis when they
have no more freedom or security, and less fresh water, jobs and
infrastructure! 8^o
Someone tell ralph that Saddam is gone, the Iraqi's never fought for him,
and aren't about to start now! But, as they tell every news crew, they
want the other enemy, the USSA invaders out, and that is their new fight.
Situations change, the USSA once funded Osama as an anti Soviet
freedom fighter, now hunts him as a terrorist. They once supported and
armed Saddam, then on the pretext of removing him siezed Iraq and it's
oil. Those that refused to fight for Saddam are now making it clear they
WILL fight for their freedom. Ralph, like the USSA, can repeat the
mistake of Vietnam and label Iraqi freedom fighters and nationalists
as 'Saddamites' just like they once labeled Vietnamese nationalists
as "Communists'... but the rhetoric is more empty, self-deluding lies.
Here's the truth which Ralph wants to lie about;
"WASHINGTON ALARMED AT GROWTH OF IRAQI RESISTANCE"
- The Age 28/6/2003
The Iraqi's didn't fight the USSA when it meant defending Saddam! They
folded like cards! They are fighting NOW for FREEDOM from the alien
invader who has killed them in their thousands, denyies democratic freedoms,
pillages their natural resources, and shoots them on the streets if they
dare to protest against their Imperial overlords.
And ralph is suprised when they don't bend over and say 'fuck us harder' ?
B^p
Don't judge everyone by yourself, Bush's butt-boy! B^D
> >
> > "An American soldier has been killed in an ambush on a convoy
> > and another shot in the neck as he browsed a Baghdad market, "
> >
> > These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
> > self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy
increased
> > when we took these things from them.
> Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
> "freedom fighters"?
I haven't even mentioned Saddams defunct 'forces' B^p They never were
a threat to anyone except defenceless Iraqi civilians! They are old news
and not relevant to the situation on the ground. Do try and catch up
with the current situation, Ralph, since Saddam was defeated and
taken out of the equation.
An 11 year old boy, like all those who are shot dead by the stormtroopers
for daring to demand their freedom, is a freedom fighter. You can't
excuse his murder by lying to try and connect him to the old regime!
Just like protestors were gunned down by Saddam, they are now gunned down
by the new regime. No suprises, as this regime funded the old one in the
past! B^p
No one here supports Saddam, Saddam is history, although you said he was the
target, and he escaped, while 30,000 other people were slaughtered. Why?
They
didn't get freedom or liberation, they got plundered and fucked over.
Saddam was no more 'democratic' than the current TexIraqi regime you
support
as it continues in Saddams practice of killing Iraqi citizens.
Nothing said here relates to, let alone supports the previous tyrant,
only you are supporting the current one, which ordinary Iraqi's hate as
almost as much as they did Sadddam! To do so you have to lie
as you have done, parrotting Bush's litany of lies, all through this phony
war.
What you are trying to argue is that the USSA is beyond criticism for its
murder
and colonial opression, because the victims were previously opressed! B^p
What a moral maggot you are.
> You must be on the same drugs as that the other
> Marxist liar Shearman.
If you mean opposing BOTH Saddams murderous reign, AND the USSA's
murderous reign, then most Australians opposed the colonial war of
agression in which 30,000 people were killed. Only you happily accept
they killing of children and make excuses (pathetic ones) for it.
> At least you have finally dropped the charade that you never supported
> the mass murderer,
I never did and still don't support mass murder, but here we see you do,
trying to excuse todays crimes because the victims were already
oppressed! B^p
I have been consistent in condemning ANY murderous military
dictatorship killing innocent Iraqi civilians, past or present!
What everyone can see you doing is supporting the current
murder of children by the most pathetic dissembling any immorral
maggot could attempt; ''It's ok, Saddam did it too" B^p
You have no interest in the deaths of Iraqi men, women and children,
only in making dishonest propoganda arguments to justify the ONGOING
slaughter, pillage and tyranny.
> since you cry so convincingly when his supporters
> get hunted down as murdering criminals anywhere would be.
The 11 year old boy was not a Saddam supporter. He was gunned down.
You libel him to excuse his murder.
You can't just murder people, and then try and excuse it by saying, "Oh
they must have been Saddam supporters"! B^p They are protesting
being SLAUGHTERED! THIRTY THOUSAND DEAD! Murdered
by invaders who lied to their own people to sieze the oil fields, who
shoot demonstrators, including 11 year old boys, who deny elections
because people other than their puppets would win. They are just
another REGIME like the last one they supported.
The demonstrators at Falugia were shot for protesting the regime.
It is no suprise the people there have armed themselves against the
murderers. Somone has to restore order.
> Thanks for proving I was right all along about your true sentiments
You just keep ignoring the facts, the opinions I base on them,
and lying about both. It's all you had to get into the war, and it's all
you've got
now.
> >
> > " while US forces accidentally killed an 11-year-old boy in the
> > latest cycle of guerilla attacks and ever-tougher US crackdowns in
> > occupied Iraq."
> >
> > They built up armaments and pretexts for months before coming
> > half way round the globe to bomb and destroy Iraqi infrastructure,
> > kill over 30,000 Iraqi citizens, plunder their national resources,
> > unleash
> > anarchy, and sewerage, upon the streets, shoot demonstrators, impose
> > a puppet regime and then, when they kill another child, they call it
> > an 'accident' B^p
> >
> > Murdering people for oil is one thing, refusing to take
responsibility
> > for the disasterous consequences of your actions is even more
> > reprehensible..
Ralph seems to think that if 30,000 Australians were killed by
an invader telling us they would free us from Howard, but instead they
destroyed our livlihood, our water electricity and sewerage, and shot
children
and protestors in the street, that we would accept them selling off
our national assetts just because they claimed 'Howard did it and
you didn't complain' B^p
Saddams bastadry does not excuse the Empires bastadry.
The answer is not, as you seek to do, to prefer a lesser tyranny,
but to OPPOSE ALL TYRANNY and OPPRESSION!
This is todays tyranny, catch up, wake up, and get a clue;
> >
> > "Ambushes have killed at least three US soldiers in the past two days,
> > with a fourth dying in a non-combat accident yesterday. Two other US
> > soldiers remain missing, three days after their apparent abduction north
of
> > Baghdad."
> >
> > The warm response to occupation by the new regime of TexIraq is now
> > producing greater casualties than before Bush's last lie that the
> > 'fighting was
> > over', and the bodybag count from opposition to occupation is almost
> > as great as that from friendly fire.
> >
> > "Late yesterday, attackers fired on a US convoy in the Thawra
neighbourhood
> > of Baghdad, killing an American soldier and wounding four others,
military
> > spokesman
> > Sergeant Patrick Compton said. An Iraqi interpreter was also wounded."
> >
> > The locals continue to make the new TexIraq regime welcome, and show
> > their gratitude for foreign occupation, oil pillage and ongoing
control
> > by the culturally sensitive stormtroopers who bring sniffer dogs
into
> > womens
> > quarters.
> >
> > "Saboteurs have also been attacking the capital's power grid and oil
> > pipelines,
> > foiling coalition efforts to restore services as temperatures climb as
high
> > as 47 degrees."
> >
> > So, not only has trillions been squandered, Iraq littered with
thousands
> > of
> > tons of depleted uranium (the USSA brought it's own WMD's after all)
> > and 30,000 people been slaughtered to fly the Texaco flag above
TexIraqi
> > oilfields, but it has created a whole new group of people who were
not
> > a threat, not shooting Merkins, but now are!
> >
> > Way to go George! The only president dumber than Ronald Raygun!
> >
> >
> > "These are guys who want us to fail. They'd rather see their country
burn
> > than have it succeed," said Major Scott Slaten of the US Army.
> >
> > Did someone say 'Vietnam'? Anyone in the White House heard of the
> > terms ' Kamikaze', desperate, fanatic, suicide bomber, orphan?
> >
> > Have they forgotten their own slogan already; "Better Dead than
Red',
> > or are they really so stupid as to think other peoples don't want
> > freedom
> > and self-determination, only Merkins?
> >
> > A group of US policy experts left Washington yesterday to carry out a
> > review of postwar Iraq. The group, led by John Hamre, a former deputy
> > defence secretary in the Clinton administration, will report to US
Defence
> > Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chief US administrator in Iraq, Paul
> > Bremer.
> >
> > "This team was not dispatched to go rescue Bremer, because Bremer
> > does not need rescuing," said Lawrence Di Rita, acting Assistant
Secretary
> > of Defence.
> >
> > In Washington, Mr Rumsfeld refused to attribute violence against US
> > soldiers to guerilla warfare, instead blaming scattered, disorganised
> > remnants of the Baath regime."
> >
> > So how come any street interview CNN does shows a disheveled
> > and fed up 'liberated' citizen of Texiraq proclaiming "They must go
> > home!"
> > only to have another add "They must go NOW!" ??
> >
> > Thanks for chasing Saddam .. out? back to your place? somewhere?
> > but don't stick around to become more like him every day.
> >
> > But why would the USSA listen to the TexIraqis, anymore than
> > they did to the Vietnamese, they are on a crusade for cheap fuel
> > and they have the guns, and 'speak for everyone', especially the
> > colonials without guns;
> >
> > "It's been accurately portrayed that the major combat has been
> > concluded and that there are a lot of Baathists and Fedayeen
> > Saddam still in the country that are associated closely with
> > Saddam Hussein," he said. "The coalition is taking every
> > step possible to root them out."
> >
> > US Lieutenant-General John Abizaid, soon to replace General
> > Tommy Franks as head of US Central Command, said three
> > main groups were behind the violence: leftover cells from the
> > Baath Party in a triangle bounded by Baghdad, al-Ramadi and
> > Tikrit; Islamists, including some foreigners; and a criminal element
> > including some of the 100,000 prisoners Saddam freed from jail before
the
> > war.
> >
> > The killing and wounding of Iraqi civilians has heightened
> > distress over the US-led occupation. Two electricity workers
> > were killed on Thursday when grenades were thrown at a convoy of US
troops.
> >
> > And yesterday US soldiers in western Baghdad who
> > thought they were shooting at a guerilla carrying an
> > assault rifle turned out to have killed a boy on the roof of his home."
> >
> > So much for an accurate USSA assessment of who the resistance
> > is coming from. "But Sarge, he looked just like a Viet Cong" B^p
> >
> > "The soldiers determined the situation was hostile and engaged
> > the individual," US military spokesman Major Sean Gibson said.
> >
> > Just like their officers, 'assessments' that resistance is Batthist
> > remnants and criminals, not Iraqi's wanting freedom from foreign
> > occupation, is self serving and leads to the same policy failures
> > based on delusional analysis as Vietnam.
> >
> > "It was not until after the search was under way that they
> > discovered that it was an 11-year-old boy."
> >
> > Those 11 year old Bath Party officials can be deadly. B^p
> >
> > And the Merkins laugh at Baghdad Bob!?
> >
> > "Soldiers of the occupation force are increasingly on edge as
> > attacks on their troops spread from the area around the capital
> > to the previously quiet south of the country."
> >
> > The Brits even more so, they have been caught up in this sort
> > of protacted guerilla campaign in Northern Ireland. No one wins
> > from simple minded military 'solutions' devoit of rational analysis.
> >
> > "The US civil affairs officer shot in the neck in Baghdad was
> > critically wounded and underwent surgery on Friday night.
> > A man with a pistol shot him at close range and fled through
> > the market crowds, said Ammar Saad, a 44-year-old vendor."
> >
> >
> > I thought the message that Trillion dollar defence systems can't buy
> > you security was learn't on Sept 11. That military adventures can't
> > create peace, and you don't win hearts and minds by killing people
> > was already known in Vietnam, why prove it again?
> >
> >
> > "Meanwhile, the US military searched by ground and air yesterday
> > for two missing servicemen and their vehicle, as US interrogators
> > questioned at least six men arrested over the disappearance."
> >
> > They have been found dead. It's sad that so many poor people
> > in the military because they have no other options are drawn into
> > these wars of economic and political power plays.
> >
> > Soon they will blame the resistance for the violence and death
already
> > inflicted during their bloody invasion, and use it an excuse for
> > repression
> > which already rivals the lack of freedom and the murder of innocent
> > civilians for which Saddam was hated.
> >
> > "American officials say the daily grind of ambushes is beginning to
> > affect their efforts at reconstruction."
> >
> > What efforts? ..they are universally acknowledged to have been
> > completely unprepared for reconstruction. One failed Colonial
> > Governor has already been replaced by the Imperium, this one fares
> > no better. The deepening anarchy destruction and death is on their
heads.
> >
> > ""There is nothing that they're doing that will stop us," Major Slaten
said.
> > "But it does slow us down a little because we have to focus more effort
on
> > security."
> >
> > Six British soldiers and at least five Iraqi civilians were killed this
week
> > in
> > clashes near the southern town of Majjar al-Kabir. A British plane
> > dropped leaflets on the town saying coalition forces regretted the loss
> > of life among Iraqi civilians but adding that coalition forces were not
> > behind the incident."
> >
> > In Arabic, "Sorry for the invasion, death and destruction, Saddam is
> > gone, somewhere, and a new TexIraqi regime is imposed. Oil
> > plunder, shooting of civilians, violent supression of demonstrations,
> > undemocratic manipulation of the political process and imposition
> > of a puppet government will continue.. once again, Sorry, and if you
> > can't show sufficient gratitude, fuck off ragheads before I shoot
you"
> >
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:13:46 +1000, ralph wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
>wrote:
>
>> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
>> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy increased
>> when we took these things from them.
>>
>
>Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
>"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the other
>Marxist liar Shearman.
Why don't you provide evidence that I said Saddam was a
democratic leader...
Where have I said that Saddam's supporters are freedom fighters?
You still don't understand that hate for Saddam does NOT mean
love for the USA.
In fact, most Iraqis probably hate both.
>At least you have finally dropped the charade that you never supported
>the mass murderer, since you cry so convincingly when his supporters
>get hunted down as murdering criminals anywhere would be.
So it is now a crime to support a political party eh? This is an
example of the NEW dictatorship in Iraq.
>Thanks for proving I was right all along about your true sentiments.
You don't have any fucking clue at all.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."
ZekeGregory@no-spam (Gregory Shearman) wrote in message news:<9D0Na.8427$eE.106758@no-spam>...
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:13:46 +1000, ralph wrote:
> >On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
> >> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy increased
> >> when we took these things from them.
> >>
> >
> >Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
> >"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the other
> >Marxist liar Shearman.
>
> Why don't you provide evidence that I said Saddam was a
> democratic leader...
Ralph cannot defend what is occurring, and it shows him
to have been either a dupe, or an agent, of the invaders,
so he has to invent (lie about) your position in order
to have something to say.
>
> Where have I said that Saddam's supporters are freedom fighters?
>
As before, he is merely parrotting the Bush line.
Faced with daily proof that Iraqi's do not want to be
ruled over by an occupying colonial force, wish to
elect their own leaders, not suffer the USSA jackboot
replacing Saddams jackboot, want Iraqi's to control
Iraq's oil wealth and do not regard being shot for
holding a demonstration as being 'liberated', Bush,
and his puppets like Howard (ralph is just another lap-puppy)
have to try and paint ANYONE who dares to criticise
the Imperial fuck up as being 'pro-Saddam' B^D
I think it's quite humerous, it reminds me of
the NewSpeak at the heigh of the Vietnam debacle.
> You still don't understand that hate for Saddam does NOT mean
> love for the USA.
>
Oh, he understands alright, it's just that pretending
any criticism of Merkins shooting people is expressing
a preference for Saddam shooting people is the only,
if incredibly pathetic, rhetorical nag he can mount. B^D
It's pure, mindless ideological slogan chanting: "If'n you
ain't with us, 2000%, you must be agin us" B^p
The idea of these morons commanding an arsenal of WMD's
is scary.
> In fact, most Iraqis probably hate both.
>
As is obvious from any of the USSA's own vox pop
cable interviews in any TexIraqi city.
People do not like to be colonial pawns of
Imperial powers who rule over them them with
totalitarian control, deny democracy because 'the
wrong people would get elected (B^p), pillage the
resources in corrupt deals with Imperial crooks,
and murder civilians, including children,
who dare to protest.
> >At least you have finally dropped the charade that you never supported
> >the mass murderer, since you cry so convincingly when his supporters
> >get hunted down as murdering criminals anywhere would be.
>
> So it is now a crime to support a political party eh? This is an
> example of the NEW dictatorship in Iraq.
How else can he justify the Invading powers shooting the people
unless he lies to label 11 year old boys and nationalists
demanding freedom and self determination from the colonial
opressors, as 'pro-Saddam' when they are just anti-USSA colonial
Empire!
>
> >Thanks for proving I was right all along about your true sentiments.
>
> You don't have any fucking clue at all.
He's got worse.
Having gone along unthinkingly with the whole WMD lie,
he now has to face the reality of the USSA occupation,
and the lie is unraveling before their eyes.
___________
"Boy and soldiers die in more Iraq violence"
- 29/6/2003
Looks like the news in this most unequal struggle from foreign
domination and against oil plunder continues as it began. Saddam is
defeated, but the TexIraqi's are not being freed, and they are starting
to shoot back at the invaders who have merely replaced Saddam
in ruling over them;
"An American soldier has been killed in an ambush on a convoy
and another shot in the neck as he browsed a Baghdad market, "
These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy increased
when we took these things from them.
" while US forces accidentally killed an 11-year-old boy in the
latest cycle of guerilla attacks and ever-tougher US crackdowns in
occupied Iraq."
They built up armaments and pretexts for months before coming
half way round the globe to bomb and destroy Iraqi infrastructure,
kill over 30,000 Iraqi citizens, plunder their national resources,
unleash anarchy, and sewerage, upon the streets, shoot
demonstrators, impose a puppet regime and then,
when they kill another child, they call it an 'accident' B^p
Murdering people for oil is one thing, refusing to take responsibility
for the disasterous consequences of your actions is even more
reprehensible..
"Ambushes have killed at least three US soldiers in the past two days,
with a fourth dying in a non-combat accident yesterday. Two other US
soldiers remain missing, three days after their apparent abduction north of
Baghdad."
The warm response to occupation by the new regime of TexIraq is now
producing greater casualties than before Bush's last lie that the
'fighting was over', and the bodybag count from opposition
to occupation is almost as great as that from friendly fire.
"Late yesterday, attackers fired on a US convoy in the Thawra neighbourhood
of Baghdad, killing an American soldier and wounding four others, military
spokesman Sergeant Patrick Compton said. An Iraqi interpreter was also wounded."
The locals continue to make the new TexIraq regime welcome, and show
their gratitude for foreign occupation, oil pillage and ongoing control
by the culturally sensitive stormtroopers who bring sniffer dogs into
womens quarters.
"Saboteurs have also been attacking the capital's power grid and oil
pipelines,
foiling coalition efforts to restore services as temperatures climb as high
as 47 degrees."
So, not only has trillions been squandered, Iraq littered
with thousands of tons of depleted uranium
(the USSA brought it's own WMD's after all)
and 30,000 people been slaughtered to fly the Texaco flag above TexIraqi
oilfields, but it has created a whole new group of people who were not
a threat, not shooting Merkins, but now are!
Way to go George! The only president dumber than Ronald Raygun!
"These are guys who want us to fail. They'd rather see their country burn
than have it succeed," said Major Scott Slaten of the US Army.
Did someone say 'Vietnam'? Anyone in the White House heard of the
terms ' Kamikaze', desperate, fanatic, suicide bomber, orphan?
Have they forgotten their own slogan already; "Better Dead than Red',
or are they really so stupid as to think other peoples don't want
freedom and self-determination, only Merkins?
A group of US policy experts left Washington yesterday to carry out a
review of postwar Iraq. The group, led by John Hamre, a former deputy
defence secretary in the Clinton administration, will report to US Defence
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chief US administrator in Iraq, Paul
Bremer.
"This team was not dispatched to go rescue Bremer, because Bremer
does not need rescuing," said Lawrence Di Rita, acting Assistant Secretary
of Defence.
In Washington, Mr Rumsfeld refused to attribute violence against US
soldiers to guerilla warfare, instead blaming scattered, disorganised
remnants of the Baath regime."
So how come any street interview CNN does shows a disheveled
and fed up 'liberated' citizen of Texiraq proclaiming
"They must go home!"
only to have another add "They must go NOW!" ??
Thanks for chasing Saddam .. out? back to your place? somewhere?
but don't stick around to become more like him every day.
But why would the USSA listen to the TexIraqis, anymore than
they did to the Vietnamese, they are on a crusade for cheap fuel
and they have the guns, and 'speak for everyone', especially the
colonials without guns;
"It's been accurately portrayed that the major combat has been
concluded and that there are a lot of Baathists and Fedayeen
Saddam still in the country that are associated closely with
Saddam Hussein," he said. "The coalition is taking every
step possible to root them out."
US Lieutenant-General John Abizaid, soon to replace General
Tommy Franks as head of US Central Command, said three
main groups were behind the violence: leftover cells from the
Baath Party in a triangle bounded by Baghdad, al-Ramadi and
Tikrit; Islamists, including some foreigners; and a criminal element
including some of the 100,000 prisoners Saddam freed from jail before the
war.
The killing and wounding of Iraqi civilians has heightened
distress over the US-led occupation. Two electricity workers
were killed on Thursday when grenades were thrown at a convoy of US troops.
And yesterday US soldiers in western Baghdad who
thought they were shooting at a guerilla carrying an
assault rifle turned out to have killed a boy on the roof of his home."
So much for an accurate USSA assessment of who the resistance
is coming from. "But Sarge, he looked just like a Viet Cong" B^p
"The soldiers determined the situation was hostile and engaged
the individual," US military spokesman Major Sean Gibson said.
Just like their officers, 'assessments' that resistance is Batthist
remnants and criminals, not Iraqi's wanting freedom from foreign
occupation, is self serving and leads to the same policy failures
based on delusional analysis as Vietnam.
"It was not until after the search was under way that they
discovered that it was an 11-year-old boy."
Those 11 year old Bath Party officials can be deadly. B^p
And the Merkins laugh at Baghdad Bob!?
"Soldiers of the occupation force are increasingly on edge as
attacks on their troops spread from the area around the capital
to the previously quiet south of the country."
The Brits even more so, they have been caught up in this sort
of protacted guerilla campaign in Northern Ireland. No one wins
from simple minded military 'solutions' devoit of rational analysis.
"The US civil affairs officer shot in the neck in Baghdad was
critically wounded and underwent surgery on Friday night.
A man with a pistol shot him at close range and fled through
the market crowds, said Ammar Saad, a 44-year-old vendor."
I thought the message that Trillion dollar defence systems can't buy
you security was learn't on Sept 11. That military adventures can't
create peace, and you don't win hearts and minds by killing people
was already known in Vietnam, why prove it again?
"Meanwhile, the US military searched by ground and air yesterday
for two missing servicemen and their vehicle, as US interrogators
questioned at least six men arrested over the disappearance."
They have been found dead. It's sad that so many poor people
in the military because they have no other options are drawn into
these wars of economic and political power plays.
Soon they will blame the resistance for the violence and
death already inflicted during their bloody invasion,
and use it an excuse for repression which already rivals
the lack of freedom and the murder of innocent
civilians for which Saddam was hated.
"American officials say the daily grind of ambushes is beginning to
affect their efforts at reconstruction."
What efforts? ..they are universally acknowledged to have been
completely unprepared for reconstruction. One failed Colonial
Governor has already been replaced by the Imperium, this one fares
no better. The deepening anarchy destruction and death is on their heads.
""There is nothing that they're doing that will stop us," Major Slaten said.
"But it does slow us down a little because we have to focus more effort on
security."
Six British soldiers and at least five Iraqi civilians were killed this week
in clashes near the southern town of Majjar al-Kabir. A British plane
dropped leaflets on the town saying coalition forces regretted the loss
of life among Iraqi civilians but adding that coalition forces were not
behind the incident."
In Arabic, "Sorry for the invasion, death and destruction, Saddam is
gone, somewhere, and a new TexIraqi regime is imposed. Oil
plunder, shooting of civilians, violent supression of demonstrations,
undemocratic manipulation of the political process and imposition
of a puppet government will continue.. once again, Sorry, and if you
can't show sufficient gratitude, fuck off ragheads before I shoot you"
"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
news:d155gvcnugjb6tpr32de50rh1fk64s6a7a@no-spam
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> > These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
> > self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy
increased
> > when we took these things from them.
> >
>
> Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
> "freedom fighters"?
I claimed no such thing, you are simply a liar.
Saddam took the Iraqi peoples democratic rights away and killed dissenters.
I condemn him for doing so.
The USSA invades, and it also takes the Iraqi peoples democratic rights away
and kills dissenters. You, exhibiting rank hypocricy, excuse and applaud
claiming that they can't be allowed democracy because the wrong people would
be elected! B^p
You just mouth the same lies, excuses and pretexts as the USSA and Saddam.
> You must be on the same drugs as that the other Marxist liar Shearman.
>
> At least you have finally dropped the charade that you never supported
> the mass murderer,
My record of opposing Saddam is clear, and your failure to cite me doing
otherwise shows you are simply lying again, the only person supporting
the denial opf democracy to Iraqi's, and the killing of protestors is you,
here, now.
> since you cry so convincingly when his supporters get hunted down
11 year old children gunned down by USSA colonial forces are not
Saddam supporters, they are Iraqi civilian victims of murderous
opressors, just like Saddam who they have replaced in every sense
of 'regime change' as they describe it.
> as murdering criminals anywhere would be.
Who did the innocent 11 year old gunned down by USSA occupying
troops, murder? What were his 'crimes' other than being a disposable
victim of the NEW tyrants who have replaced Saddam in denying
democracy and shooting demonstrators?
Oh, thats right, those who lied about WMD's, who lied to pretend
Iraq was a an imminent threat to us, now define anyone they murder
as a 'terrorist' , women, children, demonstrators demanding democracy.
No wonder the oppressed people of TexIraq have started to do what they
never did while Saddam was in power, they have started to FIGHT BACK
to win their freedom from the new regime, it may be as murderous as the
old one, but it is not as well entrenched, and it's vulnerability to
casualties
and lack of long term stamina is well recognised. It's on a slow spit.
And because of its bastadry, any remnant sympathy it had after Sept 11
is long gone.
> Thanks for proving I was right all along about your true sentiments.
You seem incapable of understanding sentiments which *consistently*
oppose tyranny and murder. You in fact support it, when carried out
by those whose arses your political puppet master willingly licks,
you seek to excuse the killing by the USSA, by falsly claiming that to
oppose their murder requires one to support previous murder. How
ridiculous and what a desperate ploy to try and conceal you own
acquiescence in the current killing and denial of democracy! B^p
Tell us, ralph, why do you support the current murder, anarchy and
opression, and why do you think you can excuse one crime by
claiming others have happened, when the innocent victims of this
slaughter were not responsible for the other one?
Every innocent TexIraqi and soldier currently being killed is on Bush, Blair
and Howard's hands, and the public is starting to wake up to the mammoth
scale of lying by their governments;
"Boy and soldiers die in more Iraq violence"
- 29/6/2003
Looks like the news in this most unequal struggle from foreign
domination and against oil plunder continues as it began. Saddam is
defeated, but the TexIraqi's are not being freed, and they are starting
to shoot back at the invaders who have merely replaced Saddam
in ruling over them;
"An American soldier has been killed in an ambush on a convoy
and another shot in the neck as he browsed a Baghdad market, "
These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy increased
when we took these things from them.
" while US forces accidentally killed an 11-year-old boy in the
latest cycle of guerilla attacks and ever-tougher US crackdowns in
occupied Iraq."
They built up armaments and pretexts for months before coming
half way round the globe to bomb and destroy Iraqi infrastructure,
kill over 30,000 Iraqi citizens, plunder their national resources,
unleash
anarchy, and sewerage, upon the streets, shoot demonstrators, impose
a puppet regime and then, when they kill another child, they call it
an 'accident' B^p
Murdering people for oil is one thing, refusing to take responsibility
for the disastrous consequences of your actions is even more
reprehensible..
"Ambushes have killed at least three US soldiers in the past two days,
with a fourth dying in a non-combat accident yesterday. Two other US
soldiers remain missing, three days after their apparent abduction north of
Baghdad."
The warm response to occupation by the new regime of TexIraq is now
producing greater casualties than before Bush's last lie that the
'fighting was
over', and the bodybag count from opposition to occupation is almost
as great as that from friendly fire.
"Late yesterday, attackers fired on a US convoy in the Thawra neighbourhood
of Baghdad, killing an American soldier and wounding four others, military
spokesman
Sergeant Patrick Compton said. An Iraqi interpreter was also wounded."
The locals continue to make the new TexIraq regime welcome, and show
their gratitude for foreign occupation, oil pillage and ongoing control
by the culturally sensitive stormtroopers who bring sniffer dogs into
women's quarters.
"Saboteurs have also been attacking the capital's power grid and oil
pipelines, foiling coalition efforts to restore services as temperatures
climb as high
as 47 degrees."
So, not only has trillions been squandered, Iraq littered with thousands
of tons of depleted uranium (the USSA brought it's own WMD's after all)
and 30,000 people been slaughtered to fly the Texaco flag above TexIraqi
oilfields, but it has created a whole new group of people who were not
a threat, not shooting Merkins, but now are!
Way to go George! The only president dumber than Ronald Raygun!
"These are guys who want us to fail. They'd rather see their country burn
than have it succeed," said Major Scott Slaten of the US Army.
Did someone say 'Vietnam'? Anyone in the White House heard of the
terms ' Kamikaze', desperate, fanatic, suicide bomber, orphan?
Have they forgotten their own slogan already; "Better Dead than Red',
or are they really so stupid as to think other peoples don't want
freedom
and self-determination, only Merkins?
A group of US policy experts left Washington yesterday to carry out a
review of postwar Iraq. The group, led by John Hamre, a former deputy
defence secretary in the Clinton administration, will report to US Defence
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chief US administrator in Iraq, Paul
Bremer.
"This team was not dispatched to go rescue Bremer, because Bremer
does not need rescuing," said Lawrence Di Rita, acting Assistant Secretary
of Defence.
In Washington, Mr Rumsfeld refused to attribute violence against US
soldiers to guerilla warfare, instead blaming scattered, disorganised
remnants of the Baath regime."
So how come any street interview CNN does shows a dishevelled
and fed up 'liberated' citizen of Texiraq proclaiming "They must go
home!"
only to have another add "They must go NOW!" ??
Thanks for chasing Saddam .. out? back to your place? somewhere?
but don't stick around to become more like him every day.
But why would the USSA listen to the TexIraqis, anymore than
they did to the Vietnamese, they are on a crusade for cheap fuel
and they have the guns, and 'speak for everyone', especially the
colonials without guns;
"It's been accurately portrayed that the major combat has been
concluded and that there are a lot of Baathists and Fedayeen
Saddam still in the country that are associated closely with
Saddam Hussein," he said. "The coalition is taking every
step possible to root them out."
US Lieutenant-General John Abizaid, soon to replace General
Tommy Franks as head of US Central Command, said three
main groups were behind the violence: leftover cells from the
Baath Party in a triangle bounded by Baghdad, al-Ramadi and
Tikrit; Islamists, including some foreigners; and a criminal element
including some of the 100,000 prisoners Saddam freed from jail before the
war.
The killing and wounding of Iraqi civilians has heightened
distress over the US-led occupation. Two electricity workers
were killed on Thursday when grenades were thrown at a convoy of US troops.
And yesterday US soldiers in western Baghdad who
thought they were shooting at a guerilla carrying an
assault rifle turned out to have killed a boy on the roof of his home."
So much for an accurate USSA assessment of who the resistance
is coming from. "But Sarge, he looked just like a Viet Cong" B^p
"The soldiers determined the situation was hostile and engaged
the individual," US military spokesman Major Sean Gibson said.
Just like their officers, 'assessments' that resistance is Batthist
remnants and criminals, not Iraqi's wanting freedom from foreign
occupation, is self serving and leads to the same policy failures
based on delusional analysis as Vietnam.
"It was not until after the search was under way that they
discovered that it was an 11-year-old boy."
Those 11 year old Bath Party officials can be deadly. B^p
And the Merkins laugh at Baghdad Bob!?
"Soldiers of the occupation force are increasingly on edge as
attacks on their troops spread from the area around the capital
to the previously quiet south of the country."
The Brits even more so, they have been caught up in this sort
of protacted guerilla campaign in Northern Ireland. No one wins
from simple minded military 'solutions' devoit of rational analysis.
"The US civil affairs officer shot in the neck in Baghdad was
critically wounded and underwent surgery on Friday night.
A man with a pistol shot him at close range and fled through
the market crowds, said Ammar Saad, a 44-year-old vendor."
I thought the message that Trillion dollar defence systems can't buy
you security was learn't on Sept 11. That military adventures can't
create peace, and you don't win hearts and minds by killing people
was already known in Vietnam, why prove it again?
"Meanwhile, the US military searched by ground and air yesterday
for two missing servicemen and their vehicle, as US interrogators
questioned at least six men arrested over the disappearance."
They have been found dead. It's sad that so many poor people
in the military because they have no other options are drawn into
these wars of economic and political power plays.
Soon they will blame the resistance for the violence and death already
inflicted during their bloody invasion, and use it an excuse for
repression
which already rivals the lack of freedom and the murder of innocent
civilians for which Saddam was hated.
"American officials say the daily grind of ambushes is beginning to
affect their efforts at reconstruction."
What efforts? ..they are universally acknowledged to have been
completely unprepared for reconstruction. One failed Colonial
Governor has already been replaced by the Imperium, this one fares
no better. The deepening anarchy destruction and death is on their heads.
""There is nothing that they're doing that will stop us," Major Slaten said.
"But it does slow us down a little because we have to focus more effort on
security."
Six British soldiers and at least five Iraqi civilians were killed this week
in clashes near the southern town of Majjar al-Kabir. A British plane
dropped leaflets on the town saying coalition forces regretted the loss
of life among Iraqi civilians but adding that coalition forces were not
behind the incident."
In Arabic, "Sorry for the invasion, death and destruction, Saddam is
gone, somewhere, and a new TexIraqi regime is imposed. Oil
plunder, shooting of civilians, violent suppression of demonstrations,
undemocratic manipulation of the political process and imposition
of a puppet government will continue.. once again, Sorry, and if you
can't show sufficient gratitude, fuck off ragheads before I shoot you"
"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
news:i2uegvgg4clq4psnpsh8ceduem4h24snhp@no-spam
> On 2 Jul 2003 23:56:30 GMT, ZekeGregory@no-spam (Gregory
> Shearman) wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:13:46 +1000, ralph wrote:
> >>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
> >>> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy
increased
> >>> when we took these things from them.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
> >>"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the other
> >>Marxist liar Shearman.
> >
> >Why don't you provide evidence that I said Saddam was a
> >democratic leader...
> >
>
> Actually, I was referring to you as a liar - nothing more.
It didn't take ralph long to completely back down on his lies! B^D
As soon as he was challenged to provide evidence, he was forced to
concede that none of those he was accusing had ever supported Saddam.
On the contrary, ralphs lies about the position of others is designed
entirely to defend and excuse the current killing, and denial of democracy
which he excuses and supports. Everyone opposed Saddams supression
of democracy, but ralph excuses the current supression of democracy by
the murderous USSA regime by claiming the wrong people would be elected
in a vote! B^p (This even reflects Saddam's rhetoric! B^p )
....
>
> >Where have I said that Saddam's supporters are freedom fighters?
> >
>
> As I said, I simply called you a liar.
As soon as he is challenged, ralph backs away from his lies. B^p
Pathetic, especially when he engages in this phony propoganda
to defend the slaughter of innocents. The invaders lied that
they were liberating people whose regime killed them, but they
are rthe regime doing the killing. They lied about WMD's, and they
lied about bringing democracy to TexIraq.
Now that the Iraqi's are rebelling against the murder, pillage and
tyranny imposed upon them, the occupying Imperial troops are
becoming more brutal, resulting in the deaths of children on the
streets of their nation, not the USSA overlords.
> >You still don't understand that hate for Saddam does NOT mean
> >love for the USA.
Ralph Deliberately tries to confuse the two, because it is the only
pretext he can invent to try and excuse the murder of Iraqi's and
denial of a democratic choice the USSA will not permit.
>
> When people like fags start insisting Iraqis had democracy and freedom
> taken from them by the Americans,
Not "Had" but "Have" democracy and freedom taken from them by
the current regime.
Just as in the past Saddam killed and opressed them, taking their democratic
rights,
now the new regime, who you support, are killing them and denying them a
vote.
Gregory, myself, the Iraqi's and the world can see that the USSA
lied about it's reasons for invading and siezing total dictatorial power
from the previous bloody tyrant, Saddam. You seek to excuse
the new tyrants.
> I merely point out what an obvious lie that is.
But you have already acknowledged that the USSA refuses to
allow a vote because
"The odds are very high that an election now would install a fairly
fundamentalist Shiite theocracy. And given that the Shiites in general
are the least accepting of the modern world, in the end that wouldn't be
much improvement." - ralph trying to excuse the USSA taking away
the Iraqi's democrtatic rights, and keeping them under the murderous heel
of their military regime.
Newsgroups: aus.politics, ia.talk.misc, misc.news.internet.discuss,
alt.tv.pol-incorrect, rec.boats
> Moreover, he can't spew such nonsense about the Baath
> regime and then claim not to support Saddam.
Apart from criticising them for killing their people and denying them
democracy, just as the new regime is doing, i have said nothing
about the now defunct Baath party. Unlike you I don't refight
old wars when the new enemy is the one doing the current killing! B^p
> I see no problem with fair criticism of America -
BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
As soon as they are criticised for killing 11 year old children, you try
and excuse their slaughter by feebly pointing out that slaughter has
occurred
in the past! THAT DOES NOT MITIGATE THE CURRENT CRIMES!!!
You cannot make absurd and sick moral equivalences claiming that
George can slaughter the innocents because Saddam did it before, and worse!
B^p
> and I've never been a fan of GWB.
BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
You just mouth his excuses and lies that if the USSA colonial stormtroopers
shot an 11 year old boy, it was because of Saddam! B^p
Theat boy was not a member of the Baath party!
The Shiites who want to rule their own country are not Saddamites!
THAT IS JUST A SLOGAN CHANTED AT THOSE THE USSA MURDERS.
> But sorry that doesn't extend to acting as an apologist
> for that sick fuck Saddam -
The victims I spoke of are not Saddam, they never fought for Saddam,
they don't support Saddam, they want the USSA to stop killing them,
excusing it by calling them Saddamites, and they want the current
tyrants to leave as quickly as they wanted the last one to leave.
> like supporting his on-man "election" win,
I have not done so. As above, I challenge you to
provide evidence for your lie, and as above, you will
be unable to, will have to back down utterly, and will
therefore simply tell a new set of lies. B^p
> his invasion of Kuwait,
I have not supported that. As above, I challenge you to
provide evidence for your lie, and as above, you will
be unable to, will have to back down utterly, and will
therefore simply tell a new set of lies. B^p
> or suggestions that Iraqis had freedom and
> democracy taken from them.
But they have, you are lying again. They had it stolen by Saddam
and now they have it stolen by the current Colonial regime.
>
> >In fact, most Iraqis probably hate both.
>
Ralph will never admit the Iraqis have a reason for fighting against the
current regime, just because it kills civilians and denies them democratic
rights, just like Saddam did! B^p
> Does this mean you now agree Saddam's one-man election win was a
> farce?
I have never said otherwise, but YOu have excused the current
denial of democracy, echoing the anti-democratic pretexts of the
regime that they can't hold an election because teh wrong democratic
majority would win! B^p
What a disgraceful hypocrite! B^p
>
> It is beyond doubt America will have to get the Iraqis to put together
> a working administration and withdraw from Iraq -
IT is beyond doubt they HAVE NOT DONE SO, IN FACT THEY
HAVE EXCLUDED REPRESANTIION AND INSTALLED USSA
PUPPETS!
When Iraqi's protest peacefully, they are SHOT.
Then liars like Bush and you claim they must be Saddamites! B^p
What else does any murderous dictator ever say??? B^p
They, you, ALWAYS have EXCUSES for murder. B^p
> but first, they have
> to ensure the Saddam's people are not in a position to seize power by
> force again, and once again threaten the region.
BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA!
And they do this by denying Saddam's Shiite ENEMIES any democratic
rights??? Shooting them when they peacefully protest being opressed and
shot.
And then act suprised when the Iraqi's arm themselves to expel the invaders
who kill them and refuse them democratic representation in the rebuilding
of their nation!
You really are a foolish stooge if you think the five year plan to
consolidate a USSA compliant puppet regime is working! B^D
> >>At least you have finally dropped the charade that you never supported
> >>the mass murderer, since you cry so convincingly when his supporters
> >>get hunted down as murdering criminals anywhere would be.
> >
The 11 year old boy they killed was not a Bath party member.
The shiites shot while demanding freedonm from USSA tyranny
which is as intolerable as Saddam's were not Sadddamites.
It simply suits the USSA to pretend that the REAL resistance to
it's opressive occupation is a resurgent Saddam resistance,
which magically didn't operate when Saddam was still in control,
but is now!? B^D
Do you know what the USSA do with real Baath party officials?
They give them immunity, let them go, and give them roles in the
new regime.
Comical Ali is not merely free, but fits right in with the new regimes lies
and spin.
> >So it is now a crime to support a political party eh? This is an
> >example of the NEW dictatorship in Iraq.
The real evil is that they shoot Shiite protestors (Saddams enemies) dead
and then lie that they were Saddamites! Its ludicrous, but not atypical
of the barefaced propoganda lies they are now desperately reduced to.
B^p
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:16:55 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
wrote:
>
>"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:i2uegvgg4clq4psnpsh8ceduem4h24snhp@no-spam
>> On 2 Jul 2003 23:56:30 GMT, ZekeGregory@no-spam (Gregory
>> Shearman) wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:13:46 +1000, ralph wrote:
>> >>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
>> >>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
>> >>> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy
>increased
>> >>> when we took these things from them.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
>> >>"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the other
>> >>Marxist liar Shearman.
>> >
>> >Why don't you provide evidence that I said Saddam was a
>> >democratic leader...
>> >
>>
>> Actually, I was referring to you as a liar - nothing more.
>
>It didn't take ralph long to completely back down on his lies! B^D
>As soon as he was challenged to provide evidence, he was forced to
>concede that none of those he was accusing had ever supported Saddam.
>
Wrong.
You clearly support Saddam - claiming Iraqis had "freedom" and
"democracy" taken from them by the Americans, and labelling his
supporters as "freedom fighters".
Shearman simply tries to blame the Americans for all the deaths
brought about my Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and his suppression of
Shiite rebellions.
You're both Marxist liars who support any sort of totalitarian regime
as long as they are anti-American.
[flush another of fags reposts]
"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
news:sgmfgv4dr12j9vt9ep2ne7gdj59bhkht97@no-spam
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:16:55 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
> >news:i2uegvgg4clq4psnpsh8ceduem4h24snhp@no-spam
> >> On 2 Jul 2003 23:56:30 GMT, ZekeGregory@no-spam (Gregory
> >> Shearman) wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:13:46 +1000, ralph wrote:
> >> >>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> >> >>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
> >> >>> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy
> >increased
> >> >>> when we took these things from them.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
> >> >>"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the other
> >> >>Marxist liar Shearman.
> >> >
> >> >Why don't you provide evidence that I said Saddam was a
> >> >democratic leader...
> >> >
> >>
> >> Actually, I was referring to you as a liar - nothing more.
> >
> >It didn't take ralph long to completely back down on his lies! B^D
> >As soon as he was challenged to provide evidence, he was forced to
> >concede that none of those he was accusing had ever supported Saddam.
> >
>
> Wrong.
No, it's clear you were asked to provide EVIDENCE that anyone had
made the claims you falsely accused them of, you cant! B^)
You lied, and have been exposed as a liar.
Lets watch you try and do it again, and again fail to provide
any EVIDENCE for your lies. B^)
>
> You clearly support Saddam -
I clearly condemn Saddam, always have.
You offer no EVIDENCE to teh contrary, merely repeat YOUR lies. B^)
> claiming Iraqis had "freedom" and
> "democracy" taken from them by the Americans,
They did, and the lives of many of them as well, just as
Saddam had earlier taken their freedom democracy and lives.
I have been utterly consistent in condeming both murderous regimes,
you defend the current one. Why?
> and labelling his supporters as "freedom fighters".
Nope, I referred to those who have been killed by the current regime
merely for protesting their opreasion and demanding freedom and democracy,
which the USSA regime continues to deny them.
But these lies of yours have already been demolished,
you merely REPEAT them and you cannot providing
any EVIDENCE supporting your lie, because there is none.
Q.E.D.
You look pretty stupid repeating the same discredited lies. B^)
> [flush another of fags reposts]
>
I demolish your post, showing precisely every lie and
why it is false, while you snip and run away! B^D
Who do you think you are fooling?
I note you were unable to defend any of your lies
which were refuted in detail below!
> >
> > On the contrary, ralphs lies about the position of others is designed
> > entirely to defend and excuse the current killing, and denial of
democracy
> > which he excuses and supports. Everyone opposed Saddams suppression
> > of democracy, but ralph excuses the current suppression of democracy by
> > the murderous USSA regime by claiming the wrong people would be elected
> > in a vote! B^p (This even reflects Saddam's rhetoric! B^p )
> >
> > ....
> > >
> > > >Where have I said that Saddam's supporters are freedom fighters?
> > > >
> > >
> > > As I said, I simply called you a liar.
> >
> > As soon as he is challenged, ralph backs away from his lies. B^p
> >
> > Pathetic, especially when he engages in this phony propaganda
> > to defend the slaughter of innocents. The invaders lied that
> > they were liberating people whose regime killed them, but they
> > are the regime doing the killing. They lied about WMD's, and they
> > lied about bringing democracy to TexIraq.
> >
> > Now that the Iraqi's are rebelling against the murder, pillage and
> > tyranny imposed upon them, the occupying Imperial troops are
> > becoming more brutal, resulting in the deaths of children on the
> > streets of their nation, not the USSA overlords.
> >
> > > >You still don't understand that hate for Saddam does NOT mean
> > > >love for the USA.
> >
> > Ralph Deliberately tries to confuse the two, because it is the only
> > pretext he can invent to try and excuse the murder of Iraqi's and
> > denial of a democratic choice the USSA will not permit.
> >
> > >
> > > When people like fags start insisting Iraqis had democracy and freedom
> > > taken from them by the Americans,
> >
> > Not "Had" but "Have" democracy and freedom taken from them by
> > the current regime.
> >
> > Just as in the past Saddam killed and opressed them, taking their
democratic
> > rights,
> > now the new regime, who you support, are killing them and denying them a
> > vote.
> >
> > Gregory, myself, the Iraqi's and the world can see that the USSA
> > lied about it's reasons for invading and seizing total dictatorial power
> > from the previous bloody tyrant, Saddam. You seek to excuse
> > the new tyrants.
> >
> > > I merely point out what an obvious lie that is.
> >
> > But you have already acknowledged that the USSA refuses to
> > allow a vote because;
> >
> > "The odds are very high that an election now would install a fairly
> > fundamentalist Shiite theocracy. And given that the Shiites in general
> > are the least accepting of the modern world, in the end that wouldn't be
> > much improvement." - ralph trying to excuse the USSA taking away
> > the Iraqi's democratic rights, and keeping them under the murderous heel
> > of their military regime.
Clearly ralph can't explain his hypocrisy in defending one murderous regimes
denial of democratic rights to the conquered people of colonial TexIraq.
> >
> > From: ralph (124c41@no-spam
> > Subject: Re: Were trailers full of hot air?
> > Newsgroups: aus.politics, ia.talk.misc, misc.news.internet.discuss,
> > alt.tv.pol-incorrect, rec.boats
> > Date: 2003-06-28 19:53:48 PST
> >
> > > > Moreover, he can't spew such nonsense about the Baath
> > > regime and then claim not to support Saddam.
> >
> > Apart from criticising them for killing their people and denying them
> > democracy, just as the new regime is doing, i have said nothing
> > about the now defunct Baath party. Unlike you I don't refight
> > old wars when the new enemy is the one doing the current killing! B^p
> >
> > > I see no problem with fair criticism of America -
> >
> > BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
> >
> > As soon as they are criticised for killing 11 year old children, you try
> > and excuse their slaughter by feebly pointing out that slaughter has
> > occurred
> > in the past! THAT DOES NOT MITIGATE THE CURRENT CRIMES!!!
> > You cannot make absurd and sick moral equivalences claiming that
> > George can slaughter the innocents because Saddam did it before, and
worse!
> > B^p
> >
> > > and I've never been a fan of GWB.
> >
> > BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
> > You just mouth his excuses and lies that if the USSA colonial
stormtroopers
> > shot an 11 year old boy, it was because of Saddam! B^p
> > Theat boy was not a member of the Baath party!
> > The Shiites who want to rule their own country are not Saddamites!
> >
> > THAT IS JUST A SLOGAN CHANTED AT THOSE THE USSA MURDERS.
> >
> > > But sorry that doesn't extend to acting as an apologist
> > > for that sick fuck Saddam -
> >
> > The victims I spoke of are not Saddam, they never fought for Saddam,
> > they don't support Saddam, they want the USSA to stop killing them,
> > excusing it by calling them Saddamites, and they want the current
> > tyrants to leave as quickly as they wanted the last one to leave.
> >
> > > like supporting his on-man "election" win,
> >
> > I have not done so. As above, I challenge you to
> > provide evidence for your lie, and as above, you will
> > be unable to, will have to back down utterly, and will
> > therefore simply tell a new set of lies. B^p
> >
> > > his invasion of Kuwait,
> >
> > I have not supported that. As above, I challenge you to
> > provide evidence for your lie, and as above, you will
> > be unable to, will have to back down utterly, and will
> > therefore simply tell a new set of lies. B^p
> >
> > > or suggestions that Iraqis had freedom and
> > > democracy taken from them.
> >
> > But they have, you are lying again. They had it stolen by Saddam
> > and now they have it stolen by the current Colonial regime.
> >
> > >
> > > > In fact, most Iraqis probably hate both.
> > >
> >
> > Ralph will never admit the Iraqis have a reason for fighting against the
> > current regime, just because it kills civilians and denies them
democratic
> > rights, just like Saddam did! B^p
> >
> > > Does this mean you now agree Saddam's one-man election win was a
> > > farce?
> >
> > I have never said otherwise, but YOu have excused the current
> > denial of democracy, echoing the anti-democratic pretexts of the
> > regime that they can't hold an election because the wrong democratic
> > majority would win! B^p
> >
> > What a disgraceful hypocrite! B^p
> >
> > >
> > > It is beyond doubt America will have to get the Iraqis to put together
> > > a working administration and withdraw from Iraq -
> >
> > IT is beyond doubt they HAVE NOT DONE SO, IN FACT THEY
> > HAVE EXCLUDED REPRESENTATION AND INSTALLED USSA
> > PUPPETS!
> >
> > When Iraqi's protest peacefully, they are SHOT.
> >
> > Then liars like Bush and you claim they must be Saddamites! B^p
> >
> > What else does any murderous dictator ever say??? B^p
> >
> > They, you, ALWAYS have EXCUSES for murder. B^p
> >
> > > but first, they have
> > > to ensure the Saddam's people are not in a position to seize power by
> > > force again, and once again threaten the region.
> >
> > BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA!
> >
> > And they do this by denying Saddam's Shiite ENEMIES any democratic
> > rights??? Shooting them when they peacefully protest being opressed and
> > shot.
> > And then act surprised when the Iraqi's arm themselves to expel the
invaders
> > who kill them and refuse them democratic representation in the
rebuilding
> > of their nation!
> >
> > You really are a foolish stooge if you think the five year plan to
> > consolidate a USSA compliant puppet regime is working! B^D
> >
> >
> > > >>At least you have finally dropped the charade that you never
supported
> > > >>the mass murderer, since you cry so convincingly when his supporters
> > > >>get hunted down as murdering criminals anywhere would be.
> > > >
> >
> > The 11 year old boy they killed was not a Bath party member.
> > The shiites shot while demanding freedom from USSA tyranny
> > which is as intolerable as Saddam's were not Sadddamites.
> >
> > It simply suits the USSA to pretend that the REAL resistance to
> > it's oppressive occupation is a resurgent Saddam resistance,
> > which magically didn't operate when Saddam was still in control,
> > but is now!? B^D
> >
> > Do you know what the USSA do with real Baath party officials?
> > They give them immunity, let them go, and give them roles in the
> > new regime.
> >
> > Comical Ali is not merely free, but fits right in with the new regimes
lies
> > and spin.
> >
> > > >So it is now a crime to support a political party eh? This is an
> > > >example of the NEW dictatorship in Iraq.
> >
> > The real evil is that they shoot Shiite protestors (Saddams enemies)
dead
> > and then lie that they were Saddamites! Its ludicrous, but not
atypical
> > of the barefaced propaganda lies they are now desperately reduced to.
> >
> > B^p
On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:16:31 +1000, ralph wrote:
>
>Shearman simply tries to blame the Americans for all the deaths
>brought about my Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and his suppression of
>Shiite rebellions.
Source? Show us where the fuck I've said this...
Where's the lie, I'm still waiting...
You call a person a liar, you've got to back up that nasty
insult with some evidence.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
"Ding-a-Ding Dang, My Dang-a-Long Ling Long."
On 6 Jul 2003 22:00:55 GMT, ZekeGregory@no-spam (Gregory
Shearman) wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:16:31 +1000, ralph wrote:
>>
>>Shearman simply tries to blame the Americans for all the deaths
>>brought about my Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and his suppression of
>>Shiite rebellions.
>
>Source? Show us where the fuck I've said this...
>
>Where's the lie, I'm still waiting...
>
>You call a person a liar, you've got to back up that nasty
>insult with some evidence.
Easy ...
Message-ID: <A%XZ9.2943$3x1.60770@no-spam>
>>1/ Estimates for the Iran Iraq war stand at around 1.5 million dead.
>
>Really? And are all these deaths attributed to Hussein?
>
>>2/ The Second Gulf War led to the deaths of 80,000 Iraqis, 3000
>>Kuwaitis, and approximately 1000 between the coalition forces, Saudis
>>and Israelis.
>
>The USA caused most of these deaths.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's a blatant lie ... Saddam invaded Kuwait and refused to
withdraw, triggering the war.
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:48:00 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
wrote:
>
>"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:sgmfgv4dr12j9vt9ep2ne7gdj59bhkht97@no-spam
>> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:16:55 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
>> >news:i2uegvgg4clq4psnpsh8ceduem4h24snhp@no-spam
>> >> On 2 Jul 2003 23:56:30 GMT, ZekeGregory@no-spam (Gregory
>> >> Shearman) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:13:46 +1000, ralph wrote:
>> >> >>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
>> >> >>wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
>> >> >>> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy
>> >increased
>> >> >>> when we took these things from them.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
>> >> >>"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the other
>> >> >>Marxist liar Shearman.
>> >> >
>> >> >Why don't you provide evidence that I said Saddam was a
>> >> >democratic leader...
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Actually, I was referring to you as a liar - nothing more.
>> >
>> >It didn't take ralph long to completely back down on his lies! B^D
>> >As soon as he was challenged to provide evidence, he was forced to
>> >concede that none of those he was accusing had ever supported Saddam.
>> >
>>
>> Wrong.
>
>No, it's clear you were asked to provide EVIDENCE that anyone had
>made the claims you falsely accused them of, you cant! B^)
>
>You lied, and have been exposed as a liar.
>
>Lets watch you try and do it again, and again fail to provide
>any EVIDENCE for your lies. B^)
>
>>
>> You clearly support Saddam -
>
>I clearly condemn Saddam, always have.
>
You said Iraqis had freedom and democracy taken by the Americans, and
you called his supporters now killing Westerners "freedom fighters".
>
>They did, and the lives of many of them as well, just as
>Saddam had earlier taken their freedom democracy and lives.
Nice backtracking.
>I have been utterly consistent in condeming both murderous regimes,
>you defend the current one. Why?
>
Simple ... the Americans will hand Iraq back to Iraqi administration
once the Baath remnants are stamped out. Unlike you, I don't think
it's unreasonable to give them time to do this, given they are ending
a murderous regime that was in power for 2 decades at the point of
gun. A regime you seem quite happy to continue to make apologies for,
until forced to retract obvious bullshit about "freedom" and
"democracy".
Compare with your repeated posts where you call Saddam supporters
"freedom fighters" and his regime one of "freedom" and "democracy" -
which you now clearly must retract when I pointed out how it exposes
your not-so-secret support for Saddam.
>> and labelling his supporters as "freedom fighters".
>
>Nope, I referred to those who have been killed by the current regime
>merely for protesting their opreasion and demanding freedom and democracy,
>which the USSA regime continues to deny them.
>
More backtracking.
>But these lies of yours have already been demolished,
>you merely REPEAT them and you cannot providing
>any EVIDENCE supporting your lie, because there is none.
>
>Q.E.D.
>
>You look pretty stupid repeating the same discredited lies. B^)
LOL - you retract the things you clearly posted earlier, and then
claim I lied about it? :D
>> [flush another of fags reposts]
[and again]
"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
news:ijdlgv0lo4bf0eqeall11kvl79mvb6nnlj@no-spam
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:48:00 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
> >news:sgmfgv4dr12j9vt9ep2ne7gdj59bhkht97@no-spam
> >> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:16:55 +1000, "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@no-spam>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"ralph" <rstead@no-spam> wrote in message
> >> >news:i2uegvgg4clq4psnpsh8ceduem4h24snhp@no-spam
> >> >> On 2 Jul 2003 23:56:30 GMT, ZekeGregory@no-spam (Gregory
> >> >> Shearman) wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:13:46 +1000, ralph wrote:
> >> >> >>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:25:32 +1000, "fasgnadh"
<fasgnadh@no-spam>
> >> >> >>wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
> >> >> >>> self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy
> >> >increased
> >> >> >>> when we took these things from them.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Claiming Saddam was a democratic leader and his supporters are
> >> >> >>"freedom fighters"? You must be on the same drugs as that the
other
> >> >> >>Marxist liar Shearman.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Why don't you provide evidence that I said Saddam was a
> >> >> >democratic leader...
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Actually, I was referring to you as a liar - nothing more.
> >> >
> >> >It didn't take ralph long to completely back down on his lies! B^D
> >> >As soon as he was challenged to provide evidence, he was forced to
> >> >concede that none of those he was accusing had ever supported Saddam.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Wrong.
> >
> >No, it's clear you were asked to provide EVIDENCE that anyone had
> >made the claims you falsely accused them of, you cant! B^)
> >
> >You lied, and have been exposed as a liar.
> >
> >Lets watch you try and do it again, and again fail to provide
> >any EVIDENCE for your lies. B^)
> >
> >>
> >> You clearly support Saddam -
> >
> >I clearly condemn Saddam, always have.
> >
>
> You said Iraqis had freedom and democracy taken by the Americans,
You have already acknowledged that the USSA has refused to
allow elections because they will not allow the Shiia majority
to become government. B^p
How can you agree the USSA is thwarting an election because
they fear the 'wrong people' would win, and still claim they
are not depriving the Iraqi's of democracy!? B^p
You are just getting nutty in your defence of one murderous
regime which has replaced another.
> and
> you called his supporters now killing Westerners "freedom fighters".
Liar, I called those who were killed for merely protesting, "Freedom
Fighters" which they obviously are, shot down by just another
murderous regime,
Below is the whole post you are lying about. You keep
snipping my text because it reveals you are lying when you claim
I have retracted or backtracked. B^D
Why are you so desperately lying to protect those who murder
11 year old boys that you then try and misrepresent as Saddam
sympathisers?
Only blinkered arse licking stooges like you would try and
tell people that this boy is a terrorist, rather than a victim,
or that Iraqi's who fight back against such murder are
to be falsely labeled as Saddamites, to excuse their slaughter;
"Boy and soldiers die in more Iraq violence"
- 29/6/2003
Looks like the news in this most unequal struggle from foreign
domination and against oil plunder continues as it began. Saddam is
defeated, but the TexIraqi's are not being freed, and they are starting
to shoot back at the invaders who have merely replaced Saddam
in ruling over them;
"An American soldier has been killed in an ambush on a convoy
and another shot in the neck as he browsed a Baghdad market, "
These people are jealous of our values, freedom, democracy,
self determination and national sovereignty. Their jealousy increased
when we took these things from them.
" while US forces accidentally killed an 11-year-old boy in the
latest cycle of guerilla attacks and ever-tougher US crackdowns in
occupied Iraq."
They built up armaments and pretexts for months before coming
half way round the globe to bomb and destroy Iraqi infrastructure,
kill over 30,000 Iraqi citizens, plunder their national resources,
unleash
anarchy, and sewerage, upon the streets, shoot demonstrators, impose
a puppet regime and then, when they kill another child, they call it
an 'accident' B^p
Murdering people for oil is one thing, refusing to take responsibility
for the disasterous consequences of your actions is even more
reprehensible..
"Ambushes have killed at least three US soldiers in the past two days,
with a fourth dying in a non-combat accident yesterday. Two other US
soldiers remain missing, three days after their apparent abduction north of
Baghdad."
The warm response to occupation by the new regime of TexIraq is now
producing greater casualties than before Bush's last lie that the
'fighting was
over', and the bodybag count from opposition to occupation is almost
as great as that from friendly fire.
"Late yesterday, attackers fired on a US convoy in the Thawra neighbourhood
of Baghdad, killing an American soldier and wounding four others, military
spokesman
Sergeant Patrick Compton said. An Iraqi interpreter was also wounded."
The locals continue to make the new TexIraq regime welcome, and show
their gratitude for foreign occupation, oil pillage and ongoing control
by the culturally sensitive stormtroopers who bring sniffer dogs into
womens
quarters.
"Saboteurs have also been attacking the capital's power grid and oil
pipelines,
foiling coalition efforts to restore services as temperatures climb as high
as 47 degrees."
So, not only has trillions been squandered, Iraq littered with thousands
of
tons of depleted uranium (the USSA brought it's own WMD's after all)
and 30,000 people been slaughtered to fly the Texaco flag above TexIraqi
oilfields, but it has created a whole new group of people who were not
a threat, not shooting Merkins, but now are!
Way to go George! The only president dumber than Ronald Raygun!
"These are guys who want us to fail. They'd rather see their country burn
than have it succeed," said Major Scott Slaten of the US Army.
Did someone say 'Vietnam'? Anyone in the White House heard of the
terms ' Kamikaze', desperate, fanatic, suicide bomber, orphan?
Have they forgotten their own slogan already; "Better Dead than Red',
or are they really so stupid as to think other peoples don't want
freedom
and self-determination, only Merkins?
A group of US policy experts left Washington yesterday to carry out a
review of postwar Iraq. The group, led by John Hamre, a former deputy
defence secretary in the Clinton administration, will report to US Defence
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the chief US administrator in Iraq, Paul
Bremer.
"This team was not dispatched to go rescue Bremer, because Bremer
does not need rescuing," said Lawrence Di Rita, acting Assistant Secretary
of Defence.
In Washington, Mr Rumsfeld refused to attribute violence against US
soldiers to guerilla warfare, instead blaming scattered, disorganised
remnants of the Baath regime."
So how come any street interview CNN does shows a disheveled
and fed up 'liberated' citizen of Texiraq proclaiming "They must go
home!"
only to have another add "They must go NOW!" ??
Thanks for chasing Saddam .. out? back to your place? somewhere?
but don't stick around to become more like him every day.
But why would the USSA listen to the TexIraqis, anymore than
they did to the Vietnamese, they are on a crusade for cheap fuel
and they have the guns, and 'speak for everyone', especially the
colonials without guns;
"It's been accurately portrayed that the major combat has been
concluded and that there are a lot of Baathists and Fedayeen
Saddam still in the country that are associated closely with
Saddam Hussein," he said. "The coalition is taking every
step possible to root them out."
US Lieutenant-General John Abizaid, soon to replace General
Tommy Franks as head of US Central Command, said three
main groups were behind the violence: leftover cells from the
Baath Party in a triangle bounded by Baghdad, al-Ramadi and
Tikrit; Islamists, including some foreigners; and a criminal element
including some of the 100,000 prisoners Saddam freed from jail before the
war.
The killing and wounding of Iraqi civilians has heightened
distress over the US-led occupation. Two electricity workers
were killed on Thursday when grenades were thrown at a convoy of US troops.
And yesterday US soldiers in western Baghdad who
thought they were shooting at a guerilla carrying an
assault rifle turned out to have killed a boy on the roof of his home."
So much for an accurate USSA assessment of who the resistance
is coming from. "But Sarge, he looked just like a Viet Cong" B^p
"The soldiers determined the situation was hostile and engaged
the individual," US military spokesman Major Sean Gibson said.
Just like their officers, 'assessments' that resistance is Batthist
remnants and criminals, not Iraqi's wanting freedom from foreign
occupation, is self serving and leads to the same policy failures
based on delusional analysis as Vietnam.
"It was not until after the search was under way that they
discovered that it was an 11-year-old boy."
Those 11 year old Bath Party officials can be deadly. B^p
And the Merkins laugh at Baghdad Bob!?
"Soldiers of the occupation force are increasingly on edge as
attacks on their troops spread from the area around the capital
to the previously quiet south of the country."
The Brits even more so, they have been caught up in this sort
of protacted guerilla campaign in Northern Ireland. No one wins
from simple minded military 'solutions' devoit of rational analysis.
"The US civil affairs officer shot in the neck in Baghdad was
critically wounded and underwent surgery on Friday night.
A man with a pistol shot him at close range and fled through
the market crowds, said Ammar Saad, a 44-year-old vendor."
I thought the message that Trillion dollar defence systems can't buy
you security was learn't on Sept 11. That military adventures can't
create peace, and you don't win hearts and minds by killing people
was already known in Vietnam, why prove it again?
"Meanwhile, the US military searched by ground and air yesterday
for two missing servicemen and their vehicle, as US interrogators
questioned at least six men arrested over the disappearance."
They have been found dead. It's sad that so many poor people
in the military because they have no other options are drawn into
these wars of economic and political power plays.
Soon they will blame the resistance for the violence and death already
inflicted during their bloody invasion, and use it an excuse for
repression
which already rivals the lack of freedom and the murder of innocent
civilians for which Saddam was hated.
"American officials say the daily grind of ambushes is beginning to
affect their efforts at reconstruction."
What efforts? ..they are universally acknowledged to have been
completely unprepared for reconstruction. One failed Colonial
Governor has already been replaced by the Imperium, this one fares
no better. The deepening anarchy destruction and death is on their heads.
""There is nothing that they're doing that will stop us," Major Slaten said.
"But it does slow us down a little because we have to focus more effort on
security."
Six British soldiers and at least five Iraqi civilians were killed this week
in
clashes near the southern town of Majjar al-Kabir. A British plane
dropped leaflets on the town saying coalition forces regretted the loss
of life among Iraqi civilians but adding that coalition forces were not
behind the incident."
In Arabic, "Sorry for the invasion, death and destruction, Saddam is
gone, somewhere, and a new TexIraqi regime is imposed. Oil
plunder, shooting of civilians, violent supression of demonstrations,
undemocratic manipulation of the political process and imposition
of a puppet government will continue.. once again, Sorry, and if you
can't show sufficient gratitude, fuck off ragheads before I shoot you"
__________________________
> >
> >They did, and the lives of many of them as well, just as
> >Saddam had earlier taken their freedom democracy and lives.
>
> Nice backtracking.
I have always said that the USSA has repressed Iraqi freedom,
denied it democracy, and killed it's people, just like Saddam.
You on the other hand argue Saddams murder and repression bad,
USSA murder and repression good.
How can you possibly defend the murder of children.
30,000 Iraqi's slaughtered, no WMD's, no threat to us,
no democracy for the victims of the new regime, which
shoots protestors and is increasingly making itself as
despised as Saddam.
>
> >I have been utterly consistent in condeming both murderous regimes,
> >you defend the current one. Why?
> >
>
> Simple ... the Americans will hand Iraq back to Iraqi administration
> once the Baath remnants are stamped out.
They are defining everybody who protests their murder and pillage
as Baath, even if they are unarmed demonstrators or children, and
shooting them. They will never relinquish control of the oil.
You have already admitted they will not allow the Shiite majority
to elect a representative government, (even though the Shiia are
the enemies of the Baath party!!!!!!) so it is clear the USSA is
removing any hope of democracy, which is naturally going to
cause the patriots to kill the invaders at every opportunity.
The USSA, which everyone now knows was not in imminent
danger from Iraq, but needed a pretext to plunder the oil, is
now making a whole new catagory of mortal enemies, and after
they have killed and invaded those people, no one will give a fuck
if they are driven out in bodybags.
It could have been diffferent. A legitimate UN force could
have moved immediately to have an interim Iraqi government and
elections. The USSA is clearly an enemy of any REAL democracy,
and will earn the emnity of Iraqi's by imposing yet another in its
long line of puppet dictators.
> Unlike you, I don't think
> it's unreasonable to give them time to do this,
BWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
It was unreasonable to refuse the UN inspectors time to
locate WMD's and to slaughter 30,000 Iraqis instead!
Tap me on the shoulder when the Iraqi's have killed 30,000
of the imperial colonists and tell me what 'unreasonable' is! B^p
The USSA had no plan for the peace, other than
to secure the oilfields, and the secret police files.
In all other respects, it's regime business as usual,
control at the point of a gun, because the TexIraqi's
DO NOT WANT THEM THERE!
> given they are ending
> a murderous regime
But they aren't, they are continuing a murderous regime.
They even admitted their intentions with their Freudian slip;
"REGIME CHANGE"
Pull your head out of your arse, you have subscribed to EVERY
serial lie and pretext told in this whole fiasco, and you are still
merely parrotting the Bush line.
Learn to think for yourself based on the facts on the ground, not
PR and spin.
> that was in power for 2 decades at the point of gun.
I doubt the USSA regime will last that long, no matter how many
guns they point, or protestors they shoot. As the body bag
count rises they will lose interest.
Wake up, this has not been a victory welcomed as a glorious
liberation. The USSA stormtgroopers are demoralised, despised
and deluded about why they are there.
Tehy want to go, the Iraqi's want them to go, only the oil
cartel insists oin more blood and a military occupation
generating hatred of the USSA.
> A regime you seem quite happy to continue to make apologies for,
I make no apologiesd for the USSA, I condemn them for
murdering Iraqi's and denying them democratic freedoms just
as I condemned Saddam for doing so before them
> until forced to retract obvious bullshit about "freedom" and
> "democracy".
I am glad you retract claims that the invaders have brought
Freedom and democracy, especially as you have already revealed
the USSA's motives for opposing it.. the 'WRONG PEOPLE'
would be elected, not Saddamites, but also not USSA puppets.
The USSA, as you pointed, out will always deny the freedom
and remove democratic rights of Iraqi's if it results in a Shiite
majority that threatens USSA control of the oil.
Are you incredibly naive, or particularly stupid, or complicit?
Shares in Texaco perhaps?
>
> Compare with your repeated posts where you call Saddam supporters
> "freedom fighters"
No, I called those shot by the USSA for protesting, and their
family and countrymen who have started shooting back,
AFTER 30,000 IRAQI'S HAVE BEEN MURDERED,
freedom fighters.
No Iraqi's fought the USSA for Saddam, we all saw that.
They melted away.
So, if they now fight the USSA it is because they are tired
of their life becoming WORSE under the new foreign killers,
LESS security, NO jobs, foreign plunder, USSA puppets..
they probably think 30,000 dead is enough, and they can't
simply allow the USSA to keep shooting children and
protestors, and then calling the dead children 'terrorists'
who deserved to die, as you are trying to do
> and his regime one of "freedom" and "democracy" -
This regime is clearly NOT one of freedom and democracy,
no more than Saddams was.
> which you now clearly must retract
But I never claimed Saddams regime was one of freedom and democracy
you moronic liar! B^D
My posts are all archived. Try reading them rather than
trying feebly yo distort them in order to defend ongoing
murder and opression.
> when I pointed out how it exposes
> your not-so-secret support for Saddam.
I have always opposed the murderous regimes opressing the
Iraqi's, I opposed Saddam, I oppose the USSA.
I will oppose the puppets the USSA installs when it
continues to deny freedome and remove the democratic
rights of Iraqi's.
> >> and labelling his supporters as "freedom fighters".
> >
> >Nope, I referred to those who have been killed by the current regime
> >merely for protesting their opreasion and demanding freedom and
democracy,
> >which the USSA regime continues to deny them.
> >
>
> More backtracking.
Do all teh backtracking you like. I have been firm and consistent
in condemming Saddams murderous regime, and the current one,
and supporting the Freedom fighters.
You betray those struggling for freedom, just like the USSA did
when it encouraged them to rise up under Saddam, then stood
idly by while he slaughtered them. I will not stand by and fail to
protest when the Texiraqi regime kills it's own people, just as
I protested the same under Saddam.
>
> >But these lies of yours have already been demolished,
> >you merely REPEAT them and you cannot providing
> >any EVIDENCE supporting your lie, because there is none.
> >
> >Q.E.D.
> >
> >You look pretty stupid repeating the same discredited lies. B^)
>
> LOL - you retract the things you clearly posted earlier, and then
> claim I lied about it? :D
There is no retraction.. I am saying EXACTLY what i have always said.
I have reposted the original for you to read, try and get
someone to help you understand it.. or simply post
anything by me you claim supports Saddam, rather
than those fighting to be free of those who kill and
opress them.
You can't deny 30,000 dead Iraqi's, and rising every day,
is a reason to dislike the current murderous regime almost
as much as the last one.
>
> >> [flush another of fags reposts]
>
> [and again]
Naturally, it shows you to be lying about any 'backtracking'
or retraction by me! B^)
>
"Gregory Shearman" <ZekeGregory@no-spam> wrote in message
news:wBlOa.8764$eE.121143@no-spam
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:16:31 +1000, ralph wrote:
> >
> >Shearman simply tries to blame the Americans for all the deaths
> >brought about my Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and his suppression of
> >Shiite rebellions.
>
> Source? Show us where the fuck I've said this...
>
> Where's the lie, I'm still waiting...
>
> You call a person a liar, you've got to back up that nasty
> insult with some evidence.
>
The only way ralph can continue to defend the slaughter of
30,000 Iraqi's, when every pretext has been exposed as a lie,
is to inven