AUS POLITICS 36 RE REPLY TO MONKYPOX LONG
From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 23:22:07 -0700


peter_d_wiley@no-spam (Peter Wiley) wrote in message news:<151fcb17.0306231601.3c0d0fe2@no-spam>...

> "RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote in message news:<bd7273$phvij$1@no-spam>...
> > Tom Osborn wrote in message <3ef6b365$1_1@no-spam>...
> > > > "C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:sOsJa.2068$r64.58880@no-spam > > >
> > > "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:246279a.0306212325.4af1d6c9@no-spam > > > > Thank you for posting this article. Sorry I took so long to respond,
> > > > but it does cover a few areas of my current work, so I thought I > > > > might put some effort into my response. The article echoes some of > > > > the points I have tried to make in this newsgroup (although woger thinks
> > > > bugs are boring), and many points I DO make in my life outside the > > > > net.
> > >
> > > Good summary Mark. I concur. And of course, you are referring to the > > > direct threats. There's also attacks on the food chain (grains, meat,
> fish,
> > > water, even the so-called value add on the supply chain of food processing
> > > and retail store stock levels). There have been issues on ALL of those > > > in recent years without a hint that Al Qaeda, Baade Meinhopf the second > > > generation, or the John Birch Society were involved.
> > >
> > > There's bio-vulnerability everywhere you look.
> > >
> > > Cate.
> > > > Markie normally does his homework thoroughly. I too worry about threats to > > the food chain (and water supply).
> > > > Most human disasters have come from biodiversity reduction, stuffing the > > food supply, stuffing water, and catching NEW diseases.
> > ......................
> > Ho yus? Cites, please. And where are all the new diseases from the decades
> > old right royally completely fucked environment in the old > > Poland/E.Germany/Russia eg? )
> > Dunno. Maybe the radiation killed them all off :-)

You may be right! Unfortunately, that amount of radiation exposure is being felt in the human population as well.

Seems that earthworms around the reactor have significantly changed breeding habits. For a long time they have preferred a social scene that fit well into the long established sexual nature of these creatures. Now they seem to be adopting hetrosexual breeding liasons. A significant change after only 20 years of exposure to radiological hazard.

given your background, here's an interesting article:

http://www.swan.ac.uk/cget/ejgt/article6.htm
> > Anyway. Bio-attacks are feasible and worth planning responses to.
My word.

> I > can think of a number of things which could be done that would cause > immense economic damage at a relatively cheap cost, and be difficult > to prevent. Naturally I'm not giving details.

Good. I can think of the same things. Again, no need to feed the market of nutters.

> > I'm less worried about bugs targetted at humans simply because this is > obviously self-defeating; there's no way known that any such release > could be limited to a particular geographic region (I'm considering a > release in a First World country with good air links) and the First > World countries have better infrastructure, medicine etc to respond to > any such outbreak. It'd devastate Third World countries far more than > First World ones, IMHO.

Possibly. The USSR were far ahead of the rest of us in re-combinant technology (as used for weapon research).
Immunisation for a start. The Russians developed and implemented aerosol innoculations ages ago. An innoculation against a weaponised virus provides the same "off-balance" thread as did ABM introduction during the SALT and SALTII considerations (and hence introduced the MIRV in preference to ABM).

Yes, the third world would probably cop it again.

> > I'd be pretty much OK where I am; this is a nice 3rd World place > subsidised by all you 1st World northerners.

Ha! Something to be said for isolation at times ;-)

Mark.

> > Peter Wiley

From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 23:53:12 -0700

"RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote in message news:<bd7273$phvij$1@no-spam>...
> Tom Osborn wrote in message <3ef6b365$1_1@no-spam>...
> > "C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message > news:sOsJa.2068$r64.58880@no-spam > >
> > "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:246279a.0306212325.4af1d6c9@no-spam > > > Thank you for posting this article. Sorry I took so long to respond,
> > > but it does cover a few areas of my current work, so I thought I > > > might put some effort into my response. The article echoes some of > > > the points I have tried to make in this newsgroup (although woger thinks > > > bugs are boring), and many points I DO make in my life outside the > > > net.
> >
> > Good summary Mark. I concur. And of course, you are referring to the > > direct threats. There's also attacks on the food chain (grains, meat,
> fish,
> > water, even the so-called value add on the supply chain of food processing > > and retail store stock levels). There have been issues on ALL of those > > in recent years without a hint that Al Qaeda, Baade Meinhopf the second > > generation, or the John Birch Society were involved.
> >
> > There's bio-vulnerability everywhere you look.
> >
> > Cate.
> > Markie normally does his homework thoroughly.
Thanks Tom, I do try.

> I too worry about threats to > the food chain (and water supply).
> > Most human disasters have come from biodiversity reduction, stuffing the > food supply, stuffing water, and catching NEW diseases.
> ......................
> Ho yus? Cites, please. And where are all the new diseases from the decades > old right royally completely fucked environment in the old > Poland/E.Germany/Russia eg? )

I don't know where you got any idea from my post, or Toms, that this subject is "anti-America" or "pro-Russia", possibly your own paranoia?

But just for you,

---------------
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no1/platanov.htm Outbreak of West Nile Virus Infection, Volgograd Region, Russia, 1999
Alexander E. Platonov,* German A. Shipulin,* Olga Yu. Shipulina,*
Elena N. Tyutyunnik,† Tatyana I. Frolochkina,‡ Robert S. Lanciotti,§
Svetlana Yazyshina,¶ Olga V. Platonova,* Igor L. Obukhov,¶ Alexander N. Zhukov,** Yury Ya. Vengerov,† and Valenin I. Pokrovskii*
*Central Institute of Epidemiology, Moscow, Russia; †Moscow State University for Medicine and Dentistry, Russia; ‡Ministry of Public Health, Moscow, Russia; §Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA; ¶Russian State Institute for Control of Veterinary Products, Moscow, Russia; **Center of Sanitary and Epidemic Control for Volgograd Region, Volgograd, Russia
From July 25 to October 1, 1999, 826 patients were admitted to Volgograd Region, Russia, hospitals with acute aseptic meningoencephalitis, meningitis, or fever consistent with arboviral infection. Of 84 cases of meningoencephalitis, 40 were fatal. Fourteen brain specimens were positive in reverse transcriptase-polymerase chain reaction assays, confirming the presence of West Nile/Kunjin virus.

West Nile (WN) virus is a member of the Japanese encephalitis (JE)
antigenic complex of the genus Flavivirus, family Flaviviridae.
Mosquito-borne WN virus fever is endemic in Africa, the Middle East,
and Southwest Asia. The antigenically and genetically related Kunjin virus is a WN virus counterpart in Australia and Southeast Asia and has recently been taxonomically classified as a subtype of WN virus.
Until recently, WN virus infection in humans was considered a relatively mild, influenzalike disease with full recovery, although occasionally (<15% of cases) acute aseptic meningitis or encephalitis occurred (1). No large outbreak of WN virus fever was reported in Europe until August and September 1996, when more than 500 clinical cases were observed in Romania (Bucharest region), with high rates of neurologic disorders and death (up to 10%) (2). WN virus had never been detected in the Western Hemisphere until August 1999, when an outbreak of human WN encephalitis in New York City (56 confirmed cases, 7 deaths) coincided with unusual deaths in crows and exotic birds (3-5).

The Study In August and September 1999, an outbreak of acute viral infection consistent with arboviral infection occurred in the Volgograd Region,
Russia. Epidemiologic and clinical data were collected and analyzed in the Center of Sanitary and Epidemic Control for the Volgograd Region in collaboration with the Commission of the Russian Ministry of Public Health. From July 25 to October 1, 826 patients were admitted to area hospitals with the clinical diagnosis of acute aseptic meningoencephalitis (code A86, ICD-10; 84 patients), acute aseptic meningitis (code A87.9; 308 patients), or acute viral infection with fever (code B34.9; 347 patients). Serum samples from 318 patients were tested for WN virus antibody by immunoglobulin (Ig)M-capture enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) and indirect IgG ELISA (2,6); 183 (58%) samples demonstrated a level of anti-WN virus IgM indicative of acute infection. This proportion was approximately the same in patients with aseptic meningoencephalitis, aseptic meningitis,
and acute fever. These 183 cases were considered serologically confirmed WN virus cases; all 826 cases were considered clinically compatible WN virus cases. The total number of suspected overt human WN virus cases was estimated to be 480.
[...]
---------------------------

Read the rest if you are interested. I was. The time scale had a remarkable correlation to similar outbreaks around the globe.

---------------------------

http://212.187.155.84/wnv/Subdirectories_for_Search/Glossary&References_Contents/JournalContents/j84.htm

----------------------------

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11266288&dopt=Abstract

Emerging infectious diseases in Russia, 1990-1999.

Netesov SV, Conrad JL.

State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology Vector, Koltsovo,
Novosibirsk Region, Russian Federation.

PMID: 11266288 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] --------------------

http://www.nap.edu/books/NI000301/html/88.html
Controlling Dangerous Pathogens: A Blueprint for U.S.-Russian Cooperation, A Report to the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program of the U.S. Department of Defense--Russian Version (1997)
National Research Council (NRC)

----------------------

http://hsc.unm.edu/pathology/HjelleLab/molecular%20ep1.htm
Emerging Viruses Research Center Hantavirus Reference Laboratory Molecular Epidemiology of HCPS Lab History Rodents infected with hantaviruses excrete the virus in their urine and feces, and secrete the virus in saliva (ref,ref).
Although it is frequently stated that hantaviruses are transmitted from mouse to man through aerosols of contaminated rodent excreta, the evidence supporting these claims is rather weak and indirect. The strongest evidence comes from cases in Russia, Korea and Japan wherein persons who apparently made only brief, casual visits to laboratories containing Seoul or Puumala virus-infected rodents became ill with hemorrhagic fever. However, it is inherently difficult to document this route of infection with great confidence. In recent years,
evidence of person-to-person transmission of Andes hantavirus has emerged in Argentina (ref). Person-to-person transmission is especially troubling because no clear mechanism for this transmission has been identified. It has not been reported in North America, Asia,
or Europe. Fortunately, molecular epidemiology offers a powerful tool to support or refute specific models of hantavirus transmission and might someday be used to identify the specific routes of interpersonal transmission for Andes virus (ref).

HCPS is associated with a number of newly-identified hantavirus species: Sin Nombre, New York, Bayou, and Black Creek Canal viruses in the US, Andes virus and its close relatives in Argentina and Chile,
and Laguna Negra virus in Paraguay. Each of these viruses is associated with a specific rodent of the subfamily Sigmodontinae,
family Muridae. HCPS-associated viruses represent a monophyletic lineage (a group that shares a common ancestor) in the hantavirus phylogenetic (family) tree.

In most cases, a "new" hantavirus is easily recognized by its distinct protein sequences and distinct ecological niche. At the level of nucleotide sequence, it is extremely unlikely to encounter two viruses of the same species that differ in nucleotide sequence by less than a few percent except when they are closely linked to one another geographically. At a given geographic point, such as a case-patient's household, anywhere from about 1-5 distinct SNV lineages may be present. For Sin Nombre viruses collected at two points across a distance of 10 or more kilometers, it is usually easy to distinguish the prevailing viral genotypes.

[...]

---------------------

Would you like more information?

I'd be more than happy to do your research for you, after all, I have little to do myself.......

> .......................
> That is, apart from disasters due to political stupidity (and the kind of > self-deceiving egotistical self-serving memes that crop up in the uncritical > support some politicians whip up in this brown land).
> > ........................
> "We'll all be rooned...", said Hanrahan.
> > a) Have you got any control?

Possibly.

> > b) No? Then don't waste perfectly good worry on it - worry about something > you HAVE got control over.

And you have some pet projects that require help?

> > c) 'Umans are not an endangered species.

Very incorrect. Not arguing that that is a good or bad thing,
it just is.

> > d) Maybe we need an aus.scifi group.

Possibly. What would you post? Although if you are suggesting that genetic research is sci.fi then I suggest you update your reading list by at least half a century. You do have a library at cow college?

> > e) In the meantime all groups except aus.pol snipped.

I put them back. Please do not make assumptions on my behalf, where I wish to post information.

> > Blardy hell - can just see the 3 of you on a bright summer day at a footpath > cafe sucking on a red with the lovely people streaming past... and all > three of you looking as though you have a dog turd shoved up your nose as > you worry desperately about things that *might* happen and which you can't > control.

Are your delusions important to this discussion? If so, how?

> > Personally I blame your parents - they should have read you Winnie the Pooh > instead of that crap by Marcuse.
>
Handbook for British Petrochemical Engineers was one of the first prezzies I remember from Dad. Mum used to buy me Biggles.

But thank you for your interest.

Mark Addinall.


From: "Tom Osborn" (MAPStom@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:23:46 +1000

"Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote:
> peter_d_wiley@no-spam (Peter Wiley) wrote:
> > "RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote:
> > > Tom Osborn wrote:

> > > > Most human disasters have come from biodiversity reduction, =
stuffing the > > > > food supply, stuffing water, and catching NEW diseases.
> > > ......................
> > > Ho yus? Cites, please. And where are all the new diseases from =
the decades > > > old right royally completely fucked environment in the old > > > Poland/E.Germany/Russia eg? )

Someone should tell Wodger that I only read aus.flame, so trimming the =
Newsgroup:
header will deprive him of my insights, naivete and wit. [AKA, =
distraction from the other stuff, although there seems to be somewhat of a convergence =
this year]. Time to have a few Pizza Shapes and a tea (nice when they're on =
tap)...

> > Dunno. Maybe the radiation killed them all off :-)

That's certainly in ther literature...

> You may be right! Unfortunately, that amount of radiation > exposure is being felt in the human population as well.

The emergence of new infectious diseases needs not only some species =
jumping pressure and changes of conditions (either biodiversity or chemical), =
but also opportunity. That's why primate diseases can move around via monkey handling in Africa, and prairie dog diseases (to which they are =
obviously susceptible) from infect people with prairie dog pets.=20

The vector must be present (air, bitey bug, water, body fluids, toilet =
seats,
etc). Colder climates have far fewer vectors most of the time. The =
vector must be situated between an infectious pool and a susceptible =
population.

The Soviet block banned such vectors under Stalin's rule, and they have only jus started to re-appear (spread by door handles at train stations =
I hear).=20

Tomasso.


From: "Tom Osborn" (MAPStom@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:49:58 +1000

"Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote:
> "RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote > > ... Blardy hell - can just see the 3 of you on a bright summer day =
at a footpath > > cafe sucking on a red with the lovely people streaming past... and =
all > > three of you looking as though you have a dog turd shoved up your =
nose as > > you worry desperately about things that *might* happen and which you =
can't > > control.
>=20
> Are your delusions important to this discussion? If so, how?

Wodger gets some very strange interpretations of people. I'm a joyous =
optimist who is very excited about viruses and indeed the whole web of life. Even trains make me feel mildly aroused. A good theorem, or an efficient =
learning algorithm is better than a bottle of Grange. [But you can have both]. =
Wiley is one of those extreme aesthetes who is so imbued with passion about =
things like boats and tools, and ideas, that he almost forgets that there are =
so many fuckwits about (he forgets till he has to work with one). And Mark simply entertains hisself in aus.politics while he cultivates a depth of =
rigor and passion rarely seen in a millenium.=20

True.

> > Personally I blame your parents - they should have read you Winnie =
the Pooh > > instead of that crap by Marcuse.

One wonders whether Wodger was invented for daytime TV, or vice versa.

Winnie the Pooh is fine, but a bit stodgey in an Anglo-naive frollic =
with anthropomorphised animated stuffed animals. Disney saw it as a compulsory acquisition. Maybe Douglas Adams or Kurt Vonnegut is a way out of Wodger's ever decreasing cycles of atopical senility...

But maybe he's just pretending. :-).

> Handbook for British Petrochemical Engineers was one of the > first prezzies I remember from Dad. Mum used to buy me Biggles.

I remember Coles Funny picture book, and one of my great grandfather's=20
science textbook dated 1899. Plus a golden book about "Tawny Scrawny=20
Lion", and "The Saggy Baggy Elephant". In my second year I moved on to Jules Verne and HG Welles, followed by Le Recherche de Temps Perdu,
but I could only get a Finnish translation. After that is was Feynman,
later writings of Kant, and a few comics. But I think Puckoon was my favourite book of all time...

Cheese, Tomasso.


From: "RT" (r.thomas@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:40:36 +1000

Mark Addinall wrote in message <246279a.0306231950.33d45f6b@no-spam>...
>"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message news:<sOsJa.2068
>> And of course, you are referring to the >> direct threats. There's also attacks on the food chain (grains, meat,
fish,
>> water, even the so-called value add on the supply chain of food processing >> and retail store stock levels). There have been issues on ALL of those >> in recent years without a hint that Al Qaeda, Baade Meinhopf the second >> generation, or the John Birch Society were involved.
>>
>> There's bio-vulnerability everywhere you look.

>Could not agree more, and in most cases laziness and a deal >of stupidity are far more dangerous than the possibility of >terrorism (although I do believe that our chances of attracting >a terrorist attack are now increased severalfold).
>
>We are seeing a natural attack on grains in Australia at the moment.
>Cut the bio-diversity of foodstuffs down to one or two specific >species, then a blight is big trouble.

Erm - <coff> - 'cept it seems to have been in the wild for a few years without being noticed... <smirk>

>The last time I did a contract in Sydney with dear Wiley I seem to recall >the few weeks I was in the smoke, the man on telly warned me not >to drink the tap water as it was biologically compromised.
>I survived on beer ;-)

That figgers. "biologically compromised" :-) :-)

>The food chain has gone to hell, even stupid woger from cow college >can't argue that.

If you're an american woofter brought up on a diet of antibiotic-laden kentucky cat and/or grossed out big mac cholesterol burgers (which, judging from your reaction to the Syd water warning I suspect you are) then you are totally correct. *Your* one-dimensional food chain is fucked up and you are going to die. Maybe tomorrow or the next day, so you better start digging a hole.

However, any other reasonable person used to exposure during their life to assorted feral sports and variants, will cruise happily on.

IOW, you admit you can't hack it. Not a problem - tuck your pet dodo under your arm and blow us a kiss goodbye.

Stop whining, admit you are unable to adapt and are therefore both irrelevant and obsolete (ie, anachronistic) - and FOAD.

Loser.


From: "RT" (r.thomas@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:11:06 +1000

Mark Addinall wrote in message <246279a.0306232253.79d1e773@no-spam>...
>"RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote in message news:<bd7273$phvij$1@no-spam>...
>> Ho yus? Cites, please. And where are all the new diseases from the decades >> old right royally completely fucked environment in the old >> Poland/E.Germany/Russia eg? )
>
>I don't know where you got any idea from my post, or Toms, that >this subject is "anti-America" or "pro-Russia", possibly your >own paranoia?

What the fuck are you on about? You're rabbitting on with doom and gloom about the local environment - have you been to any of the FSU countries in the last 20 years? If not, you are yet another typical caffe latte expert.

IOW, you don't have a f'ing clue, but a quick read of the National Geographic gets you the buzz-words to pontificate, speculate and other sorts of bates
>But just for you,
>
>---------------
>http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no1/platanov.htm >Outbreak of West Nile Virus Infection, Volgograd Region, Russia, 1999

IN THE LAST 20 YEARS........

1999???????????? <sigh>


From: peter_d_wiley@no-spam (Peter Wiley)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 17:45:35 -0700

addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall) wrote in message news:<246279a.0306231950.33d45f6b@no-spam>...

> "C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message news:<sOsJa.2068$r64.58880@no-spam>...

> > "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:246279a.0306212325.4af1d6c9@no-spam > > > Thank you for posting this article. Sorry I took so long to respond,
> > > but it does cover a few areas of my current work, so I thought I > > > might put some effort into my response. The article echoes some of > > > the points I have tried to make in this newsgroup (although woger thinks > > > bugs are boring), and many points I DO make in my life outside the > > > net.
> > > > Good summary Mark. I concur. > > Thank you.
> > > And of course, you are referring to the > > direct threats. There's also attacks on the food chain (grains, meat, fish,
> > water, even the so-called value add on the supply chain of food processing > > and retail store stock levels). There have been issues on ALL of those > > in recent years without a hint that Al Qaeda, Baade Meinhopf the second > > generation, or the John Birch Society were involved.
> > > > There's bio-vulnerability everywhere you look.

Yeah, but there always has been, too.

> Could not agree more, and in most cases laziness and a deal > of stupidity are far more dangerous than the possibility of > terrorism (although I do believe that our chances of attracting > a terrorist attack are now increased severalfold).
> > We are seeing a natural attack on grains in Australia at the moment.
> Cut the bio-diversity of foodstuffs down to one or two specific > species, then a blight is big trouble.

True, but that assumes we can't wipe out the bug responsible, or breed resistant cultivars. I'd bet that we can.

> The last time I did a contract in Sydney with dear Wiley I seem to recall > the few weeks I was in the smoke, the man on telly warned me not > to drink the tap water as it was biologically compromised.
> I survived on beer ;-)

It was only a few lousy giardia over the allowable limit and everyone went into panic mode. Hell, I drink tank water and birds shit on the roof. The dilution factor means that (so far) I've come to no harm.

Found a few dead birds in the bottom of a rainwater tank once. That gave me pause for thought; I put a screen over the openings. Still drank the water, seeing as it hadn't done me any harm so far. Didn't bother telling the daughters, tho.

Beer is a good substitute for water but wine is better.
> The food chain has gone to hell, even stupid woger from cow college > can't argue that.

I don't think it has, yet, but we're working on it. Certainly reducing species diversity and increasing monocultures is a recipe for massive disease outbreaks. Unfortunately it's also the way of large scale,
mechanised agriculture which is needed to deliver the food volumes to support the current population levels, with sufficient surplus for sale/export. Bit of a cleft stick there.

The ones I don't trust are the snake-oil salesmen pushing GM crops. I fail to see the need, and wonder if they'll 'manufacture' a need to overcome consumer resistance. One thing we've all learnt is that companies have zero sense of morality and will do literally anything to grow their business.

Peter Wiley

From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:01:07 +1000

"Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote in message news:246279a.0306231950.33d45f6b@no-spam > "C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message news:<sOsJa.2068$r64.58880@no-spam>...
> > (snip)
> > There's bio-vulnerability everywhere you look.
>
> Could not agree more, and in most cases laziness and a deal > of stupidity are far more dangerous than the possibility of > terrorism (although I do believe that our chances of attracting > a terrorist attack are now increased severalfold).

Stupidity, laziness, adherence to defective practices and beliefs of the past. In keeping an open mind, you need to pay attention to the good and the bad possibilities (aka, "threats" and "opportunities").

"R T" seems to have an intellectual cul de sac he lives in where even if things change, you can continue to believe and act as always.

He seems to fantasise that he's a cross between an optimist and a romantic conservative (with one eye on the here and now, for joy,
and the other on the past, for wisdom).

I'll think of a challenge for "R T" to shake him out of his delusional rut. Maybe a top up of testosterone levels might help as well.

Mark just needs his leg to heal. Injuries teach us a lot.

> We are seeing a natural attack on grains in Australia at the moment.
> Cut the bio-diversity of foodstuffs down to one or two specific > species, then a blight is big trouble.

Don't forget potatoes, cotton, rice and (I can't remember, but there is another one with serious problems). Fruit too has it's major challenges,
if you recall the apple problems from about three years ago.

And then there's foxes, rabbits, cats and pigs (even buffalo). A few vigorous men with guns would only make a minor dent there.

Cane toads? "R T" maybe has licked a few too many. The inverse of the prince kissing the frog?

> The last time I did a contract in Sydney with dear Wiley I seem to recall > the few weeks I was in the smoke, the man on telly warned me not > to drink the tap water as it was biologically compromised.
> I survived on beer ;-)

The alerts about what's in some beers are normally suppressed. Stick to Hahn, Coopers, and anything from Holland or Germany. Drink Aussie wines. Espresso machines kill crypto, but some coffees are not worth squatting on. [And for "R T"'s benefit, "Latte sipping" is not a way to appreciate coffee. Black, long or short. Or Caffe Corretto.

> The food chain has gone to hell, even stupid woger from cow college > can't argue that.

There have been a couple of improvements with avocados. Leeks have never looked better. But almost everything else is a little bit cheaper in real terms and a lot less tasty.

> Mark.
> > Cate.
Cate^2.


From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:08:09 +1000

"Peter Wiley" <peter_d_wiley@no-spam> wrote:
> The ones I don't trust are the snake-oil salesmen pushing GM crops. I > fail to see the need, and wonder if they'll 'manufacture' a need to > overcome consumer resistance. One thing we've all learnt is that > companies have zero sense of morality and will do literally anything > to grow their business.
>
> Peter Wiley
Hi Mr Wiley,

The recent progress on low allergy ryegrass sounds like a plus to me. If grasses fuck up, there are plenty of contending species to replace them.
The GM ryegrass is a suppressant variant - two genes turned off - so not really introducing exotic phenotype expression.

Sounds to me like a lot of the GM modified crops have potential to both come a cropper (because they haven't settled in to an ecosystem of any kind until we put them there), AND the possibility of jumping exotic genes into the wild. Eg, scorpion venom - not nice if your allergy happens to be to crustacean land critters and you're ticking into a nachos and drop dead. Not to worry "R T", he's unlikely to be allergic to anything that crawls...

Cate.


Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
From: nevilled@no-spam (Neville Duguid)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:04:47 GMT

Mark Addinall <addinall@no-spam> wrote:
> You may be right! Unfortunately, that amount of radiation > exposure is being felt in the human population as well.
> > Seems that earthworms around the reactor have significantly > changed breeding habits. For a long time they have preferred > a social scene that fit well into the long established sexual > nature of these creatures. Now they seem to be adopting > hetrosexual breeding liasons. A significant change after only > 20 years of exposure to radiological hazard.
> > given your background, here's an interesting article:
> > http://www.swan.ac.uk/cget/ejgt/article6.htm
Um, I know we have stretched our cultural interest as far as "Burke's Backyard" in aus.culture.true-blue on occasion. But that was only to comment on the relevance of the show and its on-screen personnel to True Blue Aussie culture - not to expand on that program's own specialised subject matter.

So, please guys, I can assure you your erudite accumulation of knowledge about science and GE-boosted plant breeding techniques is way over our heads in aus.culture.true-blue.. We can always tune in to aus.science if we suddenly decide Burke's Backyard is not fully covering our interests in that direction.

Apart from the nostalgic properties of Wiley's comments on the content of rainwater tanks, and Cate's comments on the tastlessness of commercially grown strawberries (which I am sure we all agree with),
this thread is developing all the hallmarks of a forced conversation between people who talk inappropriately loud on their mobiles in the mistaken belief they are impressing all within earshot - something which rarely works in practice outside the participants' own imaginations :-)


From: "RT" (r.thomas@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:00:11 +1000

Peter Wiley wrote in message <151fcb17.0306241645.53661d10@no-spam>...
>It was only a few lousy giardia over the allowable limit and everyone >went into panic mode.

Mmmmph - try finding that miserable little giardia/e.coli count anywhere on the Indian subcontinent.

> Hell, I drink tank water and birds shit on the >roof. The dilution factor means that (so far) I've come to no harm.

>> The food chain has gone to hell, even stupid woger from cow college >> can't argue that.

>I don't think it has, yet, but we're working on it. Certainly reducing >species diversity and increasing monocultures is a recipe for massive >disease outbreaks.

Was a spruik on Aunty a coupla weeks ago ref bananas. Banana growing elite have recognised there is effectively only ONE variety now being grown -
Cavendish - and they're not happy about it for the reasons you imply. The only other variety is LadyFingers.

>The ones I don't trust are the snake-oil salesmen pushing GM crops. I >fail to see the need, and wonder if they'll 'manufacture' a need to >overcome consumer resistance. One thing we've all learnt is that >companies have zero sense of morality and will do literally anything >to grow their business.

If you get bored have a look at the costs/results from GM cotton in Oz :-)
Heh, heh, heh....

Mind you, IMO all cotton in Oz should be ploughed in and fertilised with the hammer-milled bodies of the dudes responsible for planting it.


From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:18:32 +1000

"Tom Osborn" <MAPStom@no-spam> wrote:
> The Soviet block banned such vectors under Stalin's rule, and they have > only jus started to re-appear (spread by door handles at train stations I > hear).

Don't be silly. They captured them and planned to export them en masse.
Many went to Southern China. A few went to South Eastern Qld.

Cate.


From: "RT" (r.thomas@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:59:33 +1000

C McKew wrote in message ...
>
>"RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote in message news:bdbkoj$rcfeu$1@no-spam >>...
>> Was a spruik on Aunty a coupla weeks ago ref bananas. Banana growing elite >> have recognised there is effectively only ONE variety now being grown -
>> Cavendish - and they're not happy about it for the reasons you imply.
The >> only other variety is LadyFingers.
>
>Bananas are a special case. They are cultivars (clones). "Breeding" bananas is >an exercise for a very small number of specialists.
>
>BTW, Plantians have been around for rather a long while, wouldn't you say?

I expect so, from the plant/herb/tree/fern/whatever they grow on - something you wouldn't be surprised to see a fossil of.

And it's interesting that both spellings "...ian.." and "...ain.." seem established

From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:48:18 +1000

"RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote > > ...
> >BTW, Plantians have been around for rather a long while, wouldn't you say?
>
> I expect so, from the plant/herb/tree/fern/whatever they grow on - something > you wouldn't be surprised to see a fossil of.
>
> And it's interesting that both spellings "...ian.." and "...ain.." seem > established
Different parts of Africa. Pronounced like "Plarnt Yen", which morphs into "Plarnt En"...

So the colonial dictionary spelling fascists had to drop monolithic standards and accept diversity in spellink.

Cate.

PS: Standud spellink is a rizcent fenomenon. Webster wos continially re-rytink American (Merkin?) spellink, but et wos hiss secunde djenorashun spellink gyde wich got frozen in to the kulcha. Johnson was the main standardiser/standardizer in Brittaine. So much for the establishment...

PS: Crossposted to aus.culture.triewe-hlaewen.


From: peter_d_wiley@no-spam (Peter Wiley)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 18:27:50 -0700

"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message news:<pq6Ka.899$p8.32891@no-spam>...

> "Peter Wiley" <peter_d_wiley@no-spam> wrote:
> > The ones I don't trust are the snake-oil salesmen pushing GM crops. I > > fail to see the need, and wonder if they'll 'manufacture' a need to > > overcome consumer resistance. One thing we've all learnt is that > > companies have zero sense of morality and will do literally anything > > to grow their business.
> >
> > Peter Wiley > > Hi Mr Wiley,
> > The recent progress on low allergy ryegrass sounds like a plus to me. If > grasses fuck up, there are plenty of contending species to replace them.
> The GM ryegrass is a suppressant variant - two genes turned off - so > not really introducing exotic phenotype expression.
> > Sounds to me like a lot of the GM modified crops have potential to > both come a cropper (because they haven't settled in to an ecosystem > of any kind until we put them there), AND the possibility of jumping > exotic genes into the wild. Eg, scorpion venom - not nice if your > allergy happens to be to crustacean land critters and you're ticking > into a nachos and drop dead. Not to worry "R T", he's unlikely to > be allergic to anything that crawls...

It's the exotic gene insertion that concerns me. Quite a bit of GM tech is just doing what classical plant breeding does anyway. I still fail to see the point and in some cases, as Roger says, the proponents should be shot. Creating plants which can withstand massive doses of herbicide for example, or pesticides.

As for scorpions, they're not crustaceans, land or otherwise.

Peter Wiley

From: "Tom Osborn" (MAPStom@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:30:51 +1000

"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message =
news:WVpKa.1250$p8.52854@no-spam >=20
> "Tom Osborn" <MAPStom@no-spam> wrote:
> > The Soviet block banned such vectors under Stalin's rule, and they =
have > > only jus started to re-appear (spread by door handles at train =
stations I > > hear).
>=20
> Don't be silly. They captured them and planned to export them en =
masse.
> Many went to Southern China. A few went to South Eastern Qld. > =
Cate.

I think the ones that went to Queensland mutated...


From: "Tom Osborn" (MAPStom@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:13:42 +1000

"Peter Wiley" <peter_d_wiley@no-spam> wrote in message =
news:151fcb17.0306261727.c7b1267@no-spam > "C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message =
news:<pq6Ka.899$p8.32891@no-spam>...
> > "Peter Wiley" <peter_d_wiley@no-spam> wrote:
> > > The ones I don't trust are the snake-oil salesmen pushing GM =
crops. I > > > fail to see the need, and wonder if they'll 'manufacture' a need =
to > > > overcome consumer resistance. One thing we've all learnt is that > > > companies have zero sense of morality and will do literally =
anything > > > to grow their business.
> > >
> > > Peter Wiley > >=20
> > Hi Mr Wiley,
> >=20
> > The recent progress on low allergy ryegrass sounds like a plus to =
me. If > > grasses fuck up, there are plenty of contending species to replace =
them.
> > The GM ryegrass is a suppressant variant - two genes turned off - so > > not really introducing exotic phenotype expression.
> >=20
> > Sounds to me like a lot of the GM modified crops have potential to > > both come a cropper (because they haven't settled in to an ecosystem > > of any kind until we put them there), AND the possibility of jumping > > exotic genes into the wild. Eg, scorpion venom - not nice if your > > allergy happens to be to crustacean land critters and you're ticking > > into a nachos and drop dead. Not to worry "R T", he's unlikely to > > be allergic to anything that crawls...
>=20
> It's the exotic gene insertion that concerns me. Quite a bit of GM > tech is just doing what classical plant breeding does anyway. I still > fail to see the point and in some cases, as Roger says, the proponents > should be shot. Creating plants which can withstand massive doses of > herbicide for example, or pesticides.
>=20
> As for scorpions, they're not crustaceans, land or otherwise.

What about Eurypterids?

Tomasso.


From: "Tom Osborn" (xyz@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:35:47 +1000

"Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote:
> .... <wise words, retrievable via googlegroups>

Hi Mark,

Just wondering whether Mark Latham is related to Ned Latham.

Bit like the Costello brothers. Or Peter Reith and a pig's arse...

And who in Guvmint is emulating Francis Urquhart? =20

Also, in speculation mode:

I reckon Johnnie's House of Cards is a lot more vulnerable right now than most people think.=20

In the past year and a bit he's seriously affronted his Navy, his Army=20
and his spooks. He's given defence "money", but it's not actually money (or improved resources)! The bush is getting lied to again.=20
Tax payers have experienced another con job. The dollar is going too fucking high. Medical care has been turned into:=20
(a) an insurance scam which makes HIH nepotism and backhanders=20
look like Playschool, (b) an engine for re-distribution of wealth along=20
the US model, (c) naive bean-counting ways to damage an essential service (sounds familiar), or (d) all of the above. [And I didn't even mention Education].

And then he's dudded poor Pete, and told a few more porkies about Iraq (and elsewhere). I hear he seriously sold out three good old establishment mates from the Liberal Party core, as well...

I predict a catestrophic breakdown by September. Packer will have a hand in it... ...because the end of the Howard Era is inevitable, =
and you can sell more papers if you beat up THAT story. [When the shite hits the fanny].

Tomasso.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 20:53:48 -0700

ned@no-spam (Ned Latham) wrote in message news:<slrnbfk8ki.1is.ned@no-spam>...
> Muck Addinall, the last surviving specimen of Homo Defectus, wrote > in <246279a.0306212325.4af1d6c9@no-spam>:
> > 989 lines of blather in order to present two proposals: a messaging > system and a Beowulf cluster.
> > Unusually for the defect, they're worth reading, so here they are > again, with most of the waffle removed:

Bad noddy,
editing my work and presenting it as your own. Does Apex favour theft as well?

Mark Addinall
> > ----snip----
> > > Now more than any time in the past, I have a grave concern that > > Australia, through the mean machinations of politics, is now at > > great risk in regards to a post-modernist terrorist attack using > > non-conventional weapons towards the civilian population. I'd like > > to suggest some ways of stopping or controlling that unfortunate > > scenario.
> > ----snip----
> > > A MULTI-DISCIPLINARY APPROACH TO PRACTICAL BIO-TERRORISM DETECTION.
> > by Mark Addinall > > ----snip----
> > > // messaging module > > // -----------------
> > // The mailman module is the primary set of routines that this message > > // based system is built around. This approach was taken so that KOOKABURRA > > // can be implemented in a civilian location and not be constrained by the > > // availability of restricted military communication systems.
> > //
> > // The mailman has a list of entities to be contacted depending on the > > // circumstances and severity.
> > ----snip----
> > > // The controllers and respondants are of course subject to the > > // implementation of a KOOKABURRA unit, but would likely include > > // PARAKEET controllers, AUSTACCS controllers, local police (if > > // applicable), local SES (if applicable), medical and paramedical > > // organisations, fire services (if applicable), BCN response > > // teams, civil emergency etc. In a civilian implementation, some > > // form of audio/visual response is considered (bells_and_whistles()),
> > // although flashing light may be inappropriate in a theatre-of-war > > // deployment of KOOKABURRA. I envisage that our KOOKABURRA unit > > // would be in close proximity to a PARAKEET unit. This may not be > > // so however.
> > [...]
> >
> > Now in Australia, the military has PARAKEET, AUSTACCS and RAVEN (at > > least), EVERY doctor and hospital in Australia can easily be supplied > > with the equipment to enable them as a node on a broadband WAN, the > > police, the SES, the weather bureue, the ambulance etc, all have > > communications networks in place. To get near real-time communication > > happening in Australia would really be quite an ordinary project of > > systems integration based on messaging systems. Since TCP/IP and SMTP > > seem to have won the day, the job is simplified futher.
> > ----snip----
> > > To defend against chimera-type infections then a lot more time > > and money needs to be spent on computational biology. Describing > > the molecular structure of a re-combinant virus, and describing > > its DNA (RNA) in a short time frame is vital. Once this is achieved,
> > then treatment cna be considered at the level of molecular immunology.
> > ----snip----
> > > Now, trying to keep the costs as low as possible, are you all aware > > of how many PC type machines are discarded by the public service > > every year? Mostly because they are no longer large enough to run the > > latest and greatest from Microslop. For little less than effort,
> > these machines could be used to build a very impressive cluster.
> > Start with 2000 nodes of 1 GHz machines. That should provide 2-3
> > Teraflops. The switches and the copper layer needs to be purchased,
> > but most of the OS and tools comes for free. Much cheaper than one > > submarine.....
> >
> > Apart from BIO-defence, some other rather obvious spin-offs are > > obvious for a government thinking out of the box a little, and > > considering implementing this type of approach.
> >
> > - Knowledge nation. Joint ventures between Universities, government > > and private enterprise. Australia has done this in the past, why > > not again?
> >
> > - Taking computational biology and molecular immunology the next step.
> > As some of you are aware, designing a drug costs hundreds and hundreds > > of millions of dollars, with a great chance of failing. The design of > > drugs using in-silico modelling could reduce these costs, and provide > > a new industry for Australia, this goes some way to address;
> > ----snip----
> > Ned

From: ned@no-spam (Ned Latham)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:24:20 GMT

Tom Osborn wrote in <3f0a7450$1_1@no-spam>:

----snip----

> Just wondering whether Mark Latham is related to Ned Latham.

About as closely as you are to Ozzie, I suppose.

(Osbourne, Ostrich... take your pick.)

----snip----

Ned -- Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu/ http://www.keyserver.net/en/
Fingerprint: D17C FDD5 BBA8 8687 42E3 C8F2 C9FB 0314 E17A 0CD7


From: ned@no-spam (Ned Latham)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:43:56 GMT

Muck Addinall, one of the last surviving specimens of Homo Defectus, wrote in <246279a.0307141953.ea37eee@no-spam>:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > Muck Addinall, the last surviving specimen of Homo Defectus, wrote:
> >
> > 989 lines of blather in order to present two proposals: a messaging > > system and a Beowulf cluster.
> >
> > Unusually for the defect, they're worth reading, so here they are > > again, with most of the waffle removed:
>
> Bad noddy,
> editing my work
Call the removal of 900 lines of your incoherent waffle a public service.

> and presenting it as your own.

You moron. It's explicitly acknowledged as *your* work, you fuckwit.
Get someone who understands English to read the above intro to you.

> Does Apex favour theft > as well?

It took you *three weeks* to come up with that idiocy? You're too fuckin' stupid for words, Addinall.

----snip----

Ned -- Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu/ http://www.keyserver.net/en/
Fingerprint: D17C FDD5 BBA8 8687 42E3 C8F2 C9FB 0314 E17A 0CD7


From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:40:40 GMT

"Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote in message news:slrnbh87df.5mq.ned@no-spam > Tom Osborn wrote in <3f0a7450$1_1@no-spam>:
>
> ----snip----
>
> > Just wondering whether Mark Latham is related to Ned Latham.
>
> About as closely as you are to Ozzie, I suppose.
>
> (Osbourne, Ostrich... take your pick.)

He looks a bit more like the latter than the former. Who would want to be like Ozzy Osbourne?

Tom swears more like the former (but with meaning rather than habit).

Cate.


From: "Tom Osborn" (xyz@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:55:57 +1000

"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message =
news:YnlRa.7550$wU5.7473@no-spam >=20
> "Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote in message =
news:slrnbh87df.5mq.ned@no-spam > > Tom Osborn wrote in <3f0a7450$1_1@no-spam>:
> >
> > ----snip----
> >
> > > Just wondering whether Mark Latham is related to Ned Latham.
> >
> > About as closely as you are to Ozzie, I suppose.
> >
> > (Osbourne, Ostrich... take your pick.)
>=20
> He looks a bit more like the latter than the former.=20

Be careful about relatives Cate. I may be relatively more similar to a =
stick with a beak and eyes on it, than a UK loser degenerate attention seeker.
I am absolutely very dissimilar to both of them.=20

I would say that by temperament, Mark and Ned have a bit more in common.

> Who would want to be like Ozzy Osbourne?

Sadly, a lot of people I have known.=20

> Tom swears more like the former (but with meaning rather than habit).

'ken oath, chickie.

Tomasso.


From: "Tom Osborn" (xyz@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:32:44 +1000

"Tom Osborn" <xyz@no-spam> wrote > "C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote > > "Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote > > > > Just wondering whether Mark Latham is related to Ned Latham.
> > >
> > > About as closely as you are to Ozzie, I suppose.
> > >
> > > (Osbourne, Ostrich... take your pick.)
> >=20
> > He looks a bit more like the latter than the former.=20
>
> Be careful about relatives Cate. I may be relatively more similar to a =
stick > with a beak and eyes on it, than a UK loser degenerate attention =
seeker.
> I am absolutely very dissimilar to both of them.=20

I think I'm confusing "Dickie" and "Ozzie", the two puppets who used to work at Channel 9 (or was it 7) - as opposed to those puppets who work there now.

Tom.


From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:17:54 GMT

"Tom Osborn" <xyz@no-spam> wrote "Tom Osborn" <xyz@no-spam> wrote > >
> > Be careful about relatives Cate. I may be relatively more similar to a stick
> > with a beak and eyes on it, than a UK loser degenerate attention seeker.
> > I am absolutely very dissimilar to both of them.
>
> I think I'm confusing "Dickie" and "Ozzie", ...

Tom,

You shouldn't be confusing your dickie with anything...

Cate.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 23:36:15 -0700

"RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote in message news:<bd9e1d$qqffs$1@no-spam>...
> Mark Addinall wrote in message > <246279a.0306231950.33d45f6b@no-spam>...
> >"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message news:<sOsJa.2068
> >> And of course, you are referring to the > >> direct threats. There's also attacks on the food chain (grains, meat,
> fish,
> >> water, even the so-called value add on the supply chain of food > processing > >> and retail store stock levels). There have been issues on ALL of those > >> in recent years without a hint that Al Qaeda, Baade Meinhopf the second > >> generation, or the John Birch Society were involved.
> >>
> >> There's bio-vulnerability everywhere you look.
> > >Could not agree more, and in most cases laziness and a deal > >of stupidity are far more dangerous than the possibility of > >terrorism (although I do believe that our chances of attracting > >a terrorist attack are now increased severalfold).
> >
> >We are seeing a natural attack on grains in Australia at the moment.
> >Cut the bio-diversity of foodstuffs down to one or two specific > >species, then a blight is big trouble.
> > Erm - <coff> - 'cept it seems to have been in the wild for a few years > without being noticed... <smirk>

What are you talking about Woger? And smirking at your own jokes is a trifle odd.

> > >The last time I did a contract in Sydney with dear Wiley I seem to recall > >the few weeks I was in the smoke, the man on telly warned me not > >to drink the tap water as it was biologically compromised.
> >I survived on beer ;-)
> > That figgers. "biologically compromised" :-) :-)
> > >The food chain has gone to hell, even stupid woger from cow college > >can't argue that.
> > If you're an american
Incorrect. British by birth, Australian by nature.

> woofter
Am I homosexual? What an interesting question. The upshot is no, but thank you for your interest. I do however have many mates who happen to be male. Does that count?

> brought up on a diet of antibiotic-laden
I thought that my interest in the over-use of anti-biotics was considered "spooking" by you. I do wish you would try and be a little more carefull on your "side" to argument.

Your fixation with National Geographic aside, if you have a small squiz at the Communicable Disease Intelligence Supplement,
Antimicrobial Resistance in Australia, Volume 27 - 2003, you will find a wealth of information. The intra-species comparisons on page S123 are very interesting. Good for all Escherichia Coli seems to be becoming quite a little bug heh?

> kentucky cat and/or grossed out big mac cholesterol burgers (which, judging > from your reaction to the Syd water warning I suspect you are)
You presume too much Woger. I dare say I have trodden ground that you have not. Spent a lot of time in Panama? Africa? Even Tiwi?
My reaction to a Sydney water alert was as to be expected. Do you ignore fire alarms? Those red lights on the dash of your twin that says "fuel feed"? You must be blessed to be still alive.

> then you are > totally correct. *Your* one-dimensional food chain is fucked up and you > are going to die. Maybe tomorrow or the next day, so you better start > digging a hole.

I have, in the past, dug a number of holes. Coal mining springs to mind,
as does my years with the Regiment. After that, Lead and Zinc mining,
and a fair whallop of anthropology brings me up to date.

> > However, any other reasonable person used to exposure during their life to > assorted feral sports and variants, will cruise happily on.

http://www2.ozland.net.au/addinall/shoot.htm
Yawn.

> > IOW, you admit you can't hack it. Not a problem - tuck your pet dodo under > your arm and blow us a kiss goodbye.

As mentioned (up in the text), I am flattered you wish to kiss me,
but woger, that can't be.

> > Stop whining, admit you are unable to adapt and are therefore both > irrelevant and obsolete (ie, anachronistic) - and FOAD.

A very tiresome excuse for a flame. If you can't make it interesting by virtue of knowledge, then try and post an interesting pattern.

> > Loser.

Retard.

Mark Addinall.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 23:43:03 -0700

"Tom Osborn" <xyz@no-spam> wrote in message news:<3f0a7450$1_1@no-spam>...
> "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote:
> > .... <wise words, retrievable via googlegroups>
> > Hi Mark,

Dearest Tom :-)

> > Just wondering whether Mark Latham is related to Ned Latham.

Possibly. If you add up the collective IQ it results in a cabbalistic number, 23. Ask Hillard the meaning, for I am sworn to secrecy ;-)

> > Bit like the Costello brothers. Or Peter Reith and a pig's arse...
> > And who in Guvmint is emulating Francis Urquhart? > > Also, in speculation mode:
> > I reckon Johnnie's House of Cards is a lot more vulnerable right now > than most people think. > > In the past year and a bit he's seriously affronted his Navy, his Army > and his spooks. He's given defence "money", but it's not actually > money (or improved resources)! The bush is getting lied to again. > Tax payers have experienced another con job. The dollar is going > too fucking high. Medical care has been turned into: > (a) an insurance scam which makes HIH nepotism and backhanders > look like Playschool, (b) an engine for re-distribution of wealth along > the US model, (c) naive bean-counting ways to damage an essential > service (sounds familiar), or (d) all of the above. [And I didn't even > mention Education].
> > And then he's dudded poor Pete, and told a few more porkies about > Iraq (and elsewhere). I hear he seriously sold out three good old > establishment mates from the Liberal Party core, as well...
> > I predict a catestrophic breakdown by September. Packer will have a > hand in it... ...because the end of the Howard Era is inevitable, > and > you can sell more papers if you beat up THAT story. [When the shite > hits the fanny].

Interesting enough. He has upset the spooks. Tsk.
The large problem Australia has is the lack of an alternative.

Sell the tin can. Much more interesting stuff to work on,
read Popov, MS, Interlukien-4, recombinant RNA virus and HHV-6 for a start.

toodles,

Marky.

> > Tomasso.


From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 06:31:44 GMT

"Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote > "Tom Osborn" <MAPStom@no-spam CAPS.nuix.com.au> wrote > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote > > > "C McKew" <cate mckew@no-spam> wrote > > > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > As for scorpions, they're not crustaceans, land or otherwise.
> >
> > What about Eurypterids?
>
> Nope. Bugs aren't crustaceans.
>
> Marky.

Mark and Peter are right. Tom needs a fact checker at times. His imagination and biasses sometimes get the better of him, but I'm sure he enjoys it!

As for me, I sometimes make mistakes, and enjoy myself.

CCCate.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 23:49:24 -0700

"Tom Osborn" <MAPStom@no-spam CAPS.nuix.com.au> wrote in message news:<3ef802a3$1_1@no-spam>...

> "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote:
> > "RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote > > > ... Blardy hell - can just see the 3 of you on a bright summer day > at a footpath > > > cafe sucking on a red with the lovely people streaming past... and > all > > > three of you looking as though you have a dog turd shoved up your > nose as > > > you worry desperately about things that *might* happen and which you > can't > > > control.
> > > > Are your delusions important to this discussion? If so, how?
> > Wodger gets some very strange interpretations of people. I'm a joyous > optimist > who is very excited about viruses and indeed the whole web of life.
We should really do some work together.

> Even > trains make me feel mildly aroused. A good theorem, or an efficient > learning > algorithm is better than a bottle of Grange.
Ahhh...... Compiler design. Top down stepwise refinement of syntax parsers :-))))))))))

> [But you can have both]. > Wiley is > one of those extreme aesthetes who is so imbued with passion about > things > like boats and tools, and ideas, that he almost forgets that there are > so > many fuckwits about (he forgets till he has to work with one).
And then they don't last long ;-)

> And Mark > simply entertains hisself in aus.politics while he cultivates a depth of > rigor > and passion rarely seen in a millenium. > > True.

How kind.

> > > > Personally I blame your parents - they should have read you Winnie > the Pooh > > > instead of that crap by Marcuse.
> > One wonders whether Wodger was invented for daytime TV, or vice versa.
> > Winnie the Pooh is fine, but a bit stodgey in an Anglo-naive frollic > with > anthropomorphised animated stuffed animals. Disney saw it as a > compulsory acquisition. Maybe Douglas Adams or Kurt Vonnegut > is a way out of Wodger's ever decreasing cycles of atopical senility...

It does rather seem that Wogers white mata no longer will mata.
A subject for one of my HHV-6 scans I think......

> > But maybe he's just pretending. :-).
> > > Handbook for British Petrochemical Engineers was one of the > > first prezzies I remember from Dad. Mum used to buy me Biggles.
> > I remember Coles Funny picture book,
Oooh, oooh, I had that. And a 4 volume tome entitled "The Wonder of Science".

> and one of my great grandfather's > science textbook dated 1899. Plus a golden book about "Tawny Scrawny > Lion", and "The Saggy Baggy Elephant". In my second year I moved on to > Jules Verne and HG Welles, followed by Le Recherche de Temps Perdu,
> but I could only get a Finnish translation. After that is was Feynman,
> later writings of Kant, and a few comics. But I think Puckoon was my > favourite book of all time...

Cerebus is a good read.

Marky.

> > Cheese, Tomasso.


From: "Tom Osborn" (Ctom.UosbornT@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:50:06 GMT

"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote=20
>=20
> "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote > > "Tom Osborn" <MAPStom@no-spam CAPS.nuix.com.au> wrote > > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote > > > > "C McKew" <cate mckew@no-spam> wrote > > > > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote:
> > > > > ...
> > > > As for scorpions, they're not crustaceans, land or otherwise.
> > >
> > > What about Eurypterids?
> >
> > Nope. Bugs aren't crustaceans.
> >
> > Marky.
>=20
> Mark and Peter are right. Tom needs a fact checker at times. His > imagination and biasses sometimes get the better of him, but I'm > sure he enjoys it!

Perhaps I did make a mistake, or maybe paleo-taxonomies are in need of revision.... :-) =20

But I expect it is my mistake.

> As for me, I sometimes make mistakes, and enjoy myself.
>=20
> CCCate.

As for you. You sometimes sound like you know what you're talking about. And THAT could be a mistake around here.

Tomasso.


Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
From: Peter Lucas (skyscum@no-spam)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:03:04 GMT

addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall) was heard to surreptitiously bellow news:246279a.0307182236.39d7c178@no-spam
Hey you scrawny pommy bastard!! Drop me an email.

Got some news you can pass to Ratlady.


From: ned@no-spam (Ned Latham)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:47 GMT

Muck Addinall, one of the last surviving specimens of Homo Defectus, wrote in <246279a.0307182236.39d7c178@no-spam>:
> "RT" wrote:

----snip----

> > If you're an american >
> Incorrect. British by birth, Australian by nature.

Bullshit. If you're Australian by any criterion at all, it's the legalism of citizenship. As to your inclination, see:

Subject: You're a fuckin' white ant, Addinall.
Message-ID: <slrnb2himi.6en.nenosed@no-spam>

----snip----

Ned -- Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu/ http://www.keyserver.net/en/
Fingerprint: D17C FDD5 BBA8 8687 42E3 C8F2 C9FB 0314 E17A 0CD7


From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:14:32 GMT

"Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote >...
> > > You moron. It's explicitly acknowledged as *your* work, you fuckwit.
>
> So you accept that, huh? Feel free to apologize for your defamatory > accusation, filth. If you can ever scrape up enough courage to do so.
>
>...Oh, of course not. You're a fuckin' moron.

Now now boys. Wouldn't it be better if you got on with your life and stopped this trivial name calling? I can assure you that masturbation is more satisfying and likely to reduce your risk of prostate cancer (according to the latest research).

Also:

> Can you tell an integer from an interval?

Naturellement garcons.

Can you tell the difference between a set and a type?

Cate.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 00:06:39 -0700

Peter Lucas <skyscum@no-spam> wrote in message news:<Xns93BF70986B044skyscumearthlingnet@no-spam>...

> addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall) was heard to surreptitiously > bellow news:246279a.0307182236.39d7c178@no-spam > > Hey you scrawny pommy bastard!! Drop me an email.
> > Got some news you can pass to Ratlady.

OKI DOKI. I'll pop to my other systems to-morrow.

Marky.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 20:09:59 -0700

"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message news:<szjTa.8978$OM3.5540@no-spam>...

> "Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote > >...
> > > > You moron. It's explicitly acknowledged as *your* work, you fuckwit.
> >
> > So you accept that, huh? Feel free to apologize for your defamatory > > accusation, filth. If you can ever scrape up enough courage to do so.
> >
> >...Oh, of course not. You're a fuckin' moron.
> > Now now boys. Wouldn't it be better if you got on with your life and > stopped this trivial name calling?
Name calling is not trivial. I should remind you that life is a four letter word, and indeed, the very mechanism of liff also requires the used of quatran codons.

Besides, noddy is a fuckwit.

> I can assure you that masturbation > is more satisfying and likely to reduce your risk of prostate cancer > (according to the latest research).

I would suggest his lower bowel has more concern than prostate cancer.
Most of his ex-convict mates would attest to the ease of entry.

> > Also:
> > > Can you tell an integer from an interval?
> > Naturellement garcons.
> > Can you tell the difference between a set and a type?

Don't test the poor lad.

Can you tell the difference twixt a seti and a typo?

Marky.

> > Cate.


From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 06:48:27 GMT

"Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote in message news:246279a.0307262159.3d92f808@no-spam > "Tom Osborn" <Ctom.UosbornT@no-spam> wrote in message news:<2NGSa.6474$OM3.1221@no-spam>...
> > "C McKew" <cate mckew@no-spam> wrote > > >
> > > "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote > > > > "Tom Osborn" <MAPStom@no-spam CAPS.nuix.com.au> wrote > > > > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote > > > > > > "C McKew" <cate mckew@no-spam> wrote > > > > > > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote:
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > As for scorpions, they're not crustaceans, land or otherwise.
> > > > >
> > > > > What about Eurypterids?
> > > >
> > > > Nope. Bugs aren't crustaceans.
> > > >
> > > > Marky.
> > >
> > > Mark and Peter are right. Tom needs a fact checker at times. His > > > imagination and biasses sometimes get the better of him, but I'm > > > sure he enjoys it!
> >
> > Perhaps I did make a mistake, or maybe paleo-taxonomies are in need > > of revision.... :-)
>
>
> On that note; on a lazy Sundat arvo, preparing for Uranium (did I tell > you about a bug that can eat Uranium Sulphate and poo pure metallic > Uranium? Curious).....
>
>
> Animals > Plants > Fungi > Ciliates > Slime Molds > Noddy latham > Flagellites > Microsporidia > Diplomonads >
> green non-sulfur bacteria > gram positives Sulfolobus > protobacteria Desulfurococcus > cyanobacteria Pyrodictium Thermofilum > flavobacteria Thermoprotcus > Thermotoga Pyrobaculum > Aquifex Pyrococcus > Methanopyrus > Methanothermus > Methanococcus > jannaschii > igneus > thermolithot-

> rophius > vanniellii > Archacoglobus > Halococcus > Halobacterium > Methanosarcina > Methanoplasmus > Methanospirillum
>
> rickettsia(?) virridia(?)
> filovirridia(?)
> protiens(?) RNA(?)
> DNA (?)
> Star stuff (?)
>
>
>
> Curious aint it?

Bit unkind to the slime moulds! They have a much more adventurous life than the guys around here (they know who they are - maybe the tinfoil on their "non-foot protuberance" interferes with having fun). They skulk around like a slug, morph into an impressive 2 to 5 mm erection and then spread their spore which (after a good feed aggregating into a skulking slugs again)...


First one I ever saw was on the fetlock of a horse...

The bugs sound mildly impressive (I bet it's dense). Give me one that separates U-235 from U-238.

Cate.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 03:06:56 -0700

"C McKew" <cate_mckew@no-spam> wrote in message news:<%AKUa.17727$OM3.6229@no-spam>...

> "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote in message > news:246279a.0307262159.3d92f808@no-spam > > "Tom Osborn" <Ctom.UosbornT@no-spam> wrote in message > news:<2NGSa.6474$OM3.1221@no-spam>...
> > > "C McKew" <cate mckew@no-spam> wrote > > > >
> > > > "Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote > > > > > "Tom Osborn" <MAPStom@no-spam CAPS.nuix.com.au> wrote > > > > > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote > > > > > > > "C McKew" <cate mckew@no-spam> wrote > > > > > > > > "Peter Wiley" <peter d wiley@no-spam> wrote:
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > As for scorpions, they're not crustaceans, land or otherwise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What about Eurypterids?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. Bugs aren't crustaceans.
> > > > >
> > > > > Marky.
> > > >
> > > > Mark and Peter are right. Tom needs a fact checker at times. His > > > > imagination and biasses sometimes get the better of him, but I'm > > > > sure he enjoys it!
> > >
> > > Perhaps I did make a mistake, or maybe paleo-taxonomies are in need > > > of revision.... :-)
> >
> >
> > On that note; on a lazy Sundat arvo, preparing for Uranium (did I tell > > you about a bug that can eat Uranium Sulphate and poo pure metallic > > Uranium? Curious).....
> >
> >
> > Animals > > Plants > > Fungi > > Ciliates > > Slime Molds > > Noddy latham > > Flagellites > > Microsporidia > > Diplomonads > >
> > green non-sulfur bacteria > > gram positives Sulfolobus > > protobacteria Desulfurococcus > > cyanobacteria Pyrodictium Thermofilum > > flavobacteria Thermoprotcus > > Thermotoga Pyrobaculum > > Aquifex Pyrococcus > > Methanopyrus > > Methanothermus
> > Methanococcus > > jannaschii > > igneus > > thermolithot-

> > rophius > > vanniellii > > Archacoglobus > > Halococcus > > Halobacterium > > Methanosarcina
> > Methanoplasmus
> > Methanospirillum
> >
> > rickettsia(?) virridia(?)
> > filovirridia(?)
> > protiens(?) RNA(?)
> > DNA (?)
> > Star stuff (?)
> >
> >
> >
> > Curious aint it?
> > Bit unkind to the slime moulds!
I know. I wuz agreeved at the loss of property value suffered by Mr und Ms Physarum. But where to a large bag of shit like noddy? After a large bag of cytoplasm with many diploid nuclei seemed the ideal place.

I'm open to suggestions however.

> They have a much more adventurous life > than the guys around here (they know who they are - maybe the tinfoil > on their "non-foot protuberance" interferes with having fun).
An Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie (AFDB) is a type of headwear that can shield your brain from most electromagnetic psychotronic mind control carriers. AFDBs are inexpensive (even free if you don't mind scrounging for thrown-out aluminium foil) and can be constructed by anyone with at least the dexterity of a chimp (maybe bonobo). This cheap and unobtrusive form of mind control protection offers real security to the masses.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
Gosh. You have noddy all summed up already. Small wonder dearest old Tom seems to favour you a little.

> They skulk around > like a slug, morph into an impressive 2 to 5 mm erection and then spread > their spore which (after a good feed aggregating into a skulking slugs again)...

> > First one I ever saw was on the fetlock of a horse...
> > The bugs sound mildly impressive (I bet it's dense). Give me one that separates
> U-235 from U-238.

That might be a hard ask.....

I shall give my best "Biggles" effort what?

Marky.

> > Cate.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 04:09:27 -0700

ned@no-spam (Ned Latham) wrote in message news:<slrnbho5ll.365.ned@no-spam>...

> > > It took you *three weeks* to come up with that idiocy? You're too > > > fuckin' stupid for words, Addinall.
> >
> > Ding Dong. Sad as it may be, but the world does not revolve around > > your posts.
> > Your obsessive need to refer to me in posts that have nothing to do > with me indicates that you think otherwise.

That makes little sense. Good. Don't dissapoint anyone. If I refer to you in one of my interesting, vibrant and always entertaining posts,
then it obviously DOES have something to do with you.

I use you as a kind of stupid yardstick from which to judge the rest of the population. What an example of the master race!

> > > It has taken three weeks, to do exactly three weeks > > work.
> > Thinking up a stupid little question like yours above is three week's > work?
No noddy, USENET is entertainment. Work is entirely different.
You should try it. On the other hand, it's probably safer if you keep clinging to nursie.

Some things are more important, and vastly more interesting than USENET. Travel, food, rugby and pretty girls are distractions.
Work is also a challenge, and takes considerable effort to maintain my edge as the brightest bloke on the planet. As such:

-------------
An Indication of Retrovirus Infection of the Central Nervous System by Human Herpesvirus-6 in the Presentation of Multiple Sclerosis. A Computational Model of the Proposed Infection Lifecycle.

Mark Addinall.
2003

Several studies have been caried out over the last decade in regard to the incidence of HHV-6 titer in the Sera and CSF of patients presenting with Chronic or Acute Multiple Sclerosis.

Subacute Leukoencephalitus caused by CNS Infection with Human Herpesvirus-6 Manifesting as Acute Multiple Sclerosis, Carrington,
D.R., Harrington D., Knox, K.K.

Neuroinvasion and Persistence of Human Herpesvirus in Children. Casserta, M.T., et alia. Journal of Infectious Diseases 170:1586 -
1994.

Plaque Associated Expression of Human Herpesvirus-6 in Multiple Sclerosis. Proceedings of The National Academy of Sciences. 92,
1995, p 7444.

Immune Responses to Antigens of Human Endogenous Retroviruses in Patients with Acute or Stable Multiple Sclerosis. Clerici, M., et alia. Journal of Neuroimmunology 99, 1999 p 173.

Integration of Human Herpesvirus-6 Genome in Human Chromosones. Lupp,
M., et alia. The Lancet 352, 1998, p 1707.

Herpesvirus-6 Might Trigger Multiple Sclerosis. Moore, P. The Lancet 350 1997, p 1685.

It is the intention of this paper to provide a computational model to test the hypothesis that acute and chronic Multiple Sclerosis may result from a persistent infection by Human Herpesvirus-6.

Human herpesvirus 6 (HHV-6), a latent lymphotropic and neurotropic virus, has been
[....]

You can request a copy if you like. After Tom has had a read of course.
(Tom's a little smarter than I, not much)

> You're too fuckin' stupid for words, Addinall.

You say? Have you managed to open your box yet?

> > > Why not impress us all with your project to top up the seas > > salt resource. That was funny.
> > Your incomprehensions are pathetic, not funny.

Go on, go on, tell us how you want to build a 500km conveyer belt to feed the sea with SALT!

Ha!

> > > Got the lid off your box yet?
> > Have you worked out how to read a timestamp yet?
Good old noddy. You'll never learn will you?
Try again.......

From wayback, before I got interested in bugs......

+----------------------------+--------+---------------------------------------+
|Mark Addinall |Opinions|1. Never share a Foxhole with someone |
|Senior Software Engineer | unlike | braver than yourself. |
|AWA Defence Industries | ORIONS |2. Your Rifle was made by the lowest |
|PH 02 8877 111 | belong | bidder. |
|MOB 015 895 977 | solely |3. Teamwork is essential, it gives |
|inet: maddinal@no-spam |to me| them someone else to shoot at;-=) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

In any system the time services must ensure that a consistent notion of time exists throughout the network. This is one of the base requirements for system security and the negotiation between trusted computer systems.

Time management is not a system management function but a response to a distributed system requirement to maintain a common perception of time throughout the processing environment.

Most critical systems, military networks, power generation, use a standard described in SNMPv2 to describe events.
authSrcTimestamp according to the partyAuthClock and the authDistTimestamp representing the time recorded by the partyAuthClock of the destination system.

As a part of system message authentication between discrete processes then the following MUST be met:

partyAuthClock.A - authTimestamp <= partAuthLifetime.A
For satellite communications which is generally where I live the time of atmospheric propogation needs to be factored into the equation.

Now, in a system with more than one node four conditions can arise that need to be catered for: These are,

. The manager's version of the agents clock (CC->NC(A)) is greater than the agent's version of the agent's clock (NC(A)). This will create a false rejection.

. The manager's version of the manager's clock (CC->CC(A)) is greater than the agents version of the manager's clock (NC->CC(A)).
This can create a false acceptance of a message as authentic.

. The agent's version of the agent's clock (NC->NC(A)) is greater than the manager's version of the agent's clock (CC->NC(A)).
This also creates the risk of a false acceptance of a message as authentic. Finally,

. The agent's version of the manager's clock (NC->CC(A)) is greater than the manager's version version of the manager's clock (CC->CC(A)).
This is a false rejection race.

The notion of time over a distributed set of related procedures is complex enough without having a concrete deadline. It may not matter to you, "What time is smoko" or "when do the cartoons start", but if you are trying to synchronise some LEOs zipping around at several hundred m/s^2 or calculating how long a 238 fission should run, then you really need to be within cooeee. Dig?

The timing mechanism must be robust enough to function in a near real time manner and also be defined to a stage where a clear causality of process can be determined by the examination of timing data.

Using PARAKEET as a prime example (I know it very well as I wrote the math for that one) you can observe that a loosely coupled distributed system consists of a number of independent and co-operative nodes that will communicate using a message passing system. In the case of PARAKEET,
SMTP for ordered data, and SNMPv2 alerts for out of bandwidth data.
There exists no shared memory or common clock. Every node has at least one local clock, and the Juliet time will differ between nodes.
Distributed systems can be a little difficult to design because of the parallelism among nodes and the drop rates of the individual nodes.
This can lead to the network messaging system(s) becoming non-deterministic and unpredictable. Not wise when you are lobbing shells at people, sometimes your own.

The technique I ended up using was a variation of the ZM4 architecture with a TDL/POET/FDL event trace.

As years have gone buy, common clocks are more common (sic).

Simple eh noddy?

Understand?

Probably not eh?

Let's put it this way. I do distributed systems, tomato looks after nuclear power and data mining,
Wiley is head of communications in a very harsh environment,
whereas you can't get the top off your PC.
That puts the debate into perspective somewhat.

You were saying?
> Oh, of course not. You're a fuckin' moron.

Has Gawy snapped your G-string?

Knob-head.

Mark Addinall.

> > Ned

From: ned@no-spam (Ned Latham)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 03:39:08 GMT

Muck Addinall, one of the last surviving specimens of Homo Defectus, wrote in <246279a.0307261909.3458db83@no-spam>:
> "C McKew" wrote:

----snip----

> Can you tell the difference twixt a seti and a typo?

Seems that SETI's been about as effective as SIDH (Search for Intelligence in Homo Defectus).

Ned -- Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu/ http://www.keyserver.net/en/
Fingerprint: D17C FDD5 BBA8 8687 42E3 C8F2 C9FB 0314 E17A 0CD7


From: "Tom Osborn" (xyz@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:03:26 +1000

"Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote in message =
news:slrnbibrba.af1.ned@no-spam > "C McKew" wrote in <szjTa.8978$OM3.5540@no-spam>:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > >
> > > Can you tell an integer from an interval?
> >
> > Naturellement garcons.
>=20
> As I've advised you before, Cate, if you're to understand the goings > on here, you need to get some of act-b's history under your belt.
> That question and the others that were in that paragraph all have > to do with Addinall's history of idiocy.

Seems to me that there are nested goings on in aus.culture.true-blue and aus.politics. Cate seems to have been a fairly astute behaviouralist, =
but not a rigorous historian. Ned's claim is that "whatever it looks like, =
you need to look at the detailed past before you know WTF is really going on". I really don't know why Cate pays so much attention to Neddy,=20
unless she is studying him for some unrevealed purpose.

Googlegroups, and a few hundred spare hours would possible make some sense of the manifest history (ie, news posts, excluding =
no-archives).
However, Neddy's method of inquiry is also falling short. The "true"=20
history is more than just the archived news postings. It probably goes=20
back before 1066 and the Battle of Hastings, possibly before Scipio=20
Africanus, maybe even some conflicts between the Medeans and the Huns...

General observations: Conflicts usually generate grudges which outlive=20
the conflicts and their impetus. The Balkans is a prime example, but so is the retrograde media manipulation emanating from John Winston "Honest John, as long as the day is Sunday" Howard and his tamed reconstructionists. Most football supporters are even beyond this in that after the grand final they can sit down and have a beer with supportes of the other teams.

Meta-observation: Ugly, slimey, reprobate, sociopathic low life scum =
exploit conflicts, grudges and other festering social failings to their own =
advantage.
Examples of this include the Bush manipulators (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz,
etc), but also the ideological right of the Liberal Party (and of the =
Labor Party), and the Socialist Workers Party, JI, and the owners of most of the major media outlets. Media is insipid in its exploitation of popular prejudice in the name of business preservation and shareholder=20
value.

Concrete comment: ACT-B is an attempt to preserve and defend the indefensible, IN THE NAME of preserving some established values in Australian culture which are worthwhile. Some aspects deserve preservation, others require debate and change.=20

But Neddy says that what is really going on requires study of an email archive, because then and only then will you have a legitimate opinion. Don't believe it Cate. Neddy is an epiphenomenon which hasn't noticed its reason d'etre has changed from social commitment=20
to selfish and manipulative delusions.

Tomasso.


From: "Tom Osborn" (xyz@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:51:39 +1000

"Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote in message =
news:slrnbibrba.af1.ned@no-spam > "C McKew" wrote in <szjTa.8978$OM3.5540@no-spam>:
> > Ned Latham wrote:
> > >
> > > Can you tell an integer from an interval?
> >
> > Naturellement garcons.
>=20
> As I've advised you before, Cate, if you're to understand the goings > on here, you need to get some of act-b's history under your belt.
> That question and the others that were in that paragraph all have > to do with Addinall's history of idiocy.

Or put another way... ...from what I KNOW, Cate is not a bimbo,
so she can form her own opinions.

Tomasso.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 01:44:59 -0700

"Tom Osborn" <xyz@no-spam> wrote in message news:<3f27438d$1_1@no-spam>...
> "Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote in message > news:slrnbibrba.af1.ned@no-spam > > "C McKew" wrote in <szjTa.8978$OM3.5540@no-spam>:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can you tell an integer from an interval?
> > >
> > > Naturellement garcons.
> > > > As I've advised you before, Cate, if you're to understand the goings > > on here, you need to get some of act-b's history under your belt.
> > That question and the others that were in that paragraph all have > > to do with Addinall's history of idiocy.
> > Seems to me that there are nested goings on in aus.culture.true-blue and > aus.politics. Cate seems to have been a fairly astute behaviouralist, > but > not a rigorous historian. Ned's claim is that "whatever it looks like, > you > need to look at the detailed past before you know WTF is really going > on". I really don't know why Cate pays so much attention to Neddy, > unless she is studying him for some unrevealed purpose.
> > Googlegroups, and a few hundred spare hours would possible make > some sense of the manifest history (ie, news posts, excluding > no-archives).
> However, Neddy's method of inquiry is also falling short. The "true" > history is more than just the archived news postings. It probably goes > back before 1066 and the Battle of Hastings, possibly before Scipio > Africanus, maybe even some conflicts between the Medeans and the Huns...
> > General observations: Conflicts usually generate grudges which outlive > the conflicts and their impetus. The Balkans is a prime example, but > so is the retrograde media manipulation emanating from John Winston > "Honest John, as long as the day is Sunday" Howard and his tamed > reconstructionists. Most football supporters are even beyond this in > that after the grand final they can sit down and have a beer with > supportes of the other teams.
> > Meta-observation: Ugly, slimey, reprobate, sociopathic low life scum > exploit > conflicts, grudges and other festering social failings to their own > advantage.
> Examples of this include the Bush manipulators (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz,
> etc), but also the ideological right of the Liberal Party (and of the > Labor > Party), and the Socialist Workers Party, JI, and the owners of most > of the major media outlets. Media is insipid in its exploitation of > popular prejudice in the name of business preservation and shareholder > value.
> > Concrete comment: ACT-B is an attempt to preserve and defend the > indefensible, IN THE NAME of preserving some established values > in Australian culture which are worthwhile. Some aspects deserve > preservation, others require debate and change. > > But Neddy says that what is really going on requires study of an > email archive, because then and only then will you have a legitimate > opinion. Don't believe it Cate.
I am sure Cate will make her own mind. Believe everything I have posted in the last decade and a half. Not one word do I dismiss. All under my own name,
and I'm easy to get hold of.

Noddy is a tool. Have you read "Free to Hate"?

Seems the entire world is having a minor fascist blip.
Want me to kill-em-all ?-;

Marky...

> Neddy is an epiphenomenon which > hasn't noticed its reason d'etre has changed from social commitment > to selfish and manipulative delusions.
> > Tomasso.


From: addinall@no-spam (Mark Addinall)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:53:05 -0700

ned@no-spam (Ned Latham) wrote in message news:<slrnbibrca.af1.ned@no-spam>...
> Muck Addinall, one of the last surviving specimens of Homo Defectus, wrote > in <246279a.0307261909.3458db83@no-spam>:
> > "C McKew" wrote:
> > ----snip----
>
It would seem that Apex networks not only likes to host the "bleck"
hating community, but enjoys the publicity.

Here is Noddy pointing out the GOOD things about EP.

---------------
Ned Latham wrote:
<slrn9kgu17.abo.nenosed@no-spam>
Enoch Powell told them thirty years ago. As is always the case when someone points out the holes in their fuzzy pink minds, the PC junkies called him a racist.
-----------------

noddy on "abo" culture...

-------------------------
Crap. They were illiterate. Where's your evidence?

Nope. Have you? Do you really believe that a couple of rocks with a few spletterings of clay on them constitute commumication systems and schools?
----------------------------

noddy on religion.

---------------------
"Muslims are animals"

"They didn't target people outside their cultural groups for abuse and rape.
The evidence is that Muslims are doing exactly that."

---------------------

---------------------
And noddy and his bestest web site.....

And here is a link you were both proposing as a good read for the last two years of your dummy-spit.

http://whiteprideco.freeservers.com/

Peachy.

"The White Pride Coalition Aust. site that you are about to enter may contain items that you are morally against. Some of the images within this site are associated with White Power organisations, such as:
The Nazi Party (WWII) The KKK (America and Australia) Various other low key White Power Groups throughout the world. "

And then we get the usual drivel, but we are not racists, nosirreee cleetus, not us....

"Some of the essays and writings within this site have reference to Race Identity but none are a direct attack against those cultures or individuals within them, nor are they intended to incite any specific acts of violence or harrassment against members of said cultures. This is a site for political ideas and opinions "

All of them distastefull.

"Our Mission is to unite Pro White forces in Australia for the establishment of a BRIDGEHEAD for the fight back campaign against the global Anti-White Conspirators of the United Nations and their New World Order Slaves! "

The spinning loopy eyes were very sad.

-----------------------

"White Pride". What a little wanker you are noddy.

And you wonder why real true-blues, like me,
make fun of you.

. o ,o o o o o o o `-( `|\ )=, `-) `-( '-) '-) '-( /< /< /< /< < \ < \ /< < \
Mark Addinall.

> Ned

From: peter_d_wiley@no-spam (Peter Wiley)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 21:39:18 -0700

"RT" <r.thomas@no-spam> wrote in message news:<bg8l7j$m6129$1@no-spam>...
> Mark Addinall wrote in message > <246279a.0307300044.18a035c9@no-spam>...
> >"Tom Osborn" <xyz@no-spam> wrote in message > news:<3f27438d$1_1@no-spam>...
> >> "Ned Latham" <ned@no-spam> wrote in message > >> news:slrnbibrba.af1.ned@no-spam > >> > "C McKew" wrote in <szjTa.8978$OM3.5540@no-spam>:
> >> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > Jesus - when any one of you attains the grand old age of 16, let me know,
> eh?

Mental or physical?

5 weeks to sailing and I'm outa here. Drop you a line as soon as I find the time - probably in 6 weeks :-)

PDW

From: "C McKew" (cate_mckew@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Reply to Monkypox (long)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 02:21:36 GMT

"Mark Addinall" <addinall@no-spam> wrote:
> <other stuff snipped>
> I am sure Cate will make her own mind.

I am sure you're right. I don't need a hand from anyone. Lately,
my focus has not been on the thoughts from the past of Mark and Ned. Mark seems to have two personalities (an irritated one and an informative one). Neddy seems to have about six (ranging in intellegence, friendliness, informativeness and credibility). Was Ned ever a law student? He seems to try to win arguments by historical minutae and provocation.

But many posts are so long (I've been looking) that I can't be bothered waiting to get to the end.

> Noddy is a tool. Have you read "Free to Hate"?

I don't need a tool from anyone, either. And I haven't read "Free to Hate". Who wrote it?

> Seems the entire world is having a minor fascist blip.
> Want me to kill-em-all ?-;

No. There is always hope. There are always snags trying to hole your stockings. There are always surprises. AND,
I can afford to wait for the truth to come out...

CCCate.