I was wondering how many other community radio stations in Australia charge
presenters for the privilege of being on air. In addition to a $35 annual
membership fee, KCR 102.5FM is now going to charge presenters for $40 every
three months if they wish to be on air. It seems bloody outrageous to me -
by way of example, if I act for an amateur theatre group, I don't pay for
the privilege of performing on stage.
Chris Thomas <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3efe52e2@no-spam
> I was wondering how many other community radio stations in Australia
charge
> presenters for the privilege of being on air. In addition to a $35 annual
> membership fee, KCR 102.5FM is now going to charge presenters for $40
every
> three months if they wish to be on air. It seems bloody outrageous to me -
> by way of example, if I act for an amateur theatre group, I don't pay for
> the privilege of performing on stage.
2RDJ 88.1 is another one, $5 for each hour of the show.
Some stations accept payments from religious groups and other organisations
for program access time and use these funds to finance the day to day
operation of the station.
My station charges a levy of $32 per quarter but offers a reduced rate to
any member who demonstrates that payment of the full amount would cause them
financial hardship. The money received from presenters still does not cover
the running costs of the station.
My son plays for the local football club; he has to pay an annual fee to
cover insurance and general running costs. Other costs such as his mouth
guard, shorts, socks, etc., are also his responsibility.
Paul in Melbourne
"The Fella" <cs1dzv702@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3efe9704$0$24424$afc38c87@no-spam
> This is a pretty standard arangement for most stations. The cost is used
to
> pay for the essentials like tea, coffee, etc. Unless a station has a huge
> amount of sponsorship, it's a simple way to make ends meet.
>
> If you don't want to pay this, then I suggest doing a deal with the
> station... perhaps selling some sponsorship and using the commission to
pay
> for your airtime. I sold a three month contract and got my on-air fees
> wiped for the next six months.
>
>
> "Chris Thomas" <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3efe52e2@no-spam
> > I was wondering how many other community radio stations in Australia
> charge
> > presenters for the privilege of being on air. In addition to a $35
annual
> > membership fee, KCR 102.5FM is now going to charge presenters for $40
> every
> > three months if they wish to be on air. It seems bloody outrageous to
me -
> > by way of example, if I act for an amateur theatre group, I don't pay
for
> > the privilege of performing on stage.
> >
> >
>
>
I don't mind paying an annual fee; and, like your son, there are my own
costs involved - buy minidisks, headphones etc. But they don't actually
charge him for the privilege of playing the game, do they? That's what I'm
getting at here.
"Paul in Melbourne" <pn1@no-spam> wrote in message
news:kbxLa.505$mq3.7103@no-spam
> Some stations accept payments from religious groups and other
organisations
> for program access time and use these funds to finance the day to day
> operation of the station.
> My station charges a levy of $32 per quarter but offers a reduced rate to
> any member who demonstrates that payment of the full amount would cause
them
> financial hardship. The money received from presenters still does not
cover
> the running costs of the station.
> My son plays for the local football club; he has to pay an annual fee to
> cover insurance and general running costs. Other costs such as his mouth
> guard, shorts, socks, etc., are also his responsibility.
> Paul in Melbourne
>
> "The Fella" <cs1dzv702@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3efe9704$0$24424$afc38c87@no-spam
> > This is a pretty standard arangement for most stations. The cost is
used
> to
> > pay for the essentials like tea, coffee, etc. Unless a station has a
huge
> > amount of sponsorship, it's a simple way to make ends meet.
> >
> > If you don't want to pay this, then I suggest doing a deal with the
> > station... perhaps selling some sponsorship and using the commission to
> pay
> > for your airtime. I sold a three month contract and got my on-air fees
> > wiped for the next six months.
> >
> >
> > "Chris Thomas" <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:3efe52e2@no-spam
> > > I was wondering how many other community radio stations in Australia
> > charge
> > > presenters for the privilege of being on air. In addition to a $35
> annual
> > > membership fee, KCR 102.5FM is now going to charge presenters for $40
> > every
> > > three months if they wish to be on air. It seems bloody outrageous to
> me -
> > > by way of example, if I act for an amateur theatre group, I don't pay
> for
> > > the privilege of performing on stage.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Yes Peter I agree.
There are people in community radio who sincerely believe that stations
should by run by "community spirit".
But I am still "in the dark" as to how "community spirit" pays the bills and
costs of running the station.
Can anyone on this list enlighten me?
Paul in Melbourne
"Peter Tate" <stationx@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3eff0414_1@no-spam
> It is a fact that "radio" cost money to run!
> No matter what animal it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> May be we stop community radio all together and call it "public access
> radio"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where you pay for the air time! Just like you do for
> your phone bill etc etc!
>
> Deserves a bit of thought then to some of these station's constitutions if
> this is the main form of income for the station. A re-wording could be in
> order the word "volunteer" becomes some what incorrect then doesn't it?
>
>
Community stations are allowed to sell sponsorship messages - and can set
their own rates for this.
"Paul in Melbourne" <pn1@no-spam> wrote in message
news:TsHLa.3$VH3.322@no-spam
> Yes Peter I agree.
> There are people in community radio who sincerely believe that stations
> should by run by "community spirit".
> But I am still "in the dark" as to how "community spirit" pays the bills
and
> costs of running the station.
> Can anyone on this list enlighten me?
> Paul in Melbourne
>
> "Peter Tate" <stationx@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3eff0414_1@no-spam
> > It is a fact that "radio" cost money to run!
> > No matter what animal it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > May be we stop community radio all together and call it "public access
> > radio"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where you pay for the air time! Just like you do for
> > your phone bill etc etc!
> >
> > Deserves a bit of thought then to some of these station's constitutions
if
> > this is the main form of income for the station. A re-wording could be
in
> > order the word "volunteer" becomes some what incorrect then doesn't it?
> >
> >
>
>
I'm with you Chris.
I don't think people should have to pay for the privilege of giving up their
own time to help out.
I think it should work the opposite way, similar to our local Volunteer
Marine Rescue organisation.
You pay an annual membership fee, say (round figures), $200 per year.
Your fee's are then reduced by $1 for each day that you help out.
If you present 1 program per week then your fee's are reduced by $52.
If you present 2 per week it's reduced by $104.
I know it is a lot more logistical than that but it's an idea.
--
Garry Beattie
Ocean Spirit Trailer Sailer &
Small Yacht Cruising Emagazine
www.ocean-spirit.com
"Chris Thomas" <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3efeb2d4@no-spam
> I don't mind paying an annual fee; and, like your son, there are my own
> costs involved - buy minidisks, headphones etc. But they don't actually
> charge him for the privilege of playing the game, do they? That's what I'm
> getting at here.
>
>
> "Paul in Melbourne" <pn1@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:kbxLa.505$mq3.7103@no-spam
> > Some stations accept payments from religious groups and other
> organisations
> > for program access time and use these funds to finance the day to day
> > operation of the station.
> > My station charges a levy of $32 per quarter but offers a reduced rate
to
> > any member who demonstrates that payment of the full amount would cause
> them
> > financial hardship. The money received from presenters still does not
> cover
> > the running costs of the station.
> > My son plays for the local football club; he has to pay an annual fee to
> > cover insurance and general running costs. Other costs such as his mouth
> > guard, shorts, socks, etc., are also his responsibility.
> > Paul in Melbourne
> >
> > "The Fella" <cs1dzv702@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:3efe9704$0$24424$afc38c87@no-spam
> > > This is a pretty standard arangement for most stations. The cost is
> used
> > to
> > > pay for the essentials like tea, coffee, etc. Unless a station has a
> huge
> > > amount of sponsorship, it's a simple way to make ends meet.
> > >
> > > If you don't want to pay this, then I suggest doing a deal with the
> > > station... perhaps selling some sponsorship and using the commission
to
> > pay
> > > for your airtime. I sold a three month contract and got my on-air
fees
> > > wiped for the next six months.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Chris Thomas" <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
> > > news:3efe52e2@no-spam
> > > > I was wondering how many other community radio stations in Australia
> > > charge
> > > > presenters for the privilege of being on air. In addition to a $35
> > annual
> > > > membership fee, KCR 102.5FM is now going to charge presenters for
$40
> > > every
> > > > three months if they wish to be on air. It seems bloody outrageous
to
> > me -
> > > > by way of example, if I act for an amateur theatre group, I don't
pay
> > for
> > > > the privilege of performing on stage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
No heritage FM doesnt charge, apart from its membership fee
--
"Chris Thomas" <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3efe90c7@no-spam
> Just out of interest: does Heritage FM charge presenters to be on air?
>
>
>
>
> "DAN" <djdan@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3efe8a82$0$22138@no-spam
> > Being an EX community radio person. at Heritage FM (well really im still
> > there doing there RCS music log). I personally think it may be a good
> idea.
> > I mean are you going to miss an on air shift if you had to pay for it?
> Maybe
> > the price is a bit high. maybe they should reverse the way they look at
it
> > so that if you dont turn up for a on air shift then you get charged..
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > "Chris Thomas" <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:3efe52e2@no-spam
> > > I was wondering how many other community radio stations in Australia
> > charge
> > > presenters for the privilege of being on air. In addition to a $35
> annual
> > > membership fee, KCR 102.5FM is now going to charge presenters for $40
> > every
> > > three months if they wish to be on air. It seems bloody outrageous to
> me -
> > > by way of example, if I act for an amateur theatre group, I don't pay
> for
> > > the privilege of performing on stage.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
What about volunteers that don't actually have a program? Should they
be made to pay the same?
I know it is all about being a member of the organisation, but Bert
helps out and does production for a station, and would sometimes spend
10 - 20 hours a week in the production studio.
He is asked then to pay to be a member.
That is where the reduction in fees for work completed system should
be introduced.
"Garry Beattie" <gjbeattie@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3f00eb25@no-spam
: OK, Fair comments but let's throw in a scenario. This scenario I have seen
: quite a bit.
:
: A young guy or girl, Either still in or just fresh out of high school.
: Dreams of being a radio announcer just like the people they listen to
: everyday when they wake up in the morning.
:
: Their parents are single income earners. In other words they are
struggling
: just to make ends meet. They can't afford a couple of thousand dollars to
: send the teenager off to radio school. Heck they can't even afford $10 to
: treat the kids to a pizza each week.
:
: The teenager contacts the local commercial radio station, but is told
: "Sorry, we only do 1 on air shift from here and the rest come from a 'hub'
: 1,000kms away. We don't take trainees anymore!"
:
: The teenager then contacts the community station. "Sure we have shifts
: available here which you can do and someone might be able to give you some
: advice too, but it will cost you $45 per year and $5 per hour for each
hour
: you are on air. The shifts are 4 hours each and so it will cost you $20
per
: week."
:
: The teenager doesn't have the $20 per week required. They ask mum and dad
: but they say "Sorry, but we simply can't afford it."
:
: What does the teenager do? Give up on their dream?
<snip>
Nope. Become an escort. Work flat out, becoming so good
working your way up the (ahem) pecking order of invariably,
over time, some rich and influential people, who in turn
become not only great contacts but benefactors who help
build your wealth.
When you have enough after say, 10~12 years, buy your
own station if you still have the desire.
I mean, if you do get in somewhere, you're gonna work
10-12 hours per day, maybe 7 days a week for what, $25k?!,
and quite possibly have status only one rung above the
cleaner.
Either way, you're gonna get screwed. May as well be on
your terms.
Welcome to radio.
arfur
2RDJ has one of those fellows, been there since the station started almost
and as soon as programming or management decide to move this persons slot or
something like that the announcer starts throwing weight around (nearly
everyone likes this person! and also contributes a hefty amount of
sponsorship - at least when I was still there!) so the committees just seem
to let the announcer keep the slot and everything was vanilla.
Allain
Hey Cableguy.. is our friend still there?.. you kow the one, did the same
timslot as your '95 show, just a day earlier?
"Paul in Melbourne" <pn1@no-spam> wrote in message
news:l60Ma.3$w14.393@no-spam
> Given that some stations might charge volunteers for the privilege of
> presenting a program, what strategies might be in place to handle members
> who still want time on air but refuse to pay the fee?
> Paul in Melbourne
>
> "Richard Jary" <jary@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F002D07.68263818@no-spam
> >
> >
> > "hallaow!" wrote:
> > >
> > > Instead of charging the announcer or volunteer to keep a station going
> > > (because without any volunteers - the station has no money, thus
> defeating
> > > the purpose of having community radio) why don't the stations make the
> > > announcers or program makers supply their own sponsors (always inline
> with
> > > the stations codes).
> >
> > I did community radio for a while and ended up having my show moved
> > around a lot because the Arabic shows could get more money. Reality I
> > guess, a bit disappointing but I was probably ready to give it away in
> > any case. Strange for a station sponsored by the local Baptist Church
> > :-)
> >
> > Richard
>
>
fair enough, but with out nameing which station... when your told to fork
out $4000 a month from sponsorships for your show, that's taking things a
bit to far.
"hallaow!" <hallaow@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3f00013c_1@no-spam
> Instead of charging the announcer or volunteer to keep a station going
> (because without any volunteers - the station has no money, thus defeating
> the purpose of having community radio) why don't the stations make the
> announcers or program makers supply their own sponsors (always inline with
> the stations codes).
>
> The programmers can then pick which sponsors they want on their show
(apart
> from sponsors that shell out the cash for sponsorship announcements
> throughout the day or news etc) and the stations get the money to keep
> running. no sponsor - no show simple!
> Allain
>
>
> "Chris Thomas" <cthomas@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3eff649a@no-spam
> > Community stations are allowed to sell sponsorship messages - and can
set
> > their own rates for this.
> >
> >
> > "Paul in Melbourne" <pn1@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:TsHLa.3$VH3.322@no-spam
> > > Yes Peter I agree.
> > > There are people in community radio who sincerely believe that
stations
> > > should by run by "community spirit".
> > > But I am still "in the dark" as to how "community spirit" pays the
bills
> > and
> > > costs of running the station.
> > > Can anyone on this list enlighten me?
> > > Paul in Melbourne
> > >
> > > "Peter Tate" <stationx@no-spam> wrote in message
> > > news:3eff0414_1@no-spam
> > > > It is a fact that "radio" cost money to run!
> > > > No matter what animal it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > May be we stop community radio all together and call it "public
access
> > > > radio"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where you pay for the air time! Just like you do
> for
> > > > your phone bill etc etc!
> > > >
> > > > Deserves a bit of thought then to some of these station's
> constitutions
> > if
> > > > this is the main form of income for the station. A re-wording could
be
> > in
> > > > order the word "volunteer" becomes some what incorrect then doesn't
> it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
I take my hat off to you Garry, if only there was (a) more people that can
see the world from a realistic point of view, not just as a money making
exercise AND (b) more stations that thought like you, not just community but
the ones that will inevitably only employ people that don't need the money
and just do it for the ego trip or it will boil down to a handful of people
that do their show from a hub.
Allain
"Garry Beattie" <gjbeattie@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3f00eb25@no-spam
> OK, Fair comments but let's throw in a scenario. This scenario I have seen
> quite a bit.
>
> A young guy or girl, Either still in or just fresh out of high school.
> Dreams of being a radio announcer just like the people they listen to
> everyday when they wake up in the morning.
>
> Their parents are single income earners. In other words they are
struggling
> just to make ends meet. They can't afford a couple of thousand dollars to
> send the teenager off to radio school. Heck they can't even afford $10 to
> treat the kids to a pizza each week.
>
> The teenager contacts the local commercial radio station, but is told
> "Sorry, we only do 1 on air shift from here and the rest come from a 'hub'
> 1,000kms away. We don't take trainees anymore!"
>
> The teenager then contacts the community station. "Sure we have shifts
> available here which you can do and someone might be able to give you some
> advice too, but it will cost you $45 per year and $5 per hour for each
hour
> you are on air. The shifts are 4 hours each and so it will cost you $20
per
> week."
>
> The teenager doesn't have the $20 per week required. They ask mum and dad
> but they say "Sorry, but we simply can't afford it."
>
> What does the teenager do? Give up on their dream?
>
> $20 may not sound like much to a lot of us, but to others it may as well
be
> $1,000.
>
> If, on the other hand, the fee's were $200 per year, reducible $1 for each
> day they help out (and this isn't just on air but it may be answering the
> phones, producing commercials, filing records etc) then the teenager is
> faced with another choice.
>
> They can work 4 days per week volunteering at the radio station, perhaps
> pulling 1 or 2 shifts, the rest helping in the office, filing records,
> helping to find new sponsors etc, and it will cost them nothing.
>
> If they are genuine in their dream of getting into radio they will put the
> hours in without any hesitation. If they are just radio wannabe's looking
> for a quick way in to feed their ego then they will drop off very quickly.
> If they are, as you say, bludgers, social misfits, druggo's etc, then they
> will not even want to put the effort in and will not be able to afford the
> $200 annual membership.
>
> Just my thoughts on it.
>
> --
> Garry Beattie
>
>
Before I start I would like to say some community stations have it
together and I am sure all volunteers are working hard to do the best
they can, however most community stations have no idea, instead of
charging volunteers why don't they just put together programmes that
people want to listen to, then they would be able to sell sponsorship,
yep sure sure all the community radio people out there now are saying
but people do listen, yes its mostly there friends listening, Sounds a
bit harsh but unfortunately true (unless you have had your spot for a
long while and produce quality product) people don't listen to radio
in the same way as they watch T.V.
Very few people radial tune radio, sure there are plenty of flickers
but the choice out there now is big and about to get bigger (not
enough room on presets) so what's the chances that some one will
actually press scan to find a station rather than their presents?
The answer my friends is to put together shows that attract listeners
and then sell sponsorship eg one format from 6am to 6pm then let
whoever at the control's to play their favourite music to nobody.
Too simple really.
And what is it with the dinosaurs that run community radio are they
scared of computers, there great especially for production, instead of
playing a music bed underneath the V/O then fade down and to top it
off mixed down on the old Revox, now that does sound
GREEEEEEAAAAAAT!!!!! And whilst i am on the subject, if you're going
to sell sponsorship out source some decent voices and copy writers.
All community radio stations are sitting on a great asset but very few
know how to use it.
That is why they have to charge their volunteers.
macca <austereo@no-spam> wrote in message
news:9e35042e.0307222045.39dd25ec@no-spam
> off mixed down on the old Revox, now that does sound
Hang on! 1/4" 15ips sounds bloody good to my ears!
>It also weeds out the unemployed, the druggies, losers, social
>retards, and other non-acceptables. Well, at least this is the idea
behind
>many of the ridiculously high announcer fees being charged at some
>community stations.
Only poorly run community radio stations need to charge it volunteers
for the airtime. For example from what I have heard from the $5 an
hour 2RDJ, they only recently started charging for airtime, with
little or no discussion with the presenters or the membership and
appears a last ditched attempt to avoid going broke.
Quite frankly, it should be avoided at all cost. Community Radio is
for ALL of the Community, including the unemployed, the druggies,
losers, social retards and other non-acceptables. If any station uses
that as an excuse to charge volunteers for airtime, they would be
breaching the CBAA Codes of Practice and in my opinion should lose
their licence.
Community Radio needs to realise it is everyone’s station, and I
have seen many people turned away from Community Radio by control
freaks who place value judgements on people applying for membership or
control the station airtime and effectively restrict any new
presenters coming on to the station, otherwise their precious two
hours of poorly produced fame would be displaced.
For those stations that think charging presenter's is a great idea. I
think their management committees, should be voted off and replaced
with people who will do something to better the station funding. I.E
lobby government (local, state and federal), approach business for
sponsorship and even consider giving grants to presenters to ensure
they can produce better programs. Then when the programs have
facilities and money for program production, then the programs sound
better, then they have more listeners and can charge more for the
sponsorship of the station, ect. ect.
The other benefit of having members is that for every member you have
being an active member of the station, will tell at least another 10
– 20 people about it’s existence (thus free publicity)!
You never know, they may know someone who might become a future
sponsor and thus generate revenue for the station!!
Our station does not allow any person under the influence of an illegal
substance to present a program.
Illegal substances are not allowed on station premises.
However, what presenters do in their own time is their personal business.
Paul in Melbourne
"Glen Burns" <glen@no-spam> wrote in message
news:26a41245.0307282221.39e36a68@no-spam
> >It also weeds out the unemployed, the druggies, losers, social
> >retards, and other non-acceptables. Well, at least this is the idea
> behind
> >many of the ridiculously high announcer fees being charged at some
> >community stations.
>
> Only poorly run community radio stations need to charge it volunteers
> for the airtime. For example from what I have heard from the $5 an
> hour 2RDJ, they only recently started charging for airtime, with
> little or no discussion with the presenters or the membership and
> appears a last ditched attempt to avoid going broke.
>
> Quite frankly, it should be avoided at all cost. Community Radio is
> for ALL of the Community, including the unemployed, the druggies,
> losers, social retards and other non-acceptables. If any station uses
> that as an excuse to charge volunteers for airtime, they would be
> breaching the CBAA Codes of Practice and in my opinion should lose
> their licence.
>
> Community Radio needs to realise it is everyone’s station, and I
> have seen many people turned away from Community Radio by control
> freaks who place value judgements on people applying for membership or
> control the station airtime and effectively restrict any new
> presenters coming on to the station, otherwise their precious two
> hours of poorly produced fame would be displaced.
>
> For those stations that think charging presenter's is a great idea. I
> think their management committees, should be voted off and replaced
> with people who will do something to better the station funding. I.E
> lobby government (local, state and federal), approach business for
> sponsorship and even consider giving grants to presenters to ensure
> they can produce better programs. Then when the programs have
> facilities and money for program production, then the programs sound
> better, then they have more listeners and can charge more for the
> sponsorship of the station, ect. ect.
>
> The other benefit of having members is that for every member you have
> being an active member of the station, will tell at least another 10
> – 20 people about it’s existence (thus free publicity)!
> You never know, they may know someone who might become a future
> sponsor and thus generate revenue for the station!!
> Our station does not allow any person under the influence of an illegal
> substance to present a program.
> Illegal substances are not allowed on station premises.
> However, what presenters do in their own time is their personal business.
> Paul in Melbourne
I think you will find a clause in the ABA rule book that basically states if
a person presents a program whilst intoxicated or under the influence of an
illegal substance, the radio station stands the chance of losing it's
licence.
Garry
"Garry Beattie" <gjbeattie@no-spam> wrote in message news:<3f267e91@no-spam>...
> > Our station does not allow any person under the influence of an illegal
> > substance to present a program.
> > Illegal substances are not allowed on station premises.
> > However, what presenters do in their own time is their personal business.
> > Paul in Melbourne
>
> I think you will find a clause in the ABA rule book that basically states if
> a person presents a program whilst intoxicated or under the influence of an
> illegal substance, the radio station stands the chance of losing it's
> licence.
>
> Garry
I am not suggesting it is okay for people to pratice those things at a
Community Station or be under the influence of them while presenting a
program, that is clearly unprofessional and doesn't benfit anyone.
Stations have to ensure that the presenters can comply with the
regulations and codes of pratice, which would be difficult if someone
is under the influence. They can make up rules, but that is different
to denying access through a charge to deter people they don't like,
that can make them just as much risk to lose their licence.
Though I doubt the ABA has a speific rule, as it is self-regulation,
though if something went wrong and the person responsable was under
the influence of something, their would be blame attubuited to the
station. The station would get a slap on the wrist. Lose your
licence??? You must be joking, repeat offenders don`t even get that,
the ABA is very weak in that regard.