Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
No...if you are a Christian.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 26 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
> Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
>
> No...if you are a Christian.
Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?
--
Midwinter
"Midwinter" <midw688@no-spam> wrote in message
news:bdfum5$ol8$2@no-spam
> On 26 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
>
> > Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
> >
> > No...if you are a Christian.
>
> Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
> suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?
>
> --
> Midwinter
You have only ever known the former, and they set the agenda for what
you believe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 27 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
>> Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are
>> you suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free
>> of sin?
>>
> You have only ever known the former, and they set the agenda for what
> you believe.
Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of me?
That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?
--
Midwinter
"Midwinter" <midw688@no-spam> wrote in message
news:bdh4il$cpi$1@no-spam
> On 27 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
>
> >> Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are
> >> you suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free
> >> of sin?
> >>
> > You have only ever known the former, and they set the agenda for what
> > you believe.
>
>
> Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of me?
>
> That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?
>
> --
> Midwinter
No, to both. :-).
"Midwinter" <midw688@no-spam> wrote in message
news:bdijat$nmk$3@no-spam
> On 27 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
>
> >> Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of
> >> me?
> >>
> >> That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?
> >
> > No, to both. :-).
>
Midwinter wrote:
> Yet you still do not address the question.
> This is a rather important philosophical point you have raised, Michael.
> The Christian God is a forgiving God. So says Christianity. Those who
> fall from His path will be forgiven if they repent of their sins. The
> path to God is a hard one, and mistakes will be made by those who walk
> it.
> But you are saying here that TRUE Christians DO NOT SIN. Does that mean
> that once a sinner, never again a Christian? Or is God still entitled to
> forgive those who have sinned but repent? In that case, the statement
> that Christians do not sin is inaccurate. But if it IS accurate, then it
> means that any example of sin demonstrates that the sinner is not, never
> has been, and never can be saved.
>
> You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me to
> answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
When you assert 'you say', quote me.
I dislike being told what I say. That aside. :-).
Your assertions are made based of the requirement of man and not on
the requirement of God, and you have summarised from that as though it
is the perfect truth.
God is a forgiving God.
You have a choice in life.
Hand over your life completely to Him, or don't.
There is no in-between.
If you do, you are given a new life.
If you do not, you retain the old.
The new life is in and of Him. The old life is in and of the world. Liars,
deceivers, charlatans, religious not-nice people et.al, try to blend the two
together.
There is one true Vine, and the branch thereof is pure.
Whatever is pure is pure.
Whatever is impure is impure.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 28 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
> When you assert 'you say', quote me.
>
> I dislike being told what I say. That aside. :-).
I will quote you when I am quoting you. Otherwise, I will summarise what
I think you were saying - that does not entitle me to quote you. If you
disagree with my summary than explain why.
> Your assertions are made based of the requirement of man and not on
> the requirement of God, and you have summarised from that as though it
> is the perfect truth.
I have summarised from what you said. If you wish a direct quote, here
it is (bearing in mind the subject line "Do Christians Sin..."):
"Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
No...if you are a Christian."
So, if I have summarised incorrectly then tell me why. If not, then the
requirement is yours. Are you suggesting that I should not take what you
say as perfect truth?
> God is a forgiving God.
> You have a choice in life.
> Hand over your life completely to Him, or don't.
> There is no in-between.
> If you do, you are given a new life.
> If you do not, you retain the old.
Yes, this is a common theme of Christian teaching. It is the Christian
basis for their initiation ceremony of baptism. But...
> The new life is in and of Him. The old life is in and of the world.
> Liars, deceivers, charlatans, religious not-nice people et.al, try to
> blend the two together.
> There is one true Vine, and the branch thereof is pure.
...Christianity can be accepted at any time in life. Those children born
to Christian parents are likely to be baptised at an early age.
Sometimes adults undergo baptism as part of a re-dedication, or if they
come to Christianity later in life. The point is that there is usually
quite a great deal of life left for them to live. So I ask again: are
you saying that a Christian DOES NOT SIN throughout that dedicated life?
In which case anyone who DOES commit a transgression is not truly
Christian. Or is a Christian capable of sin but also able to benefit
from God's forgiving nature IF they truly repent of what they have done?
> Whatever is pure is pure.
>
> Whatever is impure is impure.
Whatever is complex is complex. Whatever is green is green. Whatever is
an octopus is an octopus. Whatever is cheese is cheese.
--
Midwinter
"Midwinter" <midw688@no-spam> wrote in message
news:bdjr0r$i84$5@no-spam
> On 28 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
>
> > When you assert 'you say', quote me.
> >
> > I dislike being told what I say. That aside. :-).
>
> I will quote you when I am quoting you. Otherwise, I will summarise what
> I think you were saying - that does not entitle me to quote you. If you
> disagree with my summary than explain why.
>
>
> > Your assertions are made based of the requirement of man and not on
> > the requirement of God, and you have summarised from that as though it
> > is the perfect truth.
>
> I have summarised from what you said. If you wish a direct quote, here
> it is (bearing in mind the subject line "Do Christians Sin..."):
>
> "Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
>
> No...if you are a Christian."
>
> So, if I have summarised incorrectly then tell me why. If not, then the
> requirement is yours. Are you suggesting that I should not take what you
> say as perfect truth?
>
>
> > God is a forgiving God.
> > You have a choice in life.
> > Hand over your life completely to Him, or don't.
> > There is no in-between.
> > If you do, you are given a new life.
> > If you do not, you retain the old.
>
> Yes, this is a common theme of Christian teaching. It is the Christian
> basis for their initiation ceremony of baptism. But...
>
>
> > The new life is in and of Him. The old life is in and of the world.
> > Liars, deceivers, charlatans, religious not-nice people et.al, try to
> > blend the two together.
> > There is one true Vine, and the branch thereof is pure.
>
> ...Christianity can be accepted at any time in life. Those children born
> to Christian parents are likely to be baptised at an early age.
> Sometimes adults undergo baptism as part of a re-dedication, or if they
> come to Christianity later in life. The point is that there is usually
> quite a great deal of life left for them to live. So I ask again: are
> you saying that a Christian DOES NOT SIN throughout that dedicated life?
> In which case anyone who DOES commit a transgression is not truly
> Christian. Or is a Christian capable of sin but also able to benefit
> from God's forgiving nature IF they truly repent of what they have done?
>
>
> > Whatever is pure is pure.
> >
> > Whatever is impure is impure.
>
> Whatever is complex is complex. Whatever is green is green. Whatever is
> an octopus is an octopus. Whatever is cheese is cheese.
Unless they evolve I suppose (note sarcasm!)
Back to "do Christians sin?" One who is regenerate does not seek out
opportunities to sin, they may unintentionally commit sin; they resist sin
rather than embraces it. Any dead fish can float downstream. It takes a live
one to swim against the flow. Christians still experience temptations and
can sometimes fall into sin, but they are no longer slaves to sin (Romans
6:6). They have God's Holy Spirit within them to help them say no to
temptation, and to convict their conscience of wrongdoing if they do sin. If
we heeded God's advice in James.
James 4:7-8 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from
you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you
sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Sin wouldn't be an issue for believers.
There is no way that you can be a liar, thief, adulterer, paedophile,
fornicator or a homosexual etc. and a follower of Jesus Christ, such a
person is deluded if they think that they are saved, they are double minded.
Where are you planning to spend eternity? Heaven or hell they're your
choices.
Are you saved?
The answer to that question is found in repentance, and the way to know if
you need to repent is to look at the Ten Commandments: they show us how far
we fall short: Is God first in your life? Do you love Him with "heart, mind,
soul and strength?" Have you made a god to suit yourself? Have you used His
name in vain? Have you kept the Sabbath holy? Have you always honoured your
parents? Have you hated anyone, and therefore committed murder in your
heart? Have you looked with lust and therefore committed adultery in your
heart? Have you lied (including "fibs"), stolen (the value is irrelevant),
or coveted other people's possessions? If you are honest, you know you will
be guilty on the Day of Judgement, and spend eternity in hell.
That's not God's will. He has provided a way for you to be forgiven, but you
must obey Him before you die. God sent His Son to take your punishment: "God
commended His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ
died for us." He was bruised for our iniquities. Jesus then rose from the
dead and defeated death.
Therefore repent and be forgiven while you still have breath in your lungs,
for the Spirit of God shall not strive with man forever.. flee the wrath
that is to come.
regards Michael
Midwinter wrote:
> You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me to
> answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
Michael Christ wrote:
> > When you assert 'you say', quote me.
> > I dislike being told what I say.
Midwinter wrote:
> I will quote you when I am quoting you. Otherwise, I will summarise what
> I think you were saying
If you weren't so self-centred you would accept that what I ask as
only right.
Midwinter wrote:
> You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me to
> answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
I never said such a thing.
If you assert 'you say', quote me. Or be on your way.
Or, I will give you yet another way, a perfect way...apologise.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Michael Gaskell" done wrooted:
> Back to "do Christians sin?"
Ask Jim and Tammy Baker, Oral Roberts, Jim Jones, etc etc etc
> Are you saved?
From pente ratbags, YES!
> Do you love Him with "heart, mind,soul and strength?"
You need to edit that. It implies that pentes need to use their MIND.
Thinking is a sin!!!!
> .. flee the wrath that is to come.
Don't THINK about it. Just chant the Pente Mantra and go back to sleep:
"Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus,
Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the
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the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God!
Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise
the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God!
Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! "
.... that should be enough times to make you spirirtual .... yawn .........
"Mark and Bev Tindall" <m_b_tindall@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3efe1dbc@no-spam
> "Michael Gaskell" done wrooted:
>
> > Back to "do Christians sin?"
>
>
> Ask Jim and Tammy Baker, Oral Roberts, Jim Jones, etc etc etc
>
>
> > Are you saved?
>
>
> From pente ratbags, YES!
>
>
> > Do you love Him with "heart, mind,soul and strength?"
>
>
> You need to edit that. It implies that pentes need to use their MIND.
> Thinking is a sin!!!!
>
>
> > .. flee the wrath that is to come.
>
>
> Don't THINK about it. Just chant the Pente Mantra and go back to sleep:
>
> "Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
Jesus,
> Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the
> Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah!
Praise
> the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna
> cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to
God!
> Bless the Lord! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do!
> Amen! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! Glory to God! Bless the Lord! Jesus,
> Jesus, Jesus! Polly wanna cracker! Yabba-dabba-do! Amen! "
>
> .... that should be enough times to make you spirirtual .... yawn
.........
Hahahahahahahahaha....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 28 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
> I never said such a thing.
>
> If you assert 'you say', quote me. Or be on your way.
>
> Or, I will give you yet another way, a perfect way...apologise.
You make me laugh, Michael-Who-Wants-To-Be-Christ.
I was optimistic to think you may have changed. You are what you have
always been. You post to the groups intending only to be listened TO,
not to listen. You speak, others hear - that is the way it is in your
mind, where you are Christ and we must worship you.
And when you ARE asked a question - in perfectly good faith, as here -
you give evasive answers, and 'smartarse' answers, if readers will excuse
the vernacular. Where you need a way out, you twist and you squirm as
you have here. You want quotes? Here are quotes. You were asked "Are
you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of me?"
You replied "no". Now you say you ARE unable to answer the question
because you dislike me. I suspect this was always the case. You operate
entirely on a personal level, and cannot leave it behind.
You are a weak messiah, Michael. And as for apologies... You must be
out of your mind. It is YOU who should be apologising, Michael. You
should be apologising for taking Christ's name as your own when you are
so clearly unable to follow his act.
--
Midwinter
"Midwinter" <midw688@no-spam> wrote in message
news:bdfum5$ol8$2@no-spam
> Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
> suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?
>
NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all that
He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God considers sin
and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And when you OBEY all
of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them by experiencing them
daily in your life, you
then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it is to
God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of sin, above
ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER you have sought
all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve being ONE with Christ,
nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin, which does NOT abide with the
Son.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
ever.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:2-10
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the
transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no
sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
his brother.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in
heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work INIQUITY (SIN).
(KJV)
Luke 6:46-49
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and DO not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and DOETH them, I will
shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the
foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently
upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a
foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat
vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
1 Cor 1:8
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the
day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)
2 Pet 3:14
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that
ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
(KJV)
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Midwinter" <midw688@no-spam> wrote in message
news:bdfum5$ol8$2@no-spam
> On 26 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
>
> > Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
> >
> > No...if you are a Christian.
>
> Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
> suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?
>
> --
> Midwinter
You weren't adopted into God's family ?
On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 01:02:38 +0000 (UTC), Midwinter
<midw688@no-spam> wrote:
>On 28 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
>
>> I never said such a thing.
>>
>> If you assert 'you say', quote me. Or be on your way.
>>
>> Or, I will give you yet another way, a perfect way...apologise.
>
>
>You make me laugh, Michael-Who-Wants-To-Be-Christ.
>
>I was optimistic to think you may have changed. You are what you have
>always been. You post to the groups intending only to be listened TO,
>not to listen. You speak, others hear - that is the way it is in your
>mind, where you are Christ and we must worship you.
>
>And when you ARE asked a question - in perfectly good faith, as here -
>you give evasive answers, and 'smartarse' answers, if readers will excuse
>the vernacular. Where you need a way out, you twist and you squirm as
>you have here. You want quotes? Here are quotes. You were asked "Are
>you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of me?"
>You replied "no". Now you say you ARE unable to answer the question
>because you dislike me. I suspect this was always the case. You operate
>entirely on a personal level, and cannot leave it behind.
>
>You are a weak messiah, Michael. And as for apologies... You must be
>out of your mind. It is YOU who should be apologising, Michael. You
>should be apologising for taking Christ's name as your own when you are
>so clearly unable to follow his act.
>
>--
>Midwinter
Midwinter wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
>
> > NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all
> > that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
> > considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And
> > when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them
> > by experiencing them daily in your life, you
> > then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
> > itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it
> > is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of
> > sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER
> > you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve
> > being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
> > which does NOT abide with the Son.
>
> You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as Dore
> has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up in my
> estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least act
> like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because you
> are not what you think you are.
>
> Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your taking
> the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a fairly
> important one for the consideration of those who do.
>
> --
> Midwinter
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
"Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3F01175F.8EBD6B37@no-spam
>
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>
> > Midwinter wrote:
> > > You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me
to
> > > answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
> >
> > Michael Christ wrote:
> > > > When you assert 'you say', quote me.
> >
> > > > I dislike being told what I say.
> >
> > Midwinter wrote:
> > > I will quote you when I am quoting you. Otherwise, I will summarise
what
> > > I think you were saying
> >
> > If you weren't so self-centred you would accept that what I ask as
> > only right.
> >
> > Midwinter wrote:
> > > You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me
to
> > > answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
> >
> > I never said such a thing.
>
> > Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of
me?
> >
> > That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?
> >
> > --
> > Midwinter
>
> No, to both. :-).
>
> Yes, you *did* Michael, and it appears, you are in the wrong here. Are
you man
> enough to apologize, or rather, Christian enough to admit that you have
wronged
> someone, as commanded by Christ, Himself?
Then produce the quote, Rick.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> >
> >
> > If you assert 'you say', quote me. Or be on your way.
> >
> > Or, I will give you yet another way, a perfect way...apologise.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
> >
> > In them is no darkness at all.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
On 01 Jul 2003, cameswalk77@no-spam had this to say:
> I don't get why there seems to be a bit of tension in here, but I'm
> going to answer the question that's on the subject line. Yes,
> Christians sin. We'd be perfect otherwise right? And there was on ONE
> Who walked this earth Who was perfect.
Thank you again for yet another considered answer. It is, as I have
said, not necessarily one I agree with, but it is an answer to the point
raised.
To explain (briefly), the tension in the thread comes from a long-
standing dispute between myself and 'Michael Christ', which goes several
years back into a.r.c. history and is available on Google (*spit*) if you
are interested. I would not recommend you waste your time.
To sum it up briefly, a few years ago I challenged 'Michael Christ' on
the screen name he had chosen, pointing out that it suggests he is
adopting the title for himself. He denies this fervently, claiming that
he is simply saying he is "Michael IN Christ" - while at the same time he
continues to post lectures, instructions, and trite little homilies, and
getting very upset when people ask him questions about them. Usually
because he is unable to answer them and would prefer that his word is
just accepted as holy, divinely-inspired truth.
As in this thread, I have made several attempts to engage Michael in an
adult discussion - usually in relation to a topic he himself has raised,
but because he cannot let go of a grudge, he is unable to do this. He
begins with water-muddying and clumsy misdirection, then moves onto
giving out commands. At one point he instructed me to check something
completely irrelevant on Google and refused to answer any other question
until I had done so, replying only with "go and do as you have been
asked". That went on for *weeks*. When he gets bored of this, he
switches to mockery and name-calling (he once declared that my name was
'Sharon', and will periodically still use the name to refer to me. It is
a perfectly good name, but it is not mine). I have seen Michael's
patience run out on several occasions, which is usually heralded by a
devastating post (last time it was 'fuck off hairy legs' (the man has
never seen my legs, to my knowledge)), and then a long period of silence.
Now, I have no doubt that you are not impressed, since it appears that I
myself am also 'holding a grudge'. This is not so. I dislike Michael's
use of 'Christ', and the rather arrogant and pretentious attitude that he
seems to feel goes with it. It does not seem terribly Christ-like to me,
but that is a minor issue. If Michael was willing to engage in grown-up
conversation then I am sure he would have some interesting things to say.
I am waiting to see whether he is actually capable of this. And he does
not appreciate my curiosity on this subject.
I hope that clears things up a little for you.
--
Midwinter
Michael Christ wrote:
> "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F01175F.8EBD6B37@no-spam
> >
>
> > >
> > > Midwinter wrote:
> > > > You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me
> to
> > > > answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
> > >
> > > I never said such a thing.
> >
> > > Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of
> me?
> > >
> > > That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Midwinter
> >
> > No, to both. :-).
> >
>
>
> Then produce the quote, Rick.
It has been there all along, Michael. Hey, I have given you credit before,
and am not out to get you. I *am* surprised that you don't see how you are
speaking against yourself in the interaction above. If you can't see it,
never mind.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
>
> In them is no darkness at all.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you assert 'you say', quote me. Or be on your way.
> > >
> > > Or, I will give you yet another way, a perfect way...apologise.
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
> > >
> > > In them is no darkness at all.
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
Quote me and show me. Otherwise, be quiet Rick.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael Christ wrote:
> Quote me and show me. Otherwise, be quiet Rick.
IF you are too blind to see, I have nothing else to say. In Christ's
name, look and read again.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
>
> In them is no darkness at all.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
> All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
> "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO as He
did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following Him
means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ, can
achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
I Jn 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
pure.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
you wrote.
We are forgiven, and have
> strength to resist sin.
You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and repentance
means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is a
servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
ever.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:6-10
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
his brother.
(KJV)
you wrote.
>
> Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
>
>
Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and self-control
to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
>
>
> Midwinter wrote:
>
> > On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
> >
> > > NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all
> > > that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
> > > considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And
> > > when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them
> > > by experiencing them daily in your life, you
> > > then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
> > > itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it
> > > is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of
> > > sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER
> > > you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve
> > > being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
> > > which does NOT abide with the Son.
> >
> > You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as Dore
> > has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up in
my
> > estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least act
> > like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because you
> > are not what you think you are.
> >
> > Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your taking
> > the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a fairly
> > important one for the consideration of those who do.
> >
> > --
> > Midwinter
>
> All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
> "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
> strength to resist sin.
>
> Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
>
>
Dore wrote:
> "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
> > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
> > "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
>
> Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO as He
> did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following Him
> means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
> written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
> impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ, can
> achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here who
feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are too
many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but I
don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God will
be forgiving, through the Son's love.
>
> I Jn 3:2-3
> 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
> shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
> we shall see him as he is.
> 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
> pure.
> (KJV)
>
> Matt 5:48
> 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
> perfect.
> (KJV)
>
> you wrote.
> We are forgiven, and have
> > strength to resist sin.
>
> You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and repentance
> means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is a
> servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
I agree with you there. The world, though, keeps throwing sin at us at such a
rapid pace, that it is difficult for some not to stray. The Shepard will round
up the the strays, though, as it has been known from the beginning, who will be
spared the terrible times to come.
>
> John 8:34-35
> 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
> sin is the servant of sin.
> 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
> ever.
> (KJV)
>
> Luke 13:3
> 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
> (KJV)
>
> Rev 2:5
> 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
> first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
> candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
> (KJV)
>
> I Jn 3:6-10
> 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
> neither known him.
> 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
> righteous, even as he is righteous.
> 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
> beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
> destroy the works of the devil.
> 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
> him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
> 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
> whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
> his brother.
> (KJV)
>
> you wrote.
>
> >
> > Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
> >
> >
> Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and self-control
> to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
> automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
>
I'm sorry, but I don't see an "automatic" forgiveness in my statements. I agree
you must repent, commit those sins no more, but still, some go to great degrees,
(different translations of the Bible, which I believe actually makes it easier
to sin, etc) to make a point, which should be, as your last statement above,
short, sweet, and abundantly to the point. I don't really think we have a
problem with each other.
>
> --
> Dore
>
> "Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
> pleased"
>
> Ps 2:12
> 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
> wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
> him.
> (KJV)
>
> http://dorewilliamson.com/
>
> "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
> >
> >
> > Midwinter wrote:
> >
> > > On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
> > >
> > > > NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all
> > > > that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
> > > > considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And
> > > > when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them
> > > > by experiencing them daily in your life, you
> > > > then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
> > > > itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it
> > > > is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of
> > > > sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER
> > > > you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve
> > > > being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
> > > > which does NOT abide with the Son.
> > >
> > > You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as Dore
> > > has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up in
> my
> > > estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least act
> > > like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because you
> > > are not what you think you are.
> > >
> > > Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your taking
> > > the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a fairly
> > > important one for the consideration of those who do.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Midwinter
> >
> > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
> > "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
> > strength to resist sin.
> >
> > Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
> >
> >
"Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@no-spam
> But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
who
> feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
too
> many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
I
> don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
will
> be forgiving, through the Son's love.
>
> >
YOU didn't say "BE" Christ, YOU said CHRISTLIKE as you claim it is an
impossibility.
> > > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
> > > "Christlike", as that is an impossibility. We are forgiven, and have
> > > strength to resist sin.
And NO WHERE do the scriptures state to "STRIVE". It says "BE". The problem
with Christians is they always have an excuse to continue in sin, and a
careless attitude of, " oh well, I slipped again, It's ok, I will be
forgiven". They don't WANT to actually DO what is required, they want to do
what they want to do and still be forgiven constantly and continuously as
though it really doesn't matter. What they should be doing is when they sin,
actually FEEL absolutely horrible and regret their sins AGAINST GOD, more
than anything else, even in tears begging forgiveness and regretting
tremendously, with a heavy heart, that you disappointed and failed the ONE
who you are supposed to LOVE more than your own life. Their attitude is so
complacent and so self-serving that they only want God to love them and
constantly forgive them, when they really don't strive or try at all, and
they never show how real and important it is to show GOD how much they LOVE
HIM. Have YOU made it the most important thing in YOUR life to stop sinning
and walk according to ALL of His ways with ALL of your heart, mind, soul and
STRENGTH ABOVE all else? Placing more importance in seeking His
righteousness and truths, KNOWING Him, personally, intimately, honestly and
sincerely BEFORE your job, career, family, friends, possessions, and
desires? No, I bet you seek MONEY and serve your JOB, family, possessions,
home etc FIRST and then just EXPECT GOD to accept and tolerate it, making
excuses of how you can only strive to be Christlike, and you always fail and
sin, and can't help it, when you never strive at all. Be honest with
yourself for a change.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@no-spam
>
>
> Dore wrote:
>
> > "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
> > > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
> > > "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
> >
> > Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO
as He
> > did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following
Him
> > means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
> > written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
> > impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ,
can
> > achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
>
> But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
who
> feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
too
> many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
I
> don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
will
> be forgiving, through the Son's love.
>
> >
> > I Jn 3:2-3
> > 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what
we
> > shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;
for
> > we shall see him as he is.
> > 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he
is
> > pure.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > Matt 5:48
> > 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
> > perfect.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > you wrote.
> > We are forgiven, and have
> > > strength to resist sin.
> >
> > You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and
repentance
> > means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is
a
> > servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
>
> I agree with you there. The world, though, keeps throwing sin at us at
such a
> rapid pace, that it is difficult for some not to stray. The Shepard will
round
> up the the strays, though, as it has been known from the beginning, who
will be
> spared the terrible times to come.
>
> >
> > John 8:34-35
> > 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever
committeth
> > sin is the servant of sin.
> > 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son
abideth
> > ever.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > Luke 13:3
> > 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > Rev 2:5
> > 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
> > first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
> > candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > I Jn 3:6-10
> > 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen
him,
> > neither known him.
> > 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness
is
> > righteous, even as he is righteous.
> > 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
> > beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
> > destroy the works of the devil.
> > 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in
> > him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
> > 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the
devil:
> > whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth
not
> > his brother.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > you wrote.
> >
> > >
> > > Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
> > >
> > >
> > Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and
self-control
> > to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
> > automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
> >
>
> I'm sorry, but I don't see an "automatic" forgiveness in my statements. I
agree
> you must repent, commit those sins no more, but still, some go to great
degrees,
> (different translations of the Bible, which I believe actually makes it
easier
> to sin, etc) to make a point, which should be, as your last statement
above,
> short, sweet, and abundantly to the point. I don't really think we have a
> problem with each other.
>
> >
> > --
> > Dore
> >
> > "Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
> > pleased"
> >
> > Ps 2:12
> > 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
> > wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
in
> > him.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > http://dorewilliamson.com/
> >
> > "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
> > >
> > >
> > > Midwinter wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
> > > >
> > > > > NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO
all
> > > > > that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
> > > > > considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again.
And
> > > > > when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE
them
> > > > > by experiencing them daily in your life, you
> > > > > then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than
life
> > > > > itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as
it
> > > > > is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely
free of
> > > > > sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing,
AFTER
> > > > > you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot
achieve
> > > > > being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
> > > > > which does NOT abide with the Son.
> > > >
> > > > You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as
Dore
> > > > has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up
in
> > my
> > > > estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least
act
> > > > like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because
you
> > > > are not what you think you are.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your
taking
> > > > the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a
fairly
> > > > important one for the consideration of those who do.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Midwinter
> > >
> > > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
> > > "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
> > > strength to resist sin.
> > >
> > > Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
> > >
> > >
>
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 01:39:00 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam>
wrote:
Yes Rick, you have to do as Dore says, for she would not lie to you.
She is the second coming of Christ, but this time He came back in a
female body. Listen to her, do as she says, or she will damn you to
hell.
Still believing that lie Dore.
Michael Christ wrote:
> Michael Christ wrote:
> > > Quote me and show me. Otherwise, be quiet Rick.
>
> Rick wrote:
> > IF you are too blind to see, I have nothing else to say. In Christ's
> > name, look and read again.
>
> :-).
>
> What are you afraid of, your 'interpretation' can only be wrong, Rick.
For Pete's sake, Michael.....
> > Midwinter wrote:
> > > > You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of
me
> to
> > > > answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
> > >
Michael, you said:> > > I never said such a thing.
Midwinter said:> >
> > > Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of
> me?
> > >
> > > That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Midwinter
> >
Michael, *you* said: > > No, to both. :-).
If it is true that the anser to both of Midwinter's questions is "No,"
then you should be able to answer his question.
It's not my interpretation that's in question here. It *appears* clear,
that you said "NO". Why then not answer? It's your interpretation that
seems to be unclear.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
>
> In them is no darkness at all.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dore wrote:
> "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@no-spam
> > But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
> who
> > feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
> too
> > many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
> I
> > don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
> will
> > be forgiving, through the Son's love.
> >
> > >
>
> YOU didn't say "BE" Christ, YOU said CHRISTLIKE as you claim it is an
> impossibility.
>
> > > > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
> truly
> > > > "Christlike", as that is an impossibility. We are forgiven, and have
> > > > strength to resist sin.
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike, except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had to die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for them, and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for our
salvation.
>
>
> And NO WHERE do the scriptures state to "STRIVE". It says "BE". The problem
> with Christians is they always have an excuse to continue in sin, and a
> careless attitude of, " oh well, I slipped again, It's ok, I will be
> forgiven".
I didn't say that. Once you sin, and realize it is against the will of God, you
should be sorry, repent, and not commit that sin again. I never meant that
anyone is forgiven the same sin over and over again.
>
> They don't WANT to actually DO what is required, they want to do
> what they want to do and still be forgiven constantly and continuously as
> though it really doesn't matter. What they should be doing is when they sin,
> actually FEEL absolutely horrible and regret their sins AGAINST GOD, more
> than anything else, even in tears begging forgiveness and regretting
> tremendously, with a heavy heart, that you disappointed and failed the ONE
> who you are supposed to LOVE more than your own life. Their attitude is so
> complacent and so self-serving that they only want God to love them and
> constantly forgive them, when they really don't strive or try at all, and
> they never show how real and important it is to show GOD how much they LOVE
> HIM. Have YOU made it the most important thing in YOUR life to stop sinning
> and walk according to ALL of His ways with ALL of your heart, mind, soul and
> STRENGTH ABOVE all else? Placing more importance in seeking His
> righteousness and truths, KNOWING Him, personally, intimately, honestly and
> sincerely BEFORE your job, career, family, friends, possessions, and
> desires?
I had spent more than a year, at the bottom of a mountain, that allowed no radio
or tv signals to reach my house. I studied the Bible, and allowed it to speak
to me, in a way I had never done before. I had been saved for over 10 years, at
that point, but never really understood what I needed to. Hours upon hours, and
days upon days, of duitiful study and prayer, opened up His word to me, allowing
me to glean much more than many I know. I am nowhere near perfect, but do try
to better myself all the time.
> No, I bet you seek MONEY and serve your JOB, family, possessions,
> home etc FIRST and then just EXPECT GOD to accept and tolerate it, making
> excuses of how you can only strive to be Christlike, and you always fail and
> sin, and can't help it, when you never strive at all. Be honest with
> yourself for a change.
I can be. I live on disability, I am happy with a 1/1 apartment, and a 1983
automobile. I don't worry about money in the least, as my needs are always
met. That is better than some can say. I have taken up the sword for Christ,
and in no way feel complacent regarding my beliefs.
Listen, I have been in a wheelchair since age 5, (never able to walk) supposed
to be dead by age 7, yet God has seen reason for me to outlive the doctors and
their death sentence, 10 times over, since being put in the chair. I love life,
and know there is a purpose God has for me here.
I realize that you are supposed to be the Second Coming, as is written by
others, and yourself, on your website. Why didn't you know that I care more
about the next world, than anything about this one?
Look deep inside, Dore, before you make accusations against the ones who love
God the most.
>
> --
> Dore
>
> "Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
> pleased"
>
> Ps 2:12
> 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
> wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
> him.
> (KJV)
>
> http://dorewilliamson.com/
>
> "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@no-spam
> >
> >
> > Dore wrote:
> >
> > > "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> > > news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
> > > > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
> truly
> > > > "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
> > >
> > > Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO
> as He
> > > did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following
> Him
> > > means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
> > > written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
> > > impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ,
> can
> > > achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
> >
> > But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
> who
> > feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
> too
> > many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
> I
> > don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
> will
> > be forgiving, through the Son's love.
> >
> > >
> > > I Jn 3:2-3
> > > 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what
> we
> > > shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;
> for
> > > we shall see him as he is.
> > > 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he
> is
> > > pure.
> > > (KJV)
> > >
> > > Matt 5:48
> > > 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
> > > perfect.
> > > (KJV)
> > >
> > > you wrote.
> > > We are forgiven, and have
> > > > strength to resist sin.
> > >
> > > You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and
> repentance
> > > means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is
> a
> > > servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
> >
> > I agree with you there. The world, though, keeps throwing sin at us at
> such a
> > rapid pace, that it is difficult for some not to stray. The Shepard will
> round
> > up the the strays, though, as it has been known from the beginning, who
> will be
> > spared the terrible times to come.
> >
> > >
> > > John 8:34-35
> > > 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever
> committeth
> > > sin is the servant of sin.
> > > 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son
> abideth
> > > ever.
> > > (KJV)
> > >
> > > Luke 13:3
> > > 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
> > > (KJV)
> > >
> > > Rev 2:5
> > > 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
> > > first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
> > > candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
> > > (KJV)
> > >
> > > I Jn 3:6-10
> > > 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen
> him,
> > > neither known him.
> > > 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness
> is
> > > righteous, even as he is righteous.
> > > 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
> > > beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
> > > destroy the works of the devil.
> > > 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
> in
> > > him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
> > > 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the
> devil:
> > > whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth
> not
> > > his brother.
> > > (KJV)
> > >
> > > you wrote.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and
> self-control
> > > to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
> > > automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
> > >
> >
> > I'm sorry, but I don't see an "automatic" forgiveness in my statements. I
> agree
> > you must repent, commit those sins no more, but still, some go to great
> degrees,
> > (different translations of the Bible, which I believe actually makes it
> easier
> > to sin, etc) to make a point, which should be, as your last statement
> above,
> > short, sweet, and abundantly to the point. I don't really think we have a
> > problem with each other.
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dore
> > >
> > > "Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
> > > pleased"
> > >
> > > Ps 2:12
> > > 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
> > > wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
> in
> > > him.
> > > (KJV)
> > >
> > > http://dorewilliamson.com/
> > >
> > > "Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
> > > news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Midwinter wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
> > > > >
> > > > > > NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO
> all
> > > > > > that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
> > > > > > considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again.
> And
> > > > > > when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE
> them
> > > > > > by experiencing them daily in your life, you
> > > > > > then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than
> life
> > > > > > itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as
> it
> > > > > > is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely
> free of
> > > > > > sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing,
> AFTER
> > > > > > you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot
> achieve
> > > > > > being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
> > > > > > which does NOT abide with the Son.
> > > > >
> > > > > You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as
> Dore
> > > > > has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up
> in
> > > my
> > > > > estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least
> act
> > > > > like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because
> you
> > > > > are not what you think you are.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your
> taking
> > > > > the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a
> fairly
> > > > > important one for the consideration of those who do.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Midwinter
> > > >
> > > > All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
> truly
> > > > "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
> > > > strength to resist sin.
> > > >
> > > > Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
> > > >
> > > >
> >
larry4355@no-spam wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 01:39:00 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> Yes Rick, you have to do as Dore says, for she would not lie to you.
> She is the second coming of Christ, but this time He came back in a
> female body. Listen to her, do as she says, or she will damn you to
> hell.
> Still believing that lie Dore.
Hey Larrry.....How's it going? I do as Dore says. I am human, though,
so will slip up. It's good to know Jesus is there to help pick me back
up. He'll pick you up, too, but you already know that.
Have a safe 4th, Buddy....
Rick wrote:
> Michael, *you* said: > > No, to both. :-).
> If it is true that the anser to both of Midwinter's questions is "No,"
> then you should be able to answer his question.
Her.
Rick wrote:
> It's not my interpretation that's in question here. It *appears* clear,
> that you said "NO". Why then not answer? It's your interpretation that
> seems to be unclear.
Well, something at least.......
Perhaps now you would begin to get a taste what I have to go through
...constantly...for years...in these newsgroups...Rick.
I am not a slave to the will and the whims of the world, Rick.
Midwinter carrying on as usual wrote:
> Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of me?
>
> That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?
>
> --
> Midwinter
Michael Christ wrote:
>No, to both. :-).
No, I am not unable to answer the question, Rick.
No, it is not related to her insinuation...former or otherwise.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
From the other post...
Midwinter wrote:
> You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me to
> answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
Michael Christ wrote:
>I never said such a thing.
>If you assert 'you say', quote me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
She was never able to produce the quote, Rick, because it was never said.
It works like this; I say that you say that you hate me.
Then I say to you, why do you hate me Rick.
Then I say, are Christians suppose to hate?
You are a false Christian.
Understand? Nothing but contention for sake of finding a way to rebel
against God...in reality.
If I had said, yes, your summation would have been correct.
Anyway, look at the 'twistedness' of the questions...that is what I have a
personal dislike for...and for a lie.
Why do you think the smile was put there??
But Rick, you came in judgement...therefore you are accountable...
Rick wrote:
>Yes, you *did* Michael, and it appears, you are in the wrong here. Are you
>man enough to apologize, or rather, Christian enough to admit that you have
>wronged someone, as commanded by Christ, Himself?
Now, what of you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 04 Jul 2003, Michael Christ had this to say:
> From the other post...
>
> Midwinter wrote:
>> You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me
>> to answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>I never said such a thing.
>
>>If you assert 'you say', quote me.
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> She was never able to produce the quote, Rick, because it was never
> said.
Let us recap, since you have had trouble following the conversation:
Your original post asked "Do Christians sin?"
It stated:
"Yes...if you are a christian in name only. No...if you are a
Christian."
I then asked you - quite reasonably, I thought:
"Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?"
You evaded the question, by replying:
"You have only ever known the former, and they set the agenda for what
you believe."
I had not asked you to assess the Christians I was acquainted with. You
would not have answered this way to someone you did not know at all. In
other words, your attitude to the question was affected by your previous
dealings with me - which I think we both admit have been less than
satisfactory.
I then brought you up on this, asking:
"Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of
me? That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?"
Your reply:
"No, to both. :-)."
You are answering that you are not unable to answer the question due to
your personal dislike of me, and that had that been the case you do not
believe in any event that it would equate you with the first type of
'Christians' you highlighted in your initial post - those who are
Christian in name only.
That also reads as a statement that you ARE capable of putting aside your
personal dislikes to answer a reasonable question. But you have not yet
done so. Several people have - including Dore, with whom I have also had
disagreements. You have not.
I asked:
"You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me to
answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?"
You seized on this as a way out. Because I had not directly quoted you,
you were able to use this as another "go and do as you have been asked" -
a way to avoid the question by clinging to an irrelevance.
I trust that will be enough quotes to satisfy you. What will be your
next objection?
--
Midwinter
Your opinion is not my opinion, Sharon.
When you can stop saying I say something when I do not, then we have a place
to start...
once again.
Until then, contention for contention sake is a waste of time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And, I will say again...
"You have only ever known the former, and they set the agenda for what
you believe."
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And...
It is you who has the personal dislike dear. That is fair enough, but that
is what fuels your actions and therefore that is your downfall.
If you had gone and done what you were told you still wouldn't be stuck in
the same place you were in 2 years ago or so.
Still, you know what's best; after all, your ways are perfect, like all
those other theologians of mental brilliance.
You are wrong, Sharon, you always have been. The amazing thing is, is that
you know it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Midwinter" <midw688@no-spam> wrote in message
news:be49q7$lpe$1@no-spam
> On 04 Jul 2003, Michael Christ had this to say:
>
> > From the other post...
> >
> > Midwinter wrote:
> >> You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me
> >> to answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?
> >
> > Michael Christ wrote:
> >>I never said such a thing.
> >
> >>If you assert 'you say', quote me.
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > She was never able to produce the quote, Rick, because it was never
> > said.
>
> Let us recap, since you have had trouble following the conversation:
>
> Your original post asked "Do Christians sin?"
>
> It stated:
>
> "Yes...if you are a christian in name only. No...if you are a
> Christian."
>
>
>
> I then asked you - quite reasonably, I thought:
>
> "Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
> suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?"
>
>
>
> You evaded the question, by replying:
>
> "You have only ever known the former, and they set the agenda for what
> you believe."
>
> I had not asked you to assess the Christians I was acquainted with. You
> would not have answered this way to someone you did not know at all. In
> other words, your attitude to the question was affected by your previous
> dealings with me - which I think we both admit have been less than
> satisfactory.
>
>
>
> I then brought you up on this, asking:
>
> "Are you unable to answer the question due to your personal dislike of
> me? That in itself seems rather 'former', would you not say?"
>
>
>
> Your reply:
>
> "No, to both. :-)."
>
> You are answering that you are not unable to answer the question due to
> your personal dislike of me, and that had that been the case you do not
> believe in any event that it would equate you with the first type of
> 'Christians' you highlighted in your initial post - those who are
> Christian in name only.
>
> That also reads as a statement that you ARE capable of putting aside your
> personal dislikes to answer a reasonable question. But you have not yet
> done so. Several people have - including Dore, with whom I have also had
> disagreements. You have not.
>
> I asked:
>
> "You say you are capable of putting aside your personal dislike of me to
> answer the question. So, what would you have to say about this?"
>
> You seized on this as a way out. Because I had not directly quoted you,
> you were able to use this as another "go and do as you have been asked" -
> a way to avoid the question by clinging to an irrelevance.
>
> I trust that will be enough quotes to satisfy you. What will be your
> next objection?
>
> --
> Midwinter
Still ignoring the truth, and dwelling in ignorance and sin, Larry?
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
<larry4355@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3cb7gvg0370fn5p4dpq0ek0nquhdpg2oi7@no-spam
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 01:39:00 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> Yes Rick, you have to do as Dore says, for she would not lie to you.
> She is the second coming of Christ, but this time He came back in a
> female body. Listen to her, do as she says, or she will damn you to
> hell.
> Still believing that lie Dore.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:07:43 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam>
wrote:
>Still ignoring the truth, and dwelling in ignorance and sin, Larry?
No I am not, but you are not the truth, in fact you are far from the
truth.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:09:05 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam>
wrote:
><larry4355@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:qcv9gv4q6k7olmu4ipgfltmg9fdobg9isj@no-spam
>
>> Well yes it is good to know that Jesus is there to help pick us back
>> up. But it will not be dore doing the picking up, no matter what she
>> says.
>
>You're right, I am here to JUDGE. It is the Holy Spirit that does the
>picking up.
You are not here to judge nobody dore. You are a fake and a fraud.
Give it up.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:19:24 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam>
wrote:
>
>"Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:3F04904A.4ECA93@no-spam
>
>> TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike, except
>> Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
>
>Of course anyone who CHOOSES to walk as He walk, discipline themselves into
>DOING the will of God, commit themselves to laying down their whole lives
>for that purpose alone, which is what you are ALL supposed to do, can.
>
>you wrote.
>>
>> If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had to
>die for
>> our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for them,
>and not
>> have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for our
>> salvation.
>
>You have every word of Christ to learn, DO and LIVE, AFTER 2000 years so you
>are to prepare yourselves to BE perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect
>and DO everything that Christ said, commanded, demanded and required because
>it is all written down nicely for you to abide in. Christ dies to give you
>OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven of sins, if you REPENT. YOU are responsible for
>your sins, and WILL die in them, if you are still continuing in them and
>refuse to repent, which means STOP SINNING.
Oh Oh look our Dore, claiming to be Christ returned in a female body,
is a sin. You better repent and give up this little game of yours.
> For those who sin are a servant
>of sin and do NOT abide with the Son. Salvation is given to those who
>believe, and repent of sins and DO the will of the Father.
>
>
>John 8:34-35
>34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
>sin is the servant of sin.
>35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
>ever.
>(KJV)
>
>
>I Jn 3:2-10
>2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
>shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
>we shall see him as he is.
>3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
>pure.
>4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the
>transgression of the law.
>5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no
>sin.
>6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
>neither known him.
>7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
>righteous, even as he is righteous.
>8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
>beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
>destroy the works of the devil.
>9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
>him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
>10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
>whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
>his brother.
>(KJV)
>
>
>Matt 5:48
>48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
>perfect.
>(KJV)
>
>
>The wages of sin is STILL death for those who REFUSE to repent and DO the
>will of the Father. That is the problem with Christianity today, they are
>really only part time Christians, seeking, doing and serving all of the
>desires and things in this life and placing the most important thing as
>seeking the truths and DOING all that is commanded, demanded and required,
>self-discipline, denying oneself, picking up the cross and purifying
>yourself into the ways of God FIRST and FOREMOST. In fact, lay down your
>whole life and all that it contains right now and begin to actually FOLLOW
>CHRIST, with ALL of your STRENGTH, ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind, and
>ALL of your soul, and with your WHOLE life and with all efforts until you
>have achieved the perfection of God, if you want to be saved for there is
>NOTHING more important in this life than doing exactly that.
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:14:04 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam> wrote:
>
>"Rick Foster" <spoker@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@no-spam
>> All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
>> "Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
>
>Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO as He
>did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following Him
>means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
>written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
>impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ, can
>achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
Well, all I can say is that if you represent god and jesus, then I want
nothing to do with either of them.
Keep up the good work, Dore, you are turning more people away from religion
with your psychotic ravings than 1000 atheists with thier reasoned arguments
could ever hope to.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:09:05 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@no-spam> wrote:
><larry4355@no-spam> wrote in message
>news:qcv9gv4q6k7olmu4ipgfltmg9fdobg9isj@no-spam
>
>> Well yes it is good to know that Jesus is there to help pick us back
>> up. But it will not be dore doing the picking up, no matter what she
>> says.
>
>You're right, I am here to JUDGE. It is the Holy Spirit that does the
>picking up.
Yeah, that seems to be -all- that you are capable of. Why don't you go out
and learn a skill, Dore, then you will have something to be proud of.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:07:43 GMT, "Dore" &