AUS SPORT RUGBY-LEAGUE 39 WHERE S THE LOGIC
From: "Jack Lamb" (3bsaresofter@no-spam)
Subject: Where's the logic?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:02:21 +1000


Consider QLD's problem: a complete lack of potency in attack.

Instead of bringing in, oh..... say Rhys Wesser, who admittedly would have had to play out of position at either centre or winger, the selectors, in their infinite wisdom, plump for Josh Hannay. Don't get me wrong, I really rate the guy. But in effect, they've simply switched one "defensive" centre for another one, and *still* have bloody Carroll in the side (and Ikin too,
to make matters worse).

Ridiculous call, really. At least Gee's gone, but Wesser (and of course Shifcofske) must be almost wishing they were eligible for NSW selection...
such a waste of talent, it actually makes me angry. I guess Bowen will get ten minutes at the end of the game for Ikin or someone though.

Roll on the end of Wayne Bennett as Maroons coach, if it's really him behind the non-selection of RW and CS. Slater might end up making the side by the age of 30, as he does play for a team that has some sort of a link to Bennett.






From: "Funniest Nick OTY" (SpamTheManWhileYouCan@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:36:42 +1000

Bennett's loyalty to his Broncos family has cost you this year.

What does the Qld press think of this loyalty ?

"Jack Lamb" <3bsaresofter@no-spam> wrote in message news:beb9ee$34bj5$1@no-spam > Consider QLD's problem: a complete lack of potency in attack.
>
> Instead of bringing in, oh..... say Rhys Wesser, who admittedly would have > had to play out of position at either centre or winger, the selectors, in > their infinite wisdom, plump for Josh Hannay. Don't get me wrong, I really > rate the guy. But in effect, they've simply switched one "defensive"
centre > for another one, and *still* have bloody Carroll in the side (and Ikin too,
> to make matters worse).
>
> Ridiculous call, really. At least Gee's gone, but Wesser (and of course > Shifcofske) must be almost wishing they were eligible for NSW selection...
> such a waste of talent, it actually makes me angry. I guess Bowen will get > ten minutes at the end of the game for Ikin or someone though.
>
> Roll on the end of Wayne Bennett as Maroons coach, if it's really him behind > the non-selection of RW and CS. Slater might end up making the side by the > age of 30, as he does play for a team that has some sort of a link to > Bennett.
>
>


From: "Jack Lamb" (3bsaresofter@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:52:14 +1000

"Funniest Nick OTY" <SpamTheManWhileYouCan@no-spam> wrote in message news:3f093136$0$23202$afc38c87@no-spam > Bennett's loyalty to his Broncos family has cost you this year.
>
> What does the Qld press think of this loyalty ?

Well, Barry "I don't need a nickname to reflect my idiocy" Dick certainly never has a bad word to say about it.

And I'm sure you were inferring it, but it's not just his "Broncos family"
he's favouring... enter as evidence Mr. Ben "Tonight I'm gonna motor like it's nine-teen-ninety-five - oh wait...maybe not" Ikin.


From: "Jack Lamb" (3bsaresofter@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:54:13 +1000

"Bunny" <wellington@no-spam> wrote in message news:osaOa.563$Xx6.11993@no-spam > I would have thought trialing 'new' players in game three of a dead rubber > would make sense. Obviously Bennett doesn't see it that way.

Nope, apparently, it's a good opportunity to go back to conservatism,
probably in some belief that 'gifting NSW a win is bad'.

Selecting Ikin is gifting NSW a win if you ask me. Geez, give the guy a year with the Clydesdales to get some pace back.

Not sure if it's happened yet, but if keeping Ikin means Scott Prince is let go... well, that's just poor.


From: "GV }:c{»" (asrl_gv_SPAM@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:20:11 +1000

Jack Lamb wrote:
>
> "Bunny" <wellington@no-spam> wrote in message > news:osaOa.563$Xx6.11993@no-spam >> I would have thought trialing 'new' players in game three of a dead >> rubber would make sense. Obviously Bennett doesn't see it that way.
>
> Nope, apparently, it's a good opportunity to go back to conservatism,
> probably in some belief that 'gifting NSW a win is bad'.
>
> Selecting Ikin is gifting NSW a win if you ask me. Geez, give the > guy a year with the Clydesdales to get some pace back.
>
> Not sure if it's happened yet, but if keeping Ikin means Scott Prince > is let go... well, that's just poor.

Prince doesn't want to go, and isn't that keen to link up with Sheens again,
although he is grateful for the chance Sheens gave him at the Cowboys.

But I have yet to hear if he is staying or not.

-- GreenViking }:c{>
Round 17 - Canberra 8 v Melbourne 18
3rd Raiders P15 W10 D0 L5 B2 Pts24 F377 A282 Diff+95

Season '82 - http://raiders.rleague.com Go CANBERRA RAIDERS!!!
Go Central Qld Comets!!
Go Berserker Vikings!


From: "Bunny" (wellington@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:33:27 GMT

> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/02/1056825460011.html >
> The Tigers are reported to be after De Vere and Chris Walker too.
>
> Sam >
>

Chris Walker? They have to be kidding. After the Rabbitohs' experience I can't believe that anyone would make that fuckwit an offer.

Michael De Vere would be a good buy though.


From: "Chris Cox" (cjcox@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:14:33 +1000

"Funniest Nick OTY" <SpamTheManWhileYouCan@no-spam> wrote in message news:3f093136$0$23202$afc38c87@no-spam > Bennett's loyalty to his Broncos family has cost you this year.
>
> What does the Qld press think of this loyalty ?

Qld press = Broncos sponsors. They don't say an awful lot.


From: "Funniest Nick OTY" (SpamTheManWhileYouCan@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:40:56 +1000

"Bunny" <wellington@no-spam> wrote in message news:rMdOa.1211$Xx6.14488@no-spam > > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/02/1056825460011.html > >
> > The Tigers are reported to be after De Vere and Chris Walker too.
> >
> > Sam > >
> >
>
> Chris Walker? They have to be kidding. After the Rabbitohs' experience I > can't believe that anyone would make that fuckwit an offer.

If he walked out on Souths because they weren't doing so well wouldn't he do the same to the hapless Tigers ?

>
>


From: "Mick" (mksharp.nospam@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:01:28 +1000

Funniest Nick OTY wrote:

> "Chris Cox" <cjcox@no-spam> wrote in > message news:s4nOa.8798$eE.121220@no-spam >> "Funniest Nick OTY" <SpamTheManWhileYouCan@no-spam> wrote in >> message news:3f093136$0$23202$afc38c87@no-spam >>> Bennett's loyalty to his Broncos family has cost you this year.
>>>
>>> What does the Qld press think of this loyalty ?
>>
>> Qld press = Broncos sponsors. They don't say an awful lot.
>
>
> News Ltd have pretty much got control of the Qld'ers minds up there. I > wonder how many don't realise they're being had.

No more than any other state. This is, after all, the 21st century. This is not 1908 where the printed press was the only real form of information dissemination.


From: "Chris Cox" (cjcox@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:04:19 +1000

"Funniest Nick OTY" <SpamTheManWhileYouCan@no-spam> wrote in message news:3f0a2fa9$0$30822$afc38c87@no-spam >
> "Chris Cox" <cjcox@no-spam> wrote in message > news:s4nOa.8798$eE.121220@no-spam > > "Funniest Nick OTY" <SpamTheManWhileYouCan@no-spam> wrote in > > message news:3f093136$0$23202$afc38c87@no-spam > > > Bennett's loyalty to his Broncos family has cost you this year.
> > >
> > > What does the Qld press think of this loyalty ?
> >
> > Qld press = Broncos sponsors. They don't say an awful lot.
>
>
> News Ltd have pretty much got control of the Qld'ers minds up there. I > wonder how many don't realise they're being had.

Well some up here still spout about the conspiracy against anything from Queensland whenever dud decisions go against Queensland or the Broncos. So some are still very much controlled. So much so they don't notice when the Broncos and Queensland get _favourable_ decisions go their way.

Conspiracy theories are only useful if you ignore the facts.

News Ltd press is good at that.


From: "Chris Cox" (cjcox@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:19:35 +1000

"Mick" <mksharp.nospam@no-spam> wrote in message news:bedc6b$3t8i5$1@no-spam > Funniest Nick OTY wrote:
>
> >>> What does the Qld press think of this loyalty ?
> >>
> >> Qld press = Broncos sponsors. They don't say an awful lot.
> >
> >
> > News Ltd have pretty much got control of the Qld'ers minds up there. I > > wonder how many don't realise they're being had.
>
> No more than any other state. This is, after all, the 21st century. This > is not 1908 where the printed press was the only real form of information > dissemination.

Unfortunately there are enough people who believe everything they read in the papers, and thus contribute to talkback radio and perpetuate the myths :-)


From: "Mick" (mksharp.nospam@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:39:38 +1000

Chris Cox wrote:

> "Mick" <mksharp.nospam@no-spam> wrote in message > news:bedc6b$3t8i5$1@no-spam >> Funniest Nick OTY wrote:
>>
>>>>> What does the Qld press think of this loyalty ?
>>>>
>>>> Qld press = Broncos sponsors. They don't say an awful lot.
>>>
>>>
>>> News Ltd have pretty much got control of the Qld'ers minds up >>> there. I wonder how many don't realise they're being had.
>>
>> No more than any other state. This is, after all, the 21st century.
>> This is not 1908 where the printed press was the only real form of >> information dissemination.
>
> Unfortunately there are enough people who believe everything they > read in the papers, and thus contribute to talkback radio and > perpetuate the myths :-)

Well I've had the opportunity to live in the three main States and Territories involved in RL over the years. I joined the Navy in the first year of an Origin series (1982), lived in Sydney 1984-1996, then spent 5
years in Canberra from 1996-2001 before relocating back to Brisbane.

The one thing I can say is that each city pushes its own agenda. Brisbane is certainly no worse than Sydney. Actually I'd say at times the Sydney press was a hell of a lot worse, particularly when Wally was in his prime.
They crucified him so much, particularly when he got the Australian captaincy over Ray Price, the crowd booed him once when he lead the Test team onto the SCG.

What you are saying might be true, but don't for one second think its unique to Brisbane.


From: "Slippery Sam" (sonof@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:58:54 GMT

Chris Cox <cjcox@no-spam> wrote:
> "Mick" <mksharp.nospam@no-spam> wrote in message > news:bededt$3qrav$1@no-spam >> Chris Cox wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately there are enough people who believe everything they >>> read in the papers, and thus contribute to talkback radio and >>> perpetuate the myths :-)
>
> <snip perfectly valid argument I agree with>
>
>> What you are saying might be true, but don't for one second think its >> unique to Brisbane.
>
> Totally. I wasn't saying Brisbane was unique in its potential for > inward thinking and selfishness. Heck I've been to Britain, you > should see what they're like ;)

Indeed!

Sam

From: "Javed" (javed_no_hamidi_spam@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 04:54:48 GMT

"Jack Lamb" <3bsaresofter@no-spam> wrote in message news:beb9ee$34bj5$1@no-spam > Consider QLD's problem: a complete lack of potency in attack.
>
> Instead of bringing in, oh..... say Rhys Wesser, who admittedly would have > had to play out of position at either centre or winger,

Well, in defence of Hegarty and Sing, an advantage of the way they play the game is that both are very good dummy half runners. Both will gain 10 metres of ground on the 2nd tackle when their forwards are coming back onside, and that can help the team out tremendously. Sing and Hegarty are two of the most effective players in the NRL in that regard.

Both are established wingers and both have been in good form,
especially Sing at the Cowboys. I'm not saying Wesser or Schif couldn't play that style, but these players have (FWIW they would probably add more zip in attack than Hegarty).

> the selectors, in > their infinite wisdom, plump for Josh Hannay. Don't get me wrong, I really > rate the guy. But in effect, they've simply switched one "defensive"
centre > for another one,

You have a point here. However Hannay is very strong, has deceptive pace,
can offload to his winger and is an excellent goalkicker. His defence is also very good which would be important up when facing Matt Gidley. As good as Wesser is,
could he contain Gidley or Lyon, could he make 25+ tackles per game in the centres vs 5 tackles at the back?

> and *still* have bloody Carroll in the side (and Ikin too,
> to make matters worse).

True. They really need to reward the faith shown in them by having strong games. It seems a bit harsh to drop Sattler - he probably would have been good as starting lock because he is robust yet has good ball skills (I would go so far as to say that they would be slightly better than those of Norton).

The bench is a little lightweight too, which may mean we'll see Dane Carlaw pressed into service as a fourth prop. I will be surprised if Cameron Smith actually starts at hooker ahead of Crocker, regardless of the supposed lack of quality of Crocker's dummy half service in Game 2.


From: "Colin Lord" (clord@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:13:54 GMT

"Jack Lamb" <3bsaresofter@no-spam> wrote in message news:beb9ee$34bj5$1@no-spam > Consider QLD's problem: a complete lack of potency in attack.
>
> Instead of bringing in, oh..... say Rhys Wesser, who admittedly would have > had to play out of position at either centre or winger, the selectors, in > their infinite wisdom, plump for Josh Hannay. Don't get me wrong, I really > rate the guy. But in effect, they've simply switched one "defensive"
centre > for another one, and *still* have bloody Carroll in the side (and Ikin too,
> to make matters worse).

This whole Qld outside backs lacking attacking potency is blown out of proportion. Apart form Carroll they are all capable offensively and defensively. The fact is the NSW defensive system is so good at shutting down any outside back offense before they even get the ball. And this is a problem that Qld have to solve in the forwards, in their tactics and in the halves.

Wesser doesn't bring anything they don't already have. He can score tries but so can the rest of the Qld outside backs. He is just as likely to be shutdown before he gets an opportunity as the rest of the backs. I wouldn't play him in the centres because NSW will run big, fast skilled forwards at him all game. Part of the reason Hannay is selected is to tackle. NSW get by with a defensive centre, they have even put in a 5/8 is who is really a defensive centre (look for Anasta to be the real 5/8 in SoO III). That only leaves the wing for Wesser, and both Heggarty and Sing have done nothing wrong. The only option was to move Heggarty to centre and Wesser to wing,
even then he might get beaten to the spot by Schifofscke.


From: "Slippery Sam" (sonof@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:31:44 GMT

Colin Lord <clord@no-spam> wrote:
> Wesser doesn't bring anything they don't already have. He can score > tries but so can the rest of the Qld outside backs. He is just as > likely to be shutdown before he gets an opportunity as the rest of > the backs. I wouldn't play him in the centres because NSW will run > big, fast skilled forwards at him all game. Part of the reason Hannay > is selected is to tackle. NSW get by with a defensive centre, they > have even put in a 5/8 is who is really a defensive centre (look for > Anasta to be the real 5/8 in SoO III). That only leaves the wing for > Wesser, and both Heggarty and Sing have done nothing wrong. The only > option was to move Heggarty to centre and Wesser to wing, even then > he might get beaten to the spot by Schifofscke.

Well it's all very well to mourn Wesser's omission - and fair enough - but spare a thought for the rest of Penrith. Campbell and Gower didn't get a look in for NSW either, and they've both been outstanding this season.

I wonder if John Lang can go the distance. He has a track record of taking sides to the top of the table, but never being able to finish the job in the big matches. Which also places a questionmark over his ability to coach SOO.

I have Penrith down as my second favourite this season, but I'd still be surprised to see them make it into the Quarter finals.

Sam

From: "Slippery Sam" (sonof@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:57:34 GMT

paul <paulw@no-spam> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:31:44 GMT, "Slippery Sam" <sonof@no-spam>
> wrote:
> Quarter finals? Isn't that the Top 8? They will make the top 8 even if > they lose every match from now on
Oh yeah, you're right. I meant semis.

> You must remember Penrith are not Cronulla.

They're the new Cronulla.

Sam

From: "Jeff" (jeff9011spammo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:30:43 +0100

Chris Cox <cjcox@no-spam> shat the following logs: > "Mick" <mksharp.nospam@no-spam> wrote in message > news:bededt$3qrav$1@no-spam >> Chris Cox wrote:
>> >>> Unfortunately there are enough people who believe everything they >>> read in the papers, and thus contribute to talkback radio and >>> perpetuate the myths :-)
> > <snip perfectly valid argument I agree with>
> >> What you are saying might be true, but don't for one second think its >> unique to Brisbane.
> > Totally. I wasn't saying Brisbane was unique in its potential for > inward thinking and selfishness. Heck I've been to Britain, you > should see what they're like ;)

We're Europeans actually.

HTH
Cheers,
Jeff.


From: "DaNRL" (asrltopposter@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Where's the logic?
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:18:44 +1000

Jeff <jeff9011spammo@no-spam> whilst enjoying the feel of that sweet, sweet wood moaned:

> Chris Cox <cjcox@no-spam> shat the > following logs:
>> "Mick" <mksharp.nospam@no-spam> wrote in message >> news:bededt$3qrav$1@no-spam >>> Chris Cox wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately there are enough people who believe >>>> everything they read in the papers, and thus contribute to >>>> talkback radio and perpetuate the myths :-)
>>
>> <snip perfectly valid argument I agree with>
>>
>>> What you are saying might be true, but don't for one second >>> think its unique to Brisbane.
>>
>> Totally. I wasn't saying Brisbane was unique in its >> potential for inward thinking and selfishness. Heck I've >> been to Britain, you should see what they're like ;)
>
> We're Europeans actually.

Did you read that in the paper?

Daniel.