mh <mhantispamobratschk@no-spam> wrote in message news:<rlf9fvkl2im33s8offqj7d6b5v2102318v@no-spam>...
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:36:47 GMT, "jjp" <jjp76@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >
> >"JETman" <jetassoc@no-spam> wrote in message
> >news:3EF49231.68165339@no-spam
> >>
> >>
> >> My neighbor, a native Texan said it best this morning at our routine
> >> Saturday coffee outing, "In the old days when highway 81 ran north and
> >> south through town, Austin was simply a place that you passed through on
> >> the way to San Antonio."
> >>
> >> That being said, Austin grew but the result is still small town
> >> amenities in a large city.
> >>
> >> Now, the complaint about food to me is, well sorta meaningless since it
> >> all ends up in the same place in twenty-four hours or so. Regarding the
> >> other items, the points are well taken. For instance, where do you have
> >> to go to see:
> >>
> >> A) Worldclass Theatre?
> >> B) Worldclass Parks?
> >> C) Worldclass Zoo?
> >> D) Worldclass Higher Education (besides UT)?
> >> E) Well Integrated Freeway System?
> >
> >Houston for most of these, and for the better restaurants...
>
> Of course, in Houston you also get:
>
> Higher Crime
For the size of the city, crime is not particularly high.
> Higher Pollution
This is really the only legit complaint in my opinion.
> Higher Transportation Costs
Slightly. But this can be reduced by living close to work.
Also, housing prices are lower than in Austin.
It evens out.
> Less Educated Populace
Varies greatly by area of town. The east side and poor areas drag down
the stats for the city as a whole. There are also more immigrants. But
the nice areas have residents who are every bit as much or more
educated than Austin's residents. Who do you think is working in the
Texas Medical Center and NASA?
> Less Scenery
Really only as far as hills. In Houston, before I moved out to the
'burbs I lived in a neighborhood with so many trees, even Austin would
be envious.
> More Billboards
On freeways perhaps, but it's also a larger city.
> etc.
> etc.
> etc.
Such as all the big city amenities Austin lacks...
On 24 Jun 2003 20:55:09 -0700, jjp76@no-spam (jjp) wrote:
>>
>> Higher Crime
>
>For the size of the city, crime is not particularly high.
Right. Truth is, you're more likely to be the vicitim of a violent
crime in Houston than you are in Austin. Same for property crime.
Hell, Los Angeles is safer (and bigger) according to FBI stats.
Of course, that explains the paranoid, insular attitude I've noticed
in many Houstonians ...
>
>> Higher Pollution
>
>This is really the only legit complaint in my opinion.
>
>> Higher Transportation Costs
>
>Slightly. But this can be reduced by living close to work.
>Also, housing prices are lower than in Austin.
>It evens out.
Housing prices in Austin are dropping.
Furthermore, you can always reduce your housing costs by living
further out in places like Buda, Kyle, Dripping Springs ...
>
>> Less Educated Populace
>
>Varies greatly by area of town. The east side and poor areas drag down
>the stats for the city as a whole. There are also more immigrants. But
>the nice areas have residents who are every bit as much or more
>educated than Austin's residents. Who do you think is working in the
>Texas Medical Center and NASA?
I was talking "on average" or "as a whole."
On average, Houstonians are less educated than Austinites.
>
>> Less Scenery
>
>Really only as far as hills. In Houston, before I moved out to the
>'burbs I lived in a neighborhood with so many trees, even Austin would
>be envious.
Yes, yes, the woods in Northern Harris County are lovely. Still less
scenery IMHO.
>
>> More Billboards
>
>On freeways perhaps, but it's also a larger city.
Billboards have long been a problem in Houston. There are far too many
of them. Also, Houston has the distinction of no zoning -- so you get
fun things like business parks right inside residential areas.
>
>> etc.
>> etc.
>> etc.
>
>Such as all the big city amenities Austin lacks...
JETman <jetassoc@no-spam> wrote in message news:<3EF49231.68165339@no-spam>...
> Now, the complaint about food to me is, well sorta meaningless since it
> all ends up in the same place in twenty-four hours or so. Regarding the
> other items, the points are well taken. For instance, where do you have
> to go to see:
>
>
> A) Worldclass Theatre?
I've seen many first rate plays here in Austin, at the Zachary Scott
theatre, the Mary Moody Northen theater, etc. Are you caught up in
the fact that Austin doesn't have New York City-style theatre
buildings? See, I always thought it was the production, writing,
acting, and talent that made a play more than anything else.
> B) Worldclass Parks?
The Austin parks for the most part are beautiful, well kept, and I
think they rival any park system anywhere.
> C) Worldclass Zoo?
Never did understand why having a zoo, which tend not to attract many
people in the cities that have them, is considered a "must" for a city
to be "world class". If we had a zoo, Jet, you'd go once every 10 or
12 years. Do you really need a zoo to be happy?
> D) Worldclass Higher Education (besides UT)?
What do you mean "besides UT", for crying out loud? That's like
saying New York City doesn't have much a park, besides Central Park.
UT, as well as the other numerous colleges in and around Austin,
provide education opportunities for even the most disicriminating
students.
> E) Well Integrated Freeway System?
Seems well integrated enough for me....granted, not enough lanes (nor
are there in any large city anywhere in America), but at least we
don't have to stop every 5 or 6 miles and pay tolls to drive through
Austin, like drivers do in Chicago and elsewhere.
> F) High Speed and Frequent Intercity Rail Transport?
Thank God! Last thing Austin needs is another place for the homeless
and panhandlers to harrass citizens for money.
>
> Certainly not in Austin...
With the exception of the Zoo, Austin rates world class in every
category you mentioned. Maybe you're just a miserable kinda person,
never happy anywhere, always looking to nitpick...?
Dave A.
"mh" <mh.anti.spam.obratschk@no-spam> wrote in
message news:1qpjfvcrnomjhg6f1ouo7jq1jvuavuatr7@no-spam
> On 24 Jun 2003 20:55:09 -0700, jjp76@no-spam (jjp) wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >> Higher Crime
> >
> >For the size of the city, crime is not particularly high.
>
> Right. Truth is, you're more likely to be the vicitim of a violent
> crime in Houston than you are in Austin. Same for property crime.
Of course -- especially in the bad areas -- as expected, it's a larger
city...
> >
> >> Less Educated Populace
> >
> >Varies greatly by area of town. The east side and poor areas drag down
> >the stats for the city as a whole. There are also more immigrants. But
> >the nice areas have residents who are every bit as much or more
> >educated than Austin's residents. Who do you think is working in the
> >Texas Medical Center and NASA?
>
> I was talking "on average" or "as a whole."
I realize that, but I don't think that's a very good way of thinking about
it, especially when considering very large and diverse cities.
And I believe you could do the same comparison between Austin and College
Station, and College Station would come out on top -- because it's even more
of a college town than Austin.
> On average, Houstonians are less educated than Austinites.
On average as an entire city. But take people out of the middle to upper
class areas of either city, and they'll be about equal in education.
> >
> >> Less Scenery
> >
> >Really only as far as hills. In Houston, before I moved out to the
> >'burbs I lived in a neighborhood with so many trees, even Austin would
> >be envious.
>
> Yes, yes, the woods in Northern Harris County are lovely. Still less
> scenery IMHO.
I lived in the Memorial area, not northern Harris County. But there are lots
of trees up there too.
I agree -- you can't do much to beat hills. But at least Houston is more
scenic than Dallas and many midwestern cities.
> >> More Billboards
> >
> >On freeways perhaps, but it's also a larger city.
>
> Billboards have long been a problem in Houston. There are far too many
> of them. Also, Houston has the distinction of no zoning -- so you get
> fun things like business parks right inside residential areas.
I agree that billboards are a problem. But supposedly it's getting better.
And the metro area I live in now doesn't allow billboards -- at all.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:01:46 -0500
Dave Austin wrote:
>>A) Worldclass Theatre?
>>B) Worldclass Parks?
>>C) Worldclass Zoo?
>>D) Worldclass Higher Education (besides UT)?
>>E) Well Integrated Freeway System?
>>F) High Speed and Frequent Intercity Rail Transport?
> With the exception of the Zoo, Austin rates world class in every
> category you mentioned.
Much as I love Austin, I've got to disagree strongly. Austin
isn't world class, or even national class, in any of these
categories (except UT, which is wildly inconsistent in the
quality of its programs).
The question is, why would anyone in his right mind EXPECT
Austin to be world class in any of these? It's the 38th
largest metro center by population in the U.S. Anyone who
argues that Austin is somehow deficient by virtue of its lack
of a world class zoo had better show us first that the top 37
cities in the nation all have world class zoos. If they
don't, why should we be expected to?
spdf wrote:
> Dave Austin wrote:
>
>>> A) Worldclass Theatre?
>>> B) Worldclass Parks?
>>> C) Worldclass Zoo?
>>> D) Worldclass Higher Education (besides UT)?
>>> E) Well Integrated Freeway System?
>>> F) High Speed and Frequent Intercity Rail Transport?
>
>> With the exception of the Zoo, Austin rates world class in every
>> category you mentioned.
>
> Much as I love Austin, I've got to disagree strongly. Austin
> isn't world class, or even national class, in any of these
> categories (except UT, which is wildly inconsistent in the
> quality of its programs).
>
> The question is, why would anyone in his right mind EXPECT
> Austin to be world class in any of these? It's the 38th
> largest metro center by population in the U.S.
<snip>
Excuse me? I know it's the number 22 media market, so I think your ranking
may be a bit skewed. Source & definitions?
Cheers,
Dusty
On 25 Jun 2003 11:41:44 -0700, lonestar_libertarian@no-spam (Dave
Austin) wrote:
>JETman <jetassoc@no-spam> wrote in message news:<3EF49231.68165339@no-spam>...
>
>> Now, the complaint about food to me is, well sorta meaningless since it
>> all ends up in the same place in twenty-four hours or so. Regarding the
>> other items, the points are well taken. For instance, where do you have
>> to go to see:
>>
>>
>> A) Worldclass Theatre?
>
>I've seen many first rate plays here in Austin, at the Zachary Scott
>theatre, the Mary Moody Northen theater, etc. Are you caught up in
>the fact that Austin doesn't have New York City-style theatre
>buildings? See, I always thought it was the production, writing,
>acting, and talent that made a play more than anything else.
Nope, sorry Dave. According to Those Who Imply They're Smart, unless
it's put on in a place where you can immediately go after the show to
get a highly overpriced meal at a "Zagat-rated" restaurant, then it's
simply shit. No two ways about it.
>
>> B) Worldclass Parks?
>
>The Austin parks for the most part are beautiful, well kept, and I
>think they rival any park system anywhere.
Again, sorry Dave. According t Those Who Imply They're Smart, because
Zilker Park no longer has a train and the rest of the parks aren't
choked on the weekends by yuppie softballers, our park system here
sucks.
>
>> C) Worldclass Zoo?
>
>Never did understand why having a zoo, which tend not to attract many
>people in the cities that have them, is considered a "must" for a city
>to be "world class". If we had a zoo, Jet, you'd go once every 10 or
>12 years. Do you really need a zoo to be happy?
Not to mention that the taxpayer subsidies that would be required to
build a "world class" zoo here would make any such project an
immediate non-starter for the TWITS.
>
>> D) Worldclass Higher Education (besides UT)?
>
>What do you mean "besides UT", for crying out loud? That's like
>saying New York City doesn't have much a park, besides Central Park.
>UT, as well as the other numerous colleges in and around Austin,
>provide education opportunities for even the most disicriminating
>students.
Southwestern
Texas State U (SWT)
Two other great schools in the area. The TWITS seem to think UH is
"worldclass."
>
>> E) Well Integrated Freeway System?
>
>Seems well integrated enough for me....granted, not enough lanes (nor
>are there in any large city anywhere in America), but at least we
>don't have to stop every 5 or 6 miles and pay tolls to drive through
>Austin, like drivers do in Chicago and elsewhere.
Well, the tolls are are their way, don't worry. I can see some
legitimacy in the complaint that the freeway system here isn't "fully
integrated" -- for example, you can stay on the freeway at 183 and go
south, but you have to exit to go north.
Part of the problem is money. The TWITS don't realize that Austin has
to compete with Houston, Dallas and SA to fund their projects, and
often the "big cities" win out because they're bigger.
>
>> F) High Speed and Frequent Intercity Rail Transport?
>
>Thank God! Last thing Austin needs is another place for the homeless
>and panhandlers to harrass citizens for money.
>
>>
>> Certainly not in Austin...
>
>With the exception of the Zoo, Austin rates world class in every
>category you mentioned. Maybe you're just a miserable kinda person,
>never happy anywhere, always looking to nitpick...?
>
>Dave A.
>Likes:
>-Hill scenery
>-low cost of living
>-some friendly natives
>
>Dislikes:
>-Dragworms/homeless
>-traffic (please keep in mind that L.A. is a bigger city, Austin is
>much smaller and shouldn't have the traffic problems it does)
>-the food
>-too many topless bars
>-nightlife
>-sub-par culture
>-most of the live music sounds the same and not
>very good
>-economy not diversified
>-hillbillies in outskirts
>-street spam and litter
>-summer heat
>-severe storms
>
>
>
>Schmigula
>
>
You again , lordy.
trolling for attention again
you don't like storms, what a bore, a good storm is fun to watch roll in
too hot , your in Texas , southwest US duh yeah it s hot here
Austin is smaller so it "shouldn't have as much traffic" well I suppose if our
economy was more depressed the traffic would recede.
Hillbillies in the outskirts is a dislike.. you think maybe they should be
sequestered somewhere? or somehow eliminated? what an idiotic thing to dislike
sub-par culture and music that sounds the same...you just don't get out... we
have about 50+ theatre groups and another 20+ dance groups many more than other
texas cities of our size...we have an amazing film culture here and bands of
every ilk...world class indian music, excellent dj's , roots, third world
etc.... this is an absolutely indefensible position if you actually explore the
artists in this town.
I will be glad when your 6 months is up because your unsubstantiated complaints
are pathetic
Try going to some of the theatre productions and give an actual review
otherwise you are just blowing hot gas
"fritz"
<A
HREF="http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2001-05-11/xtra_featu
re4.html">The Austin Chronicle Features: A Life on Wheels</A>
www.motorblade.com
Birdy(Parker), Brazil(Gilliam),and Brewster McCloud(Altman)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:48:02 -0500
Dusty Rhodes wrote:
> spdf wrote:
>>It's the 38th
>>largest metro center by population in the U.S.
> Excuse me? I know it's the number 22 media market, so I think your ranking
> may be a bit skewed. Source & definitions?
www.texasfreeways.com
Allen posted a link to this site just yesterday, and that's
where I saw it.
I would make the same argument even assuming #22 instead of
#38. If you've got 22 "world class" zoos in the U.S., I don't
think that qualifies as "world class" any more.