"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1057736530.102793@no-spam
> In nz.general Redbaiter <don't@no-spam> wrote:
> > Brian Sandle says...
>
>
> > On a personal level, I have a friend who travels often. His wife
> > is left at home alone. With violent crime sky rocketing in NZ
> > thanks to socialist incompetence over the least few decades, (see
> > graphs Sensible Sentencing Web Site) he quite understandably
> > fears for her safety.
>
> In the USA guns are more free, and the murder rate is several times higher
> than here in the susceptible populaiton. Also the proportion is prison is
> much higher -- sensible sentencing?
Here the murder rate is rising. In the USA it is falling. It started to
fall faster when sentencing got tougher. Incidentally crime rates were
lower here when sentencing was tougher.
>
> A gun in the house would make him and her
> > feel a lot more secure.
>
> An idea you hope to sell to a few.
>The crim turns the gun back on its owner.
Fiction. Only true in cases such as the Boumas who locked up the gun and
therefore could not get to it in time.
>
> > Now whether I agree with his views on this or not, I say it is
> > not my place to interfere. My friend is mentally competent enough
> > to decide for himself whether to have a gun in his house. There
> > is no need at all for me or anyone else, such creeps as Helena
> > Klark especially, to intrude on his decision making process.
>
> Maybe you want us all to live in a country with many guns, but the
> average person is not sold on that.
The average person being you I suppose?
>
> The ways starting in 1984 provided the environment for people to start to
> have be at each others' throats to live.
Rubbish.
R
In nz.general Redbaiter <don't@no-spam> wrote:
> Brian Sandle says...
>>
>> In the USA guns are more free, and the murder rate is several times higher
>> than here in the susceptible populaiton. Also the proportion is prison is
>> much higher -- sensible sentencing?
> This Brian is such a tired old discredited argument I really
> don't feel like arguing the issue with you. Not that facts ever
> concern anti gun fanatics anyway.
USA has over 4 times the rate in prison that New Zealand does and over 8
times the murder rate of males from 15-24.
Somehow I don't think stiffer sentences and freer gun access are working.
International Comparisons of Homicide Rates
Males, 15-24 years of age
1988 - 1991
Homicides per 100,000 population
United States-----------------------------------------37.2
Italy---------------4.3
New Zealand-----4.2
Israel--------------3.7
Australia----------3.6
Finland------------3.3
Scotland-----------3.1
Portugal-----------2.3
Poland-------------2.0
Ireland-------------1.8
Austria-------------1.6
Spain---------------1.5
Sweden------------1.5
Norway------------1.5
Netherlands-------1.3
Denmark-----------1.3
Greece-------------1.3
Switzerland--------1.2
Germany-----------1.1
France--------------0.9
Canada-------------0.9
England/Wales----0.6
Japan---------------0.5
Sources: National Center for Health Statistics, Vital Statistics,
1991;
World Statistics Annuals, 1991 and 1992, Geneva: World Health
Organization
> The Associated Press
> http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20030406_986.html
> WASHINGTON April 6 -
[...]
> The report's other findings:
> The incarceration rate, counting state and federal prisoners sentenced to
> more than one year, was 474 for every 100,000 U.S. residents, compared with
> 472 the year before. That means 1 in every 142 U.S. residents was in prison
> or jail in mid-2002.
> Jails supervised about 738,000 people in June 2002, compared with about
> 702,000 a year earlier. Many people in jails are awaiting trials or transfer
> to other facilities, while some serve short sentences there or are housed
> there because of state prison overcrowding.
> More than 72,400 jail inmates were supervised under programs such as drug
> treatment, electronic monitoring, community service or home detention.
> About 12 percent of all black males in the United States between the ages 20
> and 39 were in prison or jail, by far the highest single group. In contrast,
> 4 percent of Hispanic males and 1.6 percent of white males in that age group
> were incarcerated.
> The number of women in federal and state prison topped 96,000, an increase
> of 1.9 percent from 2001. Men in these prisons totaled 1.3 million, up about
> 1.4 percent, and men also total about 88 percent of jail populations on a
> given day.
And this figure for USA must be a little older: still under 2 million:
Linkname: Crime & punishment. Prison reforms in UK
URL: http://stopabuse.org/prison.html
The Guardian
Wednesday February 13, 2002
England has proportionately more people in prison than China, Saudi
Arabia or Turkey, according to world prison population statistics
released by the Home Office yesterday. The figures, compiled by Roy
Walmsley, the research director of World Prison Brief Online, confirm
that England and Wales's rate of 125 inmates per 100,000 population is
the second highest in the EU, behind only Portugal. Scotland jails 120
per 100,000, and Northern Ireland 50 per 100,000. The official figure
for England and Wales hit a record 68,615 inmates last Friday. The
world prison population list, which gives details of prisoners held in
200 countries, shows that there are more than 8.75m people in prison
around the world. About half are in the US (1.93m), China (1.43m) and
Russia (0.96m). The US and Russia lock up more of their citizens than
anywhere else, with the US incarcerating 700 inmates for every 100,000
of its population and Russia 665. But while the English rate of 125
per 100,000 places it about halfway down the league table it is still
on a par with countries such as Burma (120) and Libya (125) which are
not known for their human rights record. The English rate is higher
than China (110); Saudi Arabia (45) and Turkey (110).
Linkname: Alcohol and drugs: A perspective from New Zealand
URL:
http://216.239.33.104/search?q=cache:wJ5362FgDUMJ:www.csc-scc.g
c.ca/text/pblct/forum/v13n3/v13n3a7e.pdf+zealand+population+%22
in+prison%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
As a small country of less than four million people,
New Zealand has only one national corre c t i o n s
system dealing with incarcerated and community-based
offenders and those held in custody on remand. There
are around 6,000 people incarcerated including
approximately 800 on remand and 300 women.
Which would be about 150 per 100,000 compared to USA over 700.
[...]
>> Unfortunately democracy is based on vote buying.
> No its not at all. That's merely another socialist fallacy. Today
> it is based on vote buying but with expenditure limited to
> certain items it need not be.
>>
>> Labour gets in and improves the standard of living,
> What planet are you from?
Not from the empty sales spin one that you are.
Sorry, but I really have no time to
> argue the point with people making such uninformed statements.
> then a significant
>> number of people decide they are high enough up to lord it over the
>> others, so they vote right wing.
> Good grief..
>> But eventually the standard of living
>> drops back and the Labour vote rises again.
>>
> Such an intellectual analysis I have seldom come across, I must
> say..
In nz.general Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@no-spam> wrote:
> We had gun registration here. The police wanted it scrapped because they
> believed that it did not work. It was scrapped to be replaced by licencing
> of the individual. Licencing of the individual does work. Now half-brain
> hawkins wants to revert to the registration
Revert just to registration of guns, or add it to the current owner
registration?
which did not work here and does
> not work in Canada or Britain. As for fear of gun registration; it is not
> the registration per se that gun owners fear it is the objectives of the
> lying politicians.
They both have a much lower murder rate than USA.
Alternatively we could go with the Swiss model where all males receive
military training and get an automatic rifle to keep at home.
"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1057746452.867397@no-spam
> USA has over 4 times the rate in prison that New Zealand does and over 8
> times the murder rate of males from 15-24.
>
> Somehow I don't think stiffer sentences and freer gun access are working.
>
> International Comparisons of Homicide Rates
> Males, 15-24 years of age
> 1988 - 1991
> Homicides per 100,000 population
>
> United States-----------------------------------------37.2
> Italy---------------4.3
> New Zealand-----4.2
> Israel--------------3.7
> Australia----------3.6
> Finland------------3.3
> Scotland-----------3.1
> Portugal-----------2.3
> Poland-------------2.0
> Ireland-------------1.8
> Austria-------------1.6
> Spain---------------1.5
> Sweden------------1.5
> Norway------------1.5
> Netherlands-------1.3
> Denmark-----------1.3
> Greece-------------1.3
> Switzerland--------1.2
> Germany-----------1.1
> France--------------0.9
> Canada-------------0.9
> England/Wales----0.6
> Japan---------------0.5
>
> Sources: National Center for Health Statistics, Vital Statistics,
> 1991;
> World Statistics Annuals, 1991 and 1992, Geneva: World Health
> Organization
In nz.general Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@no-spam> wrote:
> If the present trends continue the British murder rate will overtake the US
> rate within a decade. The US murder rate is pushed up by states such as New
> York which has the toughest gun laws. Vermont, which has virtually no gun
> laws has one of the lowest murder rates in the USA.
How about you post the figures this time?
geoffm <geoff_m@no-spam> wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2003 07:36:41 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
>>In the USA guns are more free, and the murder rate is several times higher
>>than here in the susceptible populaiton. Also the proportion is prison is
>>much higher -- sensible sentencing?
> Which particular area of the US were you refering to in regard to gun
> laws and murder rates?
I gave the average for the whole country.
It varies widely, with each state having their
> own laws, with local bylaws. Some areas have stricter laws than NZ,
> have complete bans on handguns and some long guns, and other
> restrictions. These include Washington DC since 1968 (higher murder
> and crime rate than Iraq war zone...), New York (since 1911),
> California, etc. These areas also have the highest crime rates...
Goodness me they must be high.
International Comparisons of Homicide Rates
Males, 15-24 years of age
1988 - 1991
Homicides per 100,000 population
United States-----------------------------------------37.2
Italy---------------4.3
1988 -1991 would be four years and 37 out of 100,000 males from 15 to 24
were murdered overall. So over 10 years from 15 to 25 you would have
2.5 x 37.2 =93 chances out of 100,000, or nearly 1 chance in 1000 of being
murdered when you are those ages.
If it is less in some states how much? Then how high do Washington & New
York have to be to make up for the lesser amount in other places?
Say families average 1.5 boys then overall one family in 600 or 700 loses
a boy to murder. What is it in Washington and New York if any of the
other states are as low as the rest of the world?
> The issue is rather more complicated than you might think, I suggest
> you refer to works by Prof John Lott, David Kleck, etc.
With about 1% in prison, many more in the younger age groups you would
have thought most of the worst types were out of the way by now.
"Roger Dewhurst"
> Is this the product of a spasm of his cerebral ganglion or is this driven
by
> the lesbian feminazis?
When are you going to stop eating the livers of infants?
"David Pears" <dpears_remove@no-spam> wrote in message
news:903ogvk2vpkk68eq7ntbikieudmclugnfd@no-spam
> On 9 Jul 2003 10:22:03 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > International Comparisons of Homicide Rates
> > Males, 15-24 years of age
> > 1988 - 1991
> > Homicides per 100,000 population
> >
> > United States-----------------------------------------37.2
> > Italy---------------4.3
> > New Zealand-----4.2
> > Israel--------------3.7
> > Australia----------3.6
> > Finland------------3.3
> > Scotland-----------3.1
> > Portugal-----------2.3
> > Poland-------------2.0
> > Ireland-------------1.8
> > Austria-------------1.6
> > Spain---------------1.5
> > Sweden------------1.5
> > Norway------------1.5
> > Netherlands-------1.3
> > Denmark-----------1.3
> > Greece-------------1.3
> > Switzerland--------1.2
> > Germany-----------1.1
> > France--------------0.9
> > Canada-------------0.9
> > England/Wales----0.6
> > Japan---------------0.5
>
> I try to stay out of threads about guns, but...
>
> Why is NZ's rate so much higher than that for England and Wales? The
> difference between us and them is about the same as the difference
> between the US and us.
>
> David
The age group used here is very selective. It nicely covers the young black
drug gangs. If the US is broken down state by state the picture looks very
different. The highest murder rates occur in states that have the strictest
gun laws, the lowest in states that have the least restrictive gun laws.
Considered city by city the highest rates occur in cities where the young
black drug culture is most evident. Have a look at this. It is not PC of
course.
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no1/jpr-taxonomic.html
R
"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1057708513.415857@no-spam
> In nz.general Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@no-spam> wrote:
> > "I intend to proceed with some form of firearm registration by means of
new
> > legislation to be introduced this year. I am of a view that the process
(of
> > gun registration), must be costeffective, easy to implement and
encourage
> > compliance. (letter from George Hawkins, Minister of Police, 17 June
2003)."
>
> > Is this the product of a spasm of his cerebral ganglion or is this
driven by
> > the lesbian feminazis?
>
> What is wrong with registering inanimate objects which may be used to
> kill?
The only ones to be inconvenienced by more gun laws are the law abiding gun
owners.
Those who like to re-enact the shoot up in the ok corral will not read the
new rules.
And how come gun shoot ups don't make the news now, there was one in West
Auckland last Friday in a chinese fast food shop, some native who thought
being asked to leave because he couldn't pay was good enough reason to
produce his shotgun and shoot everything in sight. No one was hurt.
Joy
"Alan Liefting" <aliefting@no-spam> wrote in message
news:3F0BDF6D.B542EA19@no-spam
> A law abiding citizen should have no fear of gun registration.
I am sure many people in 1930's Germany used exactly that same line of
reasoning.
NZD
"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1057751572.217514@no-spam
> In nz.general The Enforcer <a@no-spam> wrote:
> > Alternatively we could go with the Swiss model where all males receive
> > military training and get an automatic rifle to keep at home.
>
> But not as many hand guns as they wish?
Oh silly me. People never go nuts with assault rifles. *Cough* Aramoana and
Port Aurther are IIRC the worst examples of gun crime in NZ and Oz
respectively and in both cases asault rifles were used.
The bottom line is that it is the responsibility or lack thereof of the
owner that makes a firearm safe or dangerous. IMO the problem with the USA
is that ownership is a "right" rather than a "responsibility" which means
that unsuitable people can own guns and more generally they view gun
ownership less seriously.
Would the murder rate in Switzerland jump 30 times over if their assault
rifles were replaced with handguns? Please...
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:37:51 GMT, David Pears
<dpears_remove@no-spam> wrote:
>On 9 Jul 2003 10:22:03 GMT, Brian Sandle
><bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
>
>> International Comparisons of Homicide Rates
>> Males, 15-24 years of age
>> 1988 - 1991
>> Homicides per 100,000 population
>>
>> United States-----------------------------------------37.2
>> Italy---------------4.3
>> New Zealand-----4.2
>> Israel--------------3.7
>> Australia----------3.6
>> Finland------------3.3
>> Scotland-----------3.1
>> Portugal-----------2.3
>> Poland-------------2.0
>> Ireland-------------1.8
>> Austria-------------1.6
>> Spain---------------1.5
>> Sweden------------1.5
>> Norway------------1.5
>> Netherlands-------1.3
>> Denmark-----------1.3
>> Greece-------------1.3
>> Switzerland--------1.2
>> Germany-----------1.1
>> France--------------0.9
>> Canada-------------0.9
>> England/Wales----0.6
>> Japan---------------0.5
>
>I try to stay out of threads about guns, but...
And very wise too.
>
>Why is NZ's rate so much higher than that for England and Wales? The
>difference between us and them is about the same as the difference
>between the US and us.
Perhaps simple availability.
But why is Scotland's rate much higher than England/Wales also.
And why is Canada's rate so much less than the USA?
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
NZDude says...
>
> "Alan Liefting" <aliefting@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:3F0BDF6D.B542EA19@no-spam
>
> > A law abiding citizen should have no fear of gun registration.
>
> I am sure many people in 1930's Germany used exactly that same line of
> reasoning.
> NZD
>
I'm so sick of these ignorant bastards. The same kind of non-
thinking state worshipping sponge brains that allow swine like
Castro to exist, and sentence people to twenty years prison for
political dissent.
--
Redbaiter
In the leftist's lexicon, the lowest of the low
On 9 Jul 2003 11:49:18 GMT, Brian Sandle
<bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
>In nz.general Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@no-spam> wrote:
>
>> If the present trends continue the British murder rate will overtake the US
>> rate within a decade. The US murder rate is pushed up by states such as New
>> York which has the toughest gun laws. Vermont, which has virtually no gun
>> laws has one of the lowest murder rates in the USA.
>
>How about you post the figures this time?
If you download the study by Prof John Lott, the data is there,
broken down by the 4000 counties in the US.
this quote
>* Crime studies that use only state level data do not account for contrasts that exist between different counties in the same state. For example, in 1992, New York State had the 2nd highest murder rate in the nation, but it also had 13 counties which had murder rates of zero. That same year, South Dakota had the lowest murder rate in the nation, but it also had a county with a higher murder rate than New York State. To account for the differences that exist between counties, Dr. Lott used county level data. This amounted to over 54,000 observations. As of 1998, the data set used for this study is the largest ever used in a gun control or crime study of any kind. (7)
from is of interest.
G
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:25:01 +1200, Alan Liefting
<aliefting@no-spam> wrote:
>
>
>Roger Dewhurst wrote:
>>
>> "I intend to proceed with some form of firearm registration by means of new
>> legislation to be introduced this year. I am of a view that the process (of
>> gun registration), must be costeffective, easy to implement and encourage
>> compliance. (letter from George Hawkins, Minister of Police, 17 June 2003)."
>>
>> Is this the product of a spasm of his cerebral ganglion or is this driven by
>> the lesbian feminazis?
>>
>> R
>
>I am not an expert on this matter but I would like to see automatic and
>possibly semi automatic weapons made illegal. They are not required for
>hunting. If they are I would not call the owner a sportsman.
>
>A law abiding citizen should have no fear of gun registration.
Given we have had confiscation 4 times in since 1920 in New Zeland, I
suspect you are wildly optimistic.
Geoff
On 9 Jul 2003 12:13:25 GMT, Brian Sandle
<bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
RE: murder rates varying by state, city, etc
>Goodness me they must be high.
I can't find the data I was looking for, but:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153988.stm
dateline 1998
Wednesday, August 19, 1998 Published at 12:55 GMT 13:55 UK
The United States of murder
Washington DC heads the homicide poll
Washington DC has come top in a poll of the world's murder capitals.
A survey conducted by the UK Home Office of 20 European and nine North
American cities put the US capital way out in front with a murder rate
of 69.3 per 100,000 population.
That suggests Washington is about 170 times more dangerous than the
Belgian capital, Brussels, which came bottom with 0.4 murders per
100,000.
Washington was a long way ahead of the second most murderous city,
Philadelphia, which had a rate of 27.4.
The nine American cities in the survey all came in the top 12 of the
poll. San Diego had the lowest rate with 8 homicides per 100,000.
Only three European cities came out worse.
Dangerous city
Moscow, contending with the rise of the Russian mafia after the
collapse of the Soviet Union, was the most dangerous European city in
the survey with 18.1 killings per 100,000. Helsinki and Lisbon also
ranked highly.
London came fifth from bottom with an average of 2.1 cases of murder,
infanticide or manslaughter per 100,000.
Belfast was the most dangerous UK city in the survey with a death rate
of 4.4. Edinburgh's figure was 2.4.
The UK Home Secretary, Jack Straw, said it was one league table in
which the UK was happy to fall near the bottom.
He said: "Few people would have guessed that both Amsterdam (7.7) and
Lisbon (9.7) have murder rates over three times higher than that of
London.
"Moreover despite the impact of zero tolerance policies, New York
City's homicide rate - at 16.8 - is eight times London's
On 9 Jul 2003 12:13:25 GMT, Brian Sandle
<bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
RE: murder rates varying by state, city, etc
>Goodness me they must be high.
Further to this
http://www.ssaa.org.au/ILA/Mar97.html
G
geoffm <geoff_m@no-spam> wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2003 12:13:25 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
> RE: murder rates varying by state, city, etc
>>Goodness me they must be high.
> Further to this
> http://www.ssaa.org.au/ILA/Mar97.html
> G
That does not give sources.
It compares USA states against Northern Territory in 1997 when
people had been travelling there for euthanasia.
Same, it does not distinguish between euthanasia and other murder in
the Netherlands.
"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1057832826.947548@no-spam
> geoffm <geoff_m@no-spam> wrote:
> > On 9 Jul 2003 12:13:25 GMT, Brian Sandle
> > <bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
> > RE: murder rates varying by state, city, etc
> >>Goodness me they must be high.
> > Further to this
> > http://www.ssaa.org.au/ILA/Mar97.html
> > G
>
> That does not give sources.
>
> It compares USA states against Northern Territory in 1997 when
> people had been travelling there for euthanasia.
>
> Same, it does not distinguish between euthanasia and other murder in
> the Netherlands.
By Jon Dougherty
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com
Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United
States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new
international study says that America's former master -- Great Britain --
has much higher levels of crime.
The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in
Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime
among industrialized nations.
Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the
population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list
with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.
The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized
nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of
victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most
categories of crime."
Highlights of the study indicated that:
a.. The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in
England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United
States and 0.4 percent in Japan.
b.. Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest
recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher
rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the
U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;
c.. "After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of
crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24
percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the
middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London
Telegraph said.
d.. England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent
of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent
in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among
the "top 10" nations.
e.. The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4
percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was
second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.
Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates --
just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish
Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.
Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other
industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control
laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.
Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence
website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a
much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers
in 1996.
"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia
actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a
Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.
"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder,
assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last
for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a
firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.
However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime
victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988,
to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.
Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates
was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note
that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary
(3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall
victimization (about 31 percent).
Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).
In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun
ban, violent crime had increased in the country.
WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban
promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different
story:
a.. Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
b.. Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
c.. Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
d.. In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300
percent.
e.. In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been
dropping steadily.
f.. There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and
assaults on the elderly.
"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1057724073.36409@no-spam
> In nz.general Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@no-spam> took to being abusive
> rather than arguing the issues:
>
> > "Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:1057715668.286489@no-spam
> >> In nz.general Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@no-spam> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "The Enforcer" <a@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:befohk$8av$1@no-spam
> >> >> "Brian Sandle" <bsandle@no-spam> wrote in message
> > If someone is intent on suicide they will do it with a gun or otherwise.
>
> The attempt with a gun is much more lethal. Men, having guns more for one
> thing, are more `successful' at suicide than women.
Women may be more inclined to pretend.
>
>
> I thought we all had to register our address for the electoral roll.
Perhaps so. But there is no penalty applied for not doing so and there is
no requirement to do so until just before an election.
>
> >>
> >> Guns are vastly more lethal, especially at a distance of a few meters.
>
> > Guns are not more lethal. They do nothing until a person picks one up
and
> > uses it.
>
> And knives and bricks do?
Similarly.
>
> > What then is the cretin's view of the 'real problem'?
>
> The actual deaths. They are so frequent, and the only news value is when
> they are not solved, or some quirk about them.
Perhaps you would provide a number for these 'so frequent' deaths caused by
licenced gun owners.
>
> No, but unless teh police know how many guns a registered owner has how
> can they know whetehr he is forgetful when he says they are all accounted
> for?
Gun owners are most unlikely to forget how many guns they own. And since
all the guns are required to be kept in a locked 'robust' case affixed
securely to the wall an owner is unlikely not to notice when one or more
have been removed.
>
> > Actually, if the plod want to do this they would find it easier to look
up
> > the current names and addresses of presently licenced gun owners.
>
> I suppose they need that, too.
Drivel snipped.
They have that information.
> On finding
> > it the police would then be able to match up the identification number
and
> > description provided by the owner with that of the gun itself. Problem
> > solved.
>
> Doesn't that mean registration of the gun?
No.
>
> Gun and gun owner matched up! It is not quite as simple when the
> > aforesaid beastly, dangerous, non PC object has been in the possession
of
> > the Mongrel Mob who filed the serial number off and sawed a few inches
off
> > the barrel as soon as possible after they stole it. I do not think that
a
> > member of the Mongrel Mob would politely visit the local ploddery in
order
> > to report the loss of this serial number removed, barrel shortened,
stolen
> > gun. You might think otherwise. Indeed you are entitled to whatever
you
> > might consider to pass as your viewpoint.
>
> If the police have good reason to believe in the existence of unregistered
> weapons they can get a search warrant and confiscate any not registered.
> It stops huge caches being around without anyone knowing, which can happen
> at the moment, legally, can't it?
They can do that now and sometimes do. Sometimes they find caches of
weapons held by the Mongrel Mob and others of their ilk. Compulsory
registration will not cause the Mongrel Mob to register stolen weapons.
R
"geoffm" <geoff_m@no-spam> wrote in message
news:2q9qgv84o2uu6b2m3e1s1jh1ceddgkld9t@no-spam
> On 9 Jul 2003 11:49:18 GMT, Brian Sandle
> <bsandle@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >In nz.general Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@no-spam> wrote:
> >
> >> If the present trends continue the British murder rate will overtake
the US
> >> rate within a decade. The US murder rate is pushed up by states such
as New
> >> York which has the toughest gun laws. Vermont, which has virtually no
gun
> >> laws has one of the lowest murder rates in the USA.
> >
> >How about you post the figures this time?
> If you download the study by Prof John Lott, the data is there,
> broken down by the 4000 counties in the US.
> this quote
> >* Crime studies that use only state level data do not account for
contrasts that exist between different counties in the same state. For
example, in 1992, New York State had the 2nd highest murder rate in the
nation, but it also had 13 counties which had murder rates of zero. That
same year, South Dakota had the lowest murder rate in the nation, but it
also had a county with a higher murder rate than New York State. To account
for the differences that exist between counties, Dr. Lott used county level
data. This amounted to over 54,000 observations. As of 1998, the data set
used for this study is the largest ever used in a gun control or crime study
of any kind. (7)
> from is of interest.
> G
By Jon Dougherty
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com
Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United
States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new
international study says that America's former master -- Great Britain --
has much higher levels of crime.
The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in
Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime
among industrialized nations.
Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the
population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list
with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.
The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized
nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of
victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most
categories of crime."
Highlights of the study indicated that:
a.. The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in
England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United
States and 0.4 percent in Japan.
b.. Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest
recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher
rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the
U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;
c.. "After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of
crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24
percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the
middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London
Telegraph said.
d.. England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent
of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent
in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among
the "top 10" nations.
e.. The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4
percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was
second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.
Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates --
just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish
Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.
Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other
industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control
laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.
Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence
website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a
much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers
in 1996.
"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia
actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a
Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.
"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder,
assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last
for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a
firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.
However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime
victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988,
to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.
Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates
was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note
that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary
(3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall
victimization (about 31 percent).
Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).
In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun
ban, violent crime had increased in the country.
WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban
promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different
story:
a.. Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
b.. Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
c.. Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
d.. In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300
percent.
e.. In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been
dropping steadily.
f.. There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and
assaults on the elderly.