OR POLITICS 13 RE THE UNITED NATIONS
From: "alohacyberian" (alohacyberian@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:56:01 GMT


"Mike Pearson <see .sig>" <nojunk@no-spam> wrote in message news:1fx9o7f.a20eoi1nmy4xsN%nojunk@no-spam > alohacyberian <alohacyberian@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > Good stuff! Thanks, that's a keeper! The history (though I snipped it)
is > > interesting and informative - a breath of fresh air among completely > > unfounded charges and invidious invective!
>
> For example, the person who was commander of the 174th at that time has > stated that they *were* flying F-102's for at least a year after GW was > finally handed his discharge; they flew them for the entire time that he > was assigned to that unit, and well beyond. (See the Boston Globe > article; it's one of the few that was actually published about the > ghuy's service record, and came out shortly before the press was >
Like I'd take the word of a reporter from the Boston Globe who's never been in the military over the words of the men in the military who served with and supervised George W. Bush. Give it up, I'm going to judge the candidates in the next election by what they can do to help the country now. And because I'm not a Democrat, I don't accept their "congenital pessimism" [~"Time"
magazine, May 19, 2003, page 31] and will vote with a different filter. KM
"I am an optimist rather than a pessimist. It is possible that the pessimists may be proven right in the long run, but we optimists have a better time on the trip."
~ William Everitt -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/


From: "WinGuru" (anonymous)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:55:55 -0700

"alohacyberian" <alohacyberian@no-spam> wrote in message news:BQxLa.27494$0v4.2074385@no-spam > "Mike Pearson <see .sig>" <nojunk@no-spam> wrote in message > news:1fx9o7f.a20eoi1nmy4xsN%nojunk@no-spam > > alohacyberian <alohacyberian@no-spam> wrote:
> >
> > > Good stuff! Thanks, that's a keeper! The history (though I snipped it)
> is > > > interesting and informative - a breath of fresh air among completely > > > unfounded charges and invidious invective!
> >
> > For example, the person who was commander of the 174th at that time has > > stated that they *were* flying F-102's for at least a year after GW was > > finally handed his discharge; they flew them for the entire time that he > > was assigned to that unit, and well beyond. (See the Boston Globe > > article; it's one of the few that was actually published about the > > ghuy's service record, and came out shortly before the press was > >
> Like I'd take the word of a reporter from the Boston Globe who's never been > in the military over the words of the men in the military who served with and > supervised George W. Bush. Give it up, I'm going to judge the candidates in > the next election by what they can do to help the country now. And because > I'm not a Democrat, I don't accept their "congenital pessimism" [~"Time"
> magazine, May 19, 2003, page 31] and will vote with a different filter.
KM
Good, then you won't have ANY problem with the statements from these military officers that Bush was not present for duty, never showed up, can't recall ever seeing him at drill, were flying the F-102's for at least a year after GW finagled his discharge.

In any event, you talk about "... what they can do to help the country now."
By that standard, you should be calling for the immediate impeachment of Bush. You know the facts - millions more unemployed, millions of jobs lost,
retirement savings wiped out, health care costs rising through the roof,
degrading infrastructure, declining quality in schools, rising taxes for most Americans, increasing partisan strife by the GOP, worsening environment, US citizens getting killed in a stunt designed to boost the GOPs ratings during a mid-term election and yield massive profits for Bush and his friends, worsening national security, massive loss of civil liberties and privacy rights ... Can you honestly name and demonstrate even one national issue or concern that has ACTUALLY improved under Bush?


From: nobody (nobody@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 03:23:01 GMT

In article <1fxdch4.2sz2uyhesc2oN%nojunk@no-spam>,
nojunk@no-spam (Mike Pearson <see .sig>) wrote:

> Bill Shatzer <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote:
> > > Thus giving Gore a plurality but NOT a majority.
> > > > The defenders of our appointed president never tire of carping about this > > little detail.
> > > > Which doesn't obviate the fact that dubya was appointed and not > > elected.
> > > > Generally, we suppose that appointed presidents are mostly found > > in Botswanaland and similar African locales which decline to Just > > Count All The Votes.
> > > > Not so.
> > > > Peace and justice,
> > Ah, yes...thank you. In neglecting to count anything but the Bush/Gore > votes I fell into his semantic trap.
> > None of his weasel-wording, however, changes the fact that the person > who got over 1/2 million more votes lost the election.

The only one who got a majority of votes in 2000 was President Bush. Get over it.


From: "alohacyberian" (alohacyberian@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:18:39 GMT

"Mike Pearson <see .sig>" <nojunk@no-spam> wrote in message news:1fxdch4.2sz2uyhesc2oN%nojunk@no-spam > Bill Shatzer <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote:
> > Generally, we suppose that appointed presidents are mostly found > > in Botswanaland and similar African locales which decline to Just > > Count All The Votes.
>
> None of his weasel-wording, however, changes the fact that the person > who got over 1/2 million more votes lost the election. Even third-world > republics aren't usually that blatant about it...
>

Too bad you don't understand the laws of the United States, particularly those regarding the Electoral College. The popular vote counts are meaningless in the United States and always have been, the Electoral College picks the winner in presidential elections. Don't blame Bush for the Electoral College system - it was instituted before he or his father was born. If you don't like it, stop wasting your energy on Bush-bashing and start working to eliminate the Electoral College. Hillary Clinton said she'd help you - and God knows, you need all the help you can get. Yes, Gore got the most popular votes, but, in the United States, that counts for absolutely nothing. So quitcher whining - it's meaningless. KM -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/


From: "alohacyberian" (alohacyberian@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:18:40 GMT

"nobody" <nobody@no-spam> wrote in message news:nobody-E5F1F7.23244730062003@no-spam > In article <1fxdch4.2sz2uyhesc2oN%nojunk@no-spam>,
> nojunk@no-spam (Mike Pearson <see .sig>) wrote:
> > Bill Shatzer <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote:
>
> The only one who got a majority of votes in 2000 was President Bush.
> Get over it.
>
Maybe Gore will come back and win the next election. Do you think that will silence the malcontents? KM -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/


From: "Martin W. Smith" (mws@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:12:58 +0200

Yin Duo Lai wrote:
>
> Seeking to learn informations on american government system.
> > Is colleges that elects available for graduate student to study at ?f
No. The elctoral college isn't a university. It's a group of people.

martin
-- Martin Smith email: mws@no-spam Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303
1327 Lysaker, Norway

From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:17:22 -0700

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"nobody" <nobody@no-spam> wrote in message news:nobody-E5F1F7.23244730062003@no-spam > In article <1fxdch4.2sz2uyhesc2oN%nojunk@no-spam>,
> nojunk@no-spam (Mike Pearson <see .sig>) wrote:
>
> > Bill Shatzer <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote:
> >
> > > Thus giving Gore a plurality but NOT a majority.
> > >
> > > The defenders of our appointed president never tire of carping about this > > > little detail.
> > >
> > > Which doesn't obviate the fact that dubya was appointed and not > > > elected.
> > >
> > > Generally, we suppose that appointed presidents are mostly found > > > in Botswanaland and similar African locales which decline to Just > > > Count All The Votes.
> > >
> > > Not so.
> > >
> > > Peace and justice,
> >
> > Ah, yes...thank you. In neglecting to count anything but the Bush/Gore > > votes I fell into his semantic trap.
> >
> > None of his weasel-wording, however, changes the fact that the person > > who got over 1/2 million more votes lost the election.
>
>
> The only one who got a majority of votes in 2000 was President Bush.
> Get over it.

But not a majority of the vote of the people nor a majority of the peoples'
duly elected representatives. Have you learned nothing from history?


From: nobody (nobody@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 02:00:05 GMT

In article <vg39g4ii5cv418@no-spam>,
"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote:

> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "nobody" <nobody@no-spam> wrote in message > news:nobody-E5F1F7.23244730062003@no-spam > > In article <1fxdch4.2sz2uyhesc2oN%nojunk@no-spam>,
> > nojunk@no-spam (Mike Pearson <see .sig>) wrote:
> >
> > > Bill Shatzer <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thus giving Gore a plurality but NOT a majority.
> > > >
> > > > The defenders of our appointed president never tire of carping about > this > > > > little detail.
> > > >
> > > > Which doesn't obviate the fact that dubya was appointed and not > > > > elected.
> > > >
> > > > Generally, we suppose that appointed presidents are mostly found > > > > in Botswanaland and similar African locales which decline to Just > > > > Count All The Votes.
> > > >
> > > > Not so.
> > > >
> > > > Peace and justice,
> > >
> > > Ah, yes...thank you. In neglecting to count anything but the Bush/Gore > > > votes I fell into his semantic trap.
> > >
> > > None of his weasel-wording, however, changes the fact that the person > > > who got over 1/2 million more votes lost the election.
> >
> >
> > The only one who got a majority of votes in 2000 was President Bush.
> > Get over it.
> > But not a majority of the vote of the people nor a majority of the peoples'
> duly elected representatives.

Wrong, in fact 271 to 266 wrong.


From: "alohacyberian" (alohacyberian@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:49:58 GMT

"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0307010107190.18661-100000@no-spam > On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, alohacyberian wrote:
>
> > the Electoral College > > picks the winner in presidential elections.
>
> Previous to 2000, we used to let the actual -voters- make that > selection.
>

No, you are living in the dreamworld of selective fantasy. The Electoral College has always selected the president. The United States Supreme Court merely confirmed the Electoral College selection. Bush got more votes in Florida than did Gore. Gore conceded defeat. End of story. KM -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/


From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:13:40 -0700

alohacyberian wrote:

> No, you are living in the dreamworld of selective fantasy.
> The Electoral College has always selected the president.

No, the Electoral College merely reports (reflects)
the majority vote in their respective states.
Each candidate has his or her own slate of electors chosen by their own parties so it's not like each state has only one set of electors who might throw their votes in any direction. When Gore got a majority in oregon, for example, the seven or so electors chosen by the state Democratic Party became THE electors who would report the vote (or cast if if you wish).

We could easily get rid of the electors themselves and keep the points each state is worth.

Bob T

From: "alohacyberian" (alohacyberian@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:45:01 GMT

"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.53MAILDIR.0307021009420.5807@no-spam > alohacyberian wrote:
>
> > No, you are living in the dreamworld of selective fantasy.
> > The Electoral College has always selected the president.
>
> No, the Electoral College merely reports (reflects)
> the majority vote in their respective states.
> Each candidate has his or her own slate of > electors chosen by their own parties so it's > not like each state has only one set of > electors who might throw their votes in > any direction. When Gore got a majority > in oregon, for example, the seven or so > electors chosen by the state Democratic > Party became THE electors who would report > the vote (or cast if if you wish).
>
> We could easily get rid of the electors > themselves and keep the points each > state is worth.
> Bob T >
No, I'm not going to accept the word "report". They cast ballots and in most states they are not bound by law to support the winner of the popular vote.
Any given Elector can vote for any candidate they want to, though this has rarely, if ever, been done. KM -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/


From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:52:29 -0700

alohacyberian wrote:

> "Bob Tiernan" wrote:

> > No, the Electoral College merely reports (reflects)
> > the majority vote in their respective states.
> > Each candidate has his or her own slate of > > electors chosen by their own parties so it's > > not like each state has only one set of > > electors who might throw their votes in > > any direction. When Gore got a majority > > in oregon, for example, the seven or so > > electors chosen by the state Democratic > > Party became THE electors who would report > > the vote (or cast if if you wish).
> >
> > We could easily get rid of the electors > > themselves and keep the points each > > state is worth.

> No, I'm not going to accept the word "report".

Yes you will. You'll sit down and accept it.

> They cast ballots and in most states they are not > bound by law to support the winner of the popular > vote.

They are in most states, or nearly all of them so far as I know. That's why the news headlines morning after election day say "Clinton Wins"
or something like that depending on what year you're talking about, because it's a no-brainer that the Electors will report the obvious.

> Any given Elector can vote for any candidate > they want to, though this has rarely, if ever,
> been done.

This is not true. Maybe many decades ago.
Not in recent times. Look, the parties themselves choose their Electors. So when Gore won the popular vote in Oregon in 2000
there were seven Democrat Party members already chosen as Electors who were then THE official Electors (the Electors of the Republican, Libertarian, Pacific,
Constitution, and other parties now having to wait another four years for another chance). Even if they were allowed to vote for anyone they wanted, why would they? They're dedicated to the candidate of their party. That's why they're chosen.

Bob Tiernan
"NOW is able to overlook wife-beating and murder in the case of someone who's a role model for young black men and the sexual exploitation of subordinates in the case of someone who can help the organization politically and financially."

-- Tammy Bruce Past President Now (Los Angeles Chapter)
From: "The New Thought Police: Inside the Left's Assault on Free Speech and Free Minds"


From: "Martin W. Smith" (mws@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:58:26 +0200

Bob Tiernan wrote:
> Even if they were allowed > to vote for anyone they wanted, why > would they?
Because, if the popular vote is won by a certain candidate, then the will of the people is for that candidate to be President. Therefore, the ethical vote is for the winner of the popular vote. To vote otherwise might mean that another candidate, whose Presidency is *not* the will of the people, might become President. Wait a minute. That's what happened.

martin
-- Martin Smith email: mws@no-spam Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303
1327 Lysaker, Norway

From: "alohacyberian" (alohacyberian@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 04:52:02 GMT

"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.53MAILDIR.0307040344160.28297@no-spam > alohacyberian wrote:
>
> > No, I'm not going to accept the word "report".
>
> Yes you will. You'll sit down and accept it.
>

Do tell? Guess again. KM -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/


From: "alohacyberian" (alohacyberian@no-spam)
Subject: Re: The United Nations
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 04:52:05 GMT

"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.53MAILDIR.0307040344160.28297@no-spam > alohacyberian wrote:
> > "Bob Tiernan" wrote:
> Even if they were allowed > to vote for anyone they wanted, why > would they? They're dedicated to the > candidate of their party. That's why > they're chosen.
>
You mean like Earl Warren? Or John Connolly? Or Strom Thurmond? Or Ronald Reagan? Or Henry Kissinger? KM -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and more: http://keith.martin.home.att.net/