OR POLITICS 7 RE OREGON GAS
From: Russell Senior (seniorr@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: 28 Jun 2003 13:27:48 -0700


>>>>> "Bill" == Bill Chevek <billsworld@no-spam> writes:

Bill> I love this state but I have a serious problem with the gas Bill> prices, the gas taxes, and the no-pump policy. Why is it that Bill> every year a bill that would fix these problems gets held up in Bill> the state government by nitwits who don't even have to put gas Bill> in their cars anymore? And why is it that gas prices here are Bill> more expensive than anywhere else? Probably because of the extra Bill> employees that gas stations have to have and the high gasoline Bill> taxes.

Bill> So why can't we put it up to a vote? I'd bet Oregon would Bill> overwhelmingly vote for a law that let us have self-serve AND Bill> gave us some of the lowest gas prices in the country by lowering Bill> taxes and letting station owners decide what their customers Bill> preferred rather than the state.

Read these for a backgrounder:

<http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=oregon%20self-service%20gas&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=or.*&lr=&num=100&as_scoring=d&hl=en>


-- Russell Senior ``shtal latta wos ba padre u prett tu nashtonfi seniorr@no-spam mrlosh'' -- Bashgali Kafir for ``If you have had diarrhoea many days you will surely die.''


From: Joni Rathbun (jrathbun@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Bill Chevek wrote:

> I love this state but I have a serious problem with the gas prices, the gas > taxes, and the no-pump policy. Why is it that every year a bill that would > fix these problems gets held up in the state government by nitwits who don't > even have to put gas in their cars anymore? And why is it that gas prices > here are more expensive than anywhere else? Probably because of the extra > employees that gas stations have to have and the high gasoline taxes.
>
> So why can't we put it up to a vote? I'd bet Oregon would overwhelmingly > vote for a law that let us have self-serve AND gave us some of the lowest > gas prices in the country by lowering taxes and letting station owners > decide what their customers preferred rather than the state.
>
>

What are the gas prices there right now?


From: usenetMYSHOES@no-spam (Andrew)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: 28 Jun 2003 22:21:35 GMT

In alt.culture.oregon Bill Chevek <billsworld@no-spam> wrote:
: I love this state but I have a serious problem with the gas prices, the gas : taxes, and the no-pump policy. Why is it that every year a bill that would : fix these problems gets held up in the state government by nitwits who don't : even have to put gas in their cars anymore? And why is it that gas prices : here are more expensive than anywhere else?

Well, perhaps because they aren't? California's prices are consistenly higher than Oregon's. In Pennsylvania recently, prices weren't much lower than Oregon's - not enough to complain about.

: Probably because of the extra : employees that gas stations have to have and the high gasoline taxes.

Gas prices besides taxes vary due to regional supply and local refinery demands. California requires additional proccessing that raises their prices.
: So why can't we put it up to a vote? I'd bet Oregon would overwhelmingly : vote for a law that let us have self-serve AND gave us some of the lowest : gas prices in the country by lowering taxes and letting station owners : decide what their customers preferred rather than the state.

I would vote for a ballot initiative that still required stations to pump your gas for you but allowed people to pump it on their own if they wished. I'm not hung up on the few extra cents a gallon it seems to cost to pay people to pump it - what I object to is the loss my freedom to pump the gas if I wish. Once in a while I like having it pumped for me, but most of the time I'd prefer to pay at the pump,
pump it, and get out of there.

Andrew --
----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
*******************************************************************
----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address *******************************************************************


From: "Bill Chevek" (billsworld@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 01:24:02 GMT

"Joni Rathbun" <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0306281336480.28646-100000@no-spam >
>
>
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Bill Chevek wrote:
>
> > I love this state but I have a serious problem with the gas prices, the gas > > taxes, and the no-pump policy. Why is it that every year a bill that would > > fix these problems gets held up in the state government by nitwits who don't > > even have to put gas in their cars anymore? And why is it that gas prices > > here are more expensive than anywhere else? Probably because of the extra > > employees that gas stations have to have and the high gasoline taxes.
> >
> > So why can't we put it up to a vote? I'd bet Oregon would overwhelmingly > > vote for a law that let us have self-serve AND gave us some of the lowest > > gas prices in the country by lowering taxes and letting station owners > > decide what their customers preferred rather than the state.
> >
> >
>
> What are the gas prices there right now?

Right now only California and Nevada have higher gas prices than Oregon west of the Missisiisiissiissiisisiisisisppipi river. You can check prices easily here at this site:

http://www.gasbuddy.com/


From: Larry Caldwell (larryc@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 03:07:42 GMT

jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) writes: > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700, Joni Rathbun > <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote:

> >What are the gas prices there right now?
> > Portland Metro area is running at about the same prices that we saw in > our loop through Utah and Nevada a couple of weeks ago, including Las > Vegas. I paid $1.65/gal for Chevron in Corvallis (proper, not on I-5)
> today.
$1.629 at the 76 at the Brownsville exit on Wednesday. $1.549 in Roseburg at the discount stations.
-- http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:04:57 GMT
From: "Jon" (jon@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas

"Larry Caldwell" <larryc@no-spam> wrote in message news:MPG.1967f893b0b3a075989795@no-spam > jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) writes:
> > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700, Joni Rathbun > > <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > >What are the gas prices there right now?
> >
> > Portland Metro area is running at about the same prices that we saw in > > our loop through Utah and Nevada a couple of weeks ago, including Las > > Vegas. I paid $1.65/gal for Chevron in Corvallis (proper, not on I-5)
> > today.
>
> $1.629 at the 76 at the Brownsville exit on Wednesday. $1.549 in > Roseburg at the discount stations.
>

I work in Brooks, just north of Salem. Gas there is $1.57. Right off I5.

>
> --
> http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

From: clw@no-spam
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:28:47 -0700

In article <MPG.1967f893b0b3a075989795@no-spam>,
Larry Caldwell <larryc@no-spam> wrote:

> jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) writes: > > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700, Joni Rathbun > > <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote:
> > > >What are the gas prices there right now?
> > > > Portland Metro area is running at about the same prices that we saw in > > our loop through Utah and Nevada a couple of weeks ago, including Las > > Vegas. I paid $1.65/gal for Chevron in Corvallis (proper, not on I-5)
> > today. > > $1.629 at the 76 at the Brownsville exit on Wednesday. $1.549 in > Roseburg at the discount stations.

1.59 at Arco at intersection of Allen and Lombard in Beaverton this pm.


From: "David" (asphunter@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:35:17 -0700

ummm first off.. we have lower gas prices then Both California and Washington.. there self serv... 2nd of all this has been put ot a vote umm almost 8times.. and lost each time.. the majority of the people dont want to spend the same for gas and have to pump it.. sides... with our gas lower then many many self serv states like cali and washingtion.. i dont mind helping keep emplyment and not putting 1000's of people out of work "Bill Chevek" <billsworld@no-spam> wrote in message news:GUlLa.9761$aD.1999@no-spam > I love this state but I have a serious problem with the gas prices, the gas > taxes, and the no-pump policy. Why is it that every year a bill that would > fix these problems gets held up in the state government by nitwits who don't > even have to put gas in their cars anymore? And why is it that gas prices > here are more expensive than anywhere else? Probably because of the extra > employees that gas stations have to have and the high gasoline taxes.
>
> So why can't we put it up to a vote? I'd bet Oregon would overwhelmingly > vote for a law that let us have self-serve AND gave us some of the lowest > gas prices in the country by lowering taxes and letting station owners > decide what their customers preferred rather than the state.
>
>


From: Joni Rathbun (jrathbun@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:59:44 -0700

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Larry Caldwell wrote:

> jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) writes:
> > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700, Joni Rathbun > > <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > >What are the gas prices there right now?
> >
> > Portland Metro area is running at about the same prices that we saw in > > our loop through Utah and Nevada a couple of weeks ago, including Las > > Vegas. I paid $1.65/gal for Chevron in Corvallis (proper, not on I-5)
> > today.
>
> $1.629 at the 76 at the Brownsville exit on Wednesday. $1.549 in > Roseburg at the discount stations.
>
>

Yes, you're right about Las Vegas. $1.65 is probably the average. I'm still seeing $1.70 on many suburban corners but it's $1.63 not far from the house.

I'd have to drive about 8 miles to get to the nearest station where one can get service. I don't do it. I swipe my debit card and go and run thru the car wash now and then.

I do miss full serve but as others have suggested, I'd prefer having a choice.


From: usenetMYSHOES@no-spam (Andrew)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: 29 Jun 2003 15:08:30 GMT

In alt.culture.oregon David <asphunter@no-spam> wrote:
: ummm first off.. we have lower gas prices then Both California and : Washington..

No, not Washington. If you live in Portland, gas prices in Vancouver are almost always at least a few cents lower than Portland's. At worst they are the same price, but I have seen that only a few times.
To compare prices, you need to compare the cheapest prices in Portland with the cheapest in Vancouver, not just compare two random gas stations. The truck stop stations off I-84 in Troutdale seems to be the lowest in the Portland area. A few weeks ago, I found gas in Vancouver 5 cents a gallon cheaper than those two stations in Troutdale.
Andrew --
----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
*******************************************************************
----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address *******************************************************************


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:00:18 -0700

--
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Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

<clw@no-spam> wrote in message news:clw-AD75E7.21284728062003@no-spam > In article <MPG.1967f893b0b3a075989795@no-spam>,
> Larry Caldwell <larryc@no-spam> wrote:
>
> > jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) writes:
> > > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700, Joni Rathbun > > > <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote:
> >
> > > >What are the gas prices there right now?
> > >
> > > Portland Metro area is running at about the same prices that we saw in > > > our loop through Utah and Nevada a couple of weeks ago, including Las > > > Vegas. I paid $1.65/gal for Chevron in Corvallis (proper, not on I-5)
> > > today.
> >
> > $1.629 at the 76 at the Brownsville exit on Wednesday. $1.549 in > > Roseburg at the discount stations.
>
> 1.59 at Arco at intersection of Allen and Lombard in Beaverton this pm.

1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.


From: jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 18:56:45 GMT

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 01:24:02 GMT, "Bill Chevek" <billsworld@no-spam>
wrote:

snip
>Right now only California and Nevada have higher gas prices than Oregon west >of the Missisiisiissiissiisisiisisisppipi river. You can check prices easily >here at this site:

Doesn't hold for actual experience driving I-15 in Utah.

jrw

From: "Dave Thompson" (dav13795@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:27:26 -0700

> <clw@no-spam> wrote in message > news:clw-AD75E7.21284728062003@no-spam > > In article <MPG.1967f893b0b3a075989795@no-spam>,
> > Larry Caldwell <larryc@no-spam> wrote:
> >
> > > jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) writes:
> > > > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700, Joni Rathbun > > > > <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >What are the gas prices there right now?
> > > >
> > > > Portland Metro area is running at about the same prices that we saw in > > > > our loop through Utah and Nevada a couple of weeks ago, including Las > > > > Vegas. I paid $1.65/gal for Chevron in Corvallis (proper, not on I-5)
> > > > today.
> > >
> > > $1.629 at the 76 at the Brownsville exit on Wednesday. $1.549 in > > > Roseburg at the discount stations.
> >
> > 1.59 at Arco at intersection of Allen and Lombard in Beaverton this pm.
>
> 1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.

Average price for Oregon is $1.60, average price for Washington is $1.50.


From: Paul Johnson (baloo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:55:19 -0700

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The 29 Jun 2003 15:08:30 GMT, Andrew <usenetMYSHOES@no-spam> wrote:
> No, not Washington. If you live in Portland, gas prices in Vancouver > are almost always at least a few cents lower than Portland's.
And if you've ever driven past about 15 miles from the border, you'd notice that these savings are exclusive to the border towns to Oregon.

- -- .''`. Baloo Ursidae <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user `. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From: usenetMYSHOES@no-spam (Andrew)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: 30 Jun 2003 02:09:20 GMT

In alt.culture.oregon Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam> wrote:
: The 29 Jun 2003 15:08:30 GMT, Andrew <usenetMYSHOES@no-spam> wrote:
:> No, not Washington. If you live in Portland, gas prices in Vancouver :> are almost always at least a few cents lower than Portland's.
: And if you've ever driven past about 15 miles from the border, you'd : notice that these savings are exclusive to the border towns to Oregon.

Just as when you insisted repeatedly that "Hawthorne Blvd" was spelled without an 'e", you are simply wrong again. Gas prices are cheaper in other parts of Washington than in Oregon, more than just border towns. I have observed this driving from Portland to Seattle - just like anyone else can.

Andrew --
----> Portland, Oregon, USA <----
*******************************************************************
----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address *******************************************************************


Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:29:30 GMT
From: "Jon" (jdcope@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas

Dave Thompson <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message news:vfufd8mv2fu92@no-spam >
> > <clw@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:clw-AD75E7.21284728062003@no-spam > > > In article <MPG.1967f893b0b3a075989795@no-spam>,
> > > Larry Caldwell <larryc@no-spam> wrote:
> > >
> > > > jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) writes:
> > > > > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:37:28 -0700, Joni Rathbun > > > > > <jrathbun@no-spam> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >What are the gas prices there right now?
> > > > >
> > > > > Portland Metro area is running at about the same prices that we saw > in > > > > > our loop through Utah and Nevada a couple of weeks ago, including > Las > > > > > Vegas. I paid $1.65/gal for Chevron in Corvallis (proper, not on > I-5)
> > > > > today.
> > > >
> > > > $1.629 at the 76 at the Brownsville exit on Wednesday. $1.549 in > > > > Roseburg at the discount stations.
> > >
> > > 1.59 at Arco at intersection of Allen and Lombard in Beaverton this pm.
> >
> > 1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.
>
> Average price for Oregon is $1.60, average price for Washington is $1.50.
>
>

Until Washington raises their gas tax this week....


From: "Dave Thompson" (dav13795@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:43:01 -0700

"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:DG4Ma.2515$JY1.847@no-spam >
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message >
> > > 1.59 at Arco at intersection of Allen and Lombard in Beaverton this pm.
> >
> > 1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.
>
> Name one.

He's full of shit. I just went from the airport to Tigard and didn't see anything less than $1.61 which was in Tigard (well, King City).


From: clw@no-spam
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 06:38:05 -0700

In article <5I4Ma.2523$JY1.2048@no-spam>,
"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote:

> "David" <asphunter@no-spam> wrote in message > > >i dont mind > > helping keep emplyment and not putting 1000's of people out of work > > Then we should outlaw lawn mowing. Filling your lawnmower is dangerous, and > if everybody had to hire lawn mowers, it would create thousands of jobs.

My lawnmower was a plug in job. Then we got one you only needed to push for my wifes exercise program. Never used any "gas".


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:14:53 -0700

--
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Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:5I4Ma.2523$JY1.2048@no-spam >
> "David" <asphunter@no-spam> wrote in message >
> >i dont mind > > helping keep emplyment and not putting 1000's of people out of work >
> Then we should outlaw lawn mowing. Filling your lawnmower is dangerous,
and > if everybody had to hire lawn mowers, it would create thousands of jobs.
>
That's not the issue. The ban on self-serve is not on -personal- activity but on -commercial- activity.


From: "Dave Thompson" (dav13795@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:54:31 -0700

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message news:vg3957isksj0b2@no-spam > --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message > news:DG4Ma.2515$JY1.847@no-spam > >
> > "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > >
> > > > 1.59 at Arco at intersection of Allen and Lombard in Beaverton this > pm.
> > >
> > > 1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.
> >
> > Name one.
> >
> Why should I bother when you're just being argumentative?

Why don't you tell us where it is so we know if you are lying or not.


From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:37:18 -0700

CLW wrote:

> "gatt" wrote:

> > Then we should outlaw lawn mowing. Filling your > > lawnmower is dangerous, and if everybody had to > > hire lawn mowers, it would create thousands of jobs.

> My lawnmower was a plug in job.

It still has blades that can cut off your fingers, or someone else's fingers. What are you doing operating that thing without being certified?

Bob t

From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:33:40 GMT

"Baxter" <

> > > 1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.
> >
> > Name one.
> >
> Why should I bother when you're just being argumentative?

Because I think you're fibbing. Par for the course and all.

-c

From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:36:23 GMT

<clw@no-spam> wrote in message news:clw-108111.06380501072003@no-spam
> > >i dont mind > > > helping keep emplyment and not putting 1000's of people out of work > >
> > Then we should outlaw lawn mowing. Filling your lawnmower is dangerous,
and > > if everybody had to hire lawn mowers, it would create thousands of jobs.
>
> My lawnmower was a plug in job. Then we got one you only needed to push > for my wifes exercise program. Never used any "gas".

Neato. What difference does it make; we're talking about a law here, not common sense.

-c

From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:37:28 GMT

"Dave Thompson" <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message
> Do you have a grill? It's pretty dangerous if you don't connect the propane > tank correctly. Lighting charcoal is dangerous, also.

Plus, if you made a law where you had to hire somebody to do it for you it would create thousands of jobs, and you wouldn't have to burden yourself with all those nasty fumes.

-c

From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:38:17 GMT

"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam> wrote in message
> > My lawnmower was a plug in job.
>
> It still has blades that can cut off your > fingers, or someone else's fingers. What > are you doing operating that thing without > being certified?

Keeping hardworking dropouts and Mexicans out of work is what's happening.

-c

From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:05:18 -0700

--
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"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:8ukMa.6070$JY1.3227@no-spam >
> "Baxter" <
>
> > > > 1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.
> > >
> > > Name one.
> > >
> > Why should I bother when you're just being argumentative?
>
> Because I think you're fibbing. Par for the course and all.
>
No you don't. You're simply trying to attack the person instead of the issue.


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:07:39 -0700

--
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"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:jDkMa.6174$JY1.247@no-spam >
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message >
> > > Then we should outlaw lawn mowing. Filling your lawnmower is dangerous,
> > and if everybody had to hire lawn mowers, it would create thousands of > jobs.
> > >
> > That's not the issue. The ban on self-serve is not on -personal-
activity > > but on -commercial- activity.
>
> I can't get out and pump gas I've already paid for into my own vehicle,
> which is perfectly safe, unless it's my boat or my airplane, which is > potentially dangerous, so splitting hairs over what it is is something that > is best left to lawyers and beaureacrats.
>
> What would be fun sometime is to have my jerry cans filled and then, right > there, to fill my own jeep.

You don't own the dispensing equipment. It's still not a personal freedom issue, it's a commercial activity issue - and no matter how hard you try you can't make it a personal freedom issue.


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:09:37 -0700

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"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0307011153450.13438-100000@no-spam >
>
>
>
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, gatt wrote:
>
> -snips-
>
> > What would be fun sometime is to have my jerry cans filled and then,
right > > there, to fill my own jeep.
>
> For extremely strange values of "fun".

And, once the gas had been pumped out of the gas station's tanks with gas station pumps into his jerry cans, perfectly legal. It's a commercial activity that is regulated - not a personal freedom.


From: "Dave Thompson" (dav13795@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:13:04 -0700

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message news:vg3mrhc2kr8ad4@no-spam > --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message > news:8ukMa.6070$JY1.3227@no-spam > >
> > "Baxter" <
> >
> > > > > 1.49 at several stations in N. Portland.
> > > >
> > > > Name one.
> > > >
> > > Why should I bother when you're just being argumentative?
> >
> > Because I think you're fibbing. Par for the course and all.
> >
> No you don't. You're simply trying to attack the person instead of the > issue.

The issue is that you are a liar. Now, why don't you tell us where those gas stations are?

My bet - since gas prices have been dropping over the last few days you'll wait to see if it drops some more and then name a station or two and pretend like they were that price when you first made the statement.

Anyone else want to take that bet?


From: cardboard@no-spam (cardboard)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: 1 Jul 2003 15:39:28 -0700

Bill Shatzer <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.44.0307011153450.13438-100000@no-spam>...

> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, gatt wrote:
> > -snips-
> > > What would be fun sometime is to have my jerry cans filled and then, right > > there, to fill my own jeep.
> > For extremely strange values of "fun".

But yet that would be a legal activity, despite the fact that it is less environmentally friendly and presents a greater safety danger.


From: Paul Johnson (baloo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:00:35 -0700

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The Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:33:40 GMT, gatt <gatt@no-spam> wrote:
>> Why should I bother when you're just being argumentative?
> > Because I think you're fibbing. Par for the course and all.

I can believe it. North tends to have cheap gas. Drive down Fessenden sometime.

- -- .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user `. `'`
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From: Paul Johnson (baloo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:02:55 -0700

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The Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:43:27 GMT, gatt <gatt@no-spam> wrote:
> What would be fun sometime is to have my jerry cans filled and then, right > there, to fill my own jeep.

Why not just do that instead of complaining about it every six months to Usenet?

- -- .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user `. `'`
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From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:59:46 GMT

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message
> > The issue is that you are a liar. Now, why don't you tell us where those > gas stations are?
>
> Not much point in proving something to you, now is there?

Especially when you can't prove it at all.

You have no credibility. All you have to do is name one station that sells gas at the rate you said, and the argument is over.

But you can't. So the argument continues.

-gatt

From: Paul Johnson (baloo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:15:07 -0700

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The Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:00:00 -0700, Bob Tiernan <zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam> wrote:

>> Drive down Fessenden sometime.
> > I'd like to know which Fessenden this street > was named after.

No idea. Only went down St. John's big thoroughfare for the first time in 2001. Not a part of town I go to frequently, I know only a few people out that way and they're all in the same immediate family and household.

But the 17 still needs to go at least to Reeder Beach to be useful.

- -- .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user `. `'`
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From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:34:03 GMT

"Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message news:vju9t-vs1.ln1@no-spam > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> The Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:43:27 GMT, gatt <gatt@no-spam> wrote:
> > What would be fun sometime is to have my jerry cans filled and then,
right > > there, to fill my own jeep.
>
> Why not just do that instead of complaining about it every six months > to Usenet?

Why not do both?

-c

From: Paul Johnson (baloo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:12:10 -0700

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The Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:34:03 GMT, gatt <gatt@no-spam> wrote:
>> Why not just do that instead of complaining about it every six months >> to Usenet?
> > Why not do both?

I think we're all tired of listening to it come up every few months,
and nothing will ever change by bitching at Usenet.

- -- .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user `. `'`
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From: upstart23@no-spam (Heck's Kitchen)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:07:06 GMT

Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam> wrote:

>I think we're all tired of listening to it come up every few months,

Well, you were the first reply on this thread, and have posted too many times for us to believe your claim to be tired of the issue.

It seems more likely that you know the current law is untenable against true public opinion, and don't want the truth of it to be disseminated.


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:04:52 -0700

--
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Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:ShwMa.10373$JY1.6462@no-spam >
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message >
> > > The issue is that you are a liar. Now, why don't you tell us where those > > gas stations are?
> >
> > Not much point in proving something to you, now is there?
>
> Especially when you can't prove it at all.
>
> You have no credibility. All you have to do is name one station that sells > gas at the rate you said, and the argument is over.
>
> But you can't. So the argument continues.
>
Actually, not an argument - just attacks by a couple of amUsenet trolls. As for credibility, you're not doing yours any good (as if you had any).


From: Bill Shatzer (bshatzer@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:15:47 -0700

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Heck's Kitchen wrote:

> Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam> wrote:

> >I think we're all tired of listening to it come up every few months,

> Well, you were the first reply on this thread, and have posted too > many times for us to believe your claim to be tired of the issue.

> It seems more likely that you know the current law is untenable > against true public opinion, and don't want the truth of it to be > disseminated.

If "true public opinion" was for self-service, we'd have self-service. Ballot access is not at all difficult in this state.

"True public opinion" seems to be that folks like things the way they are and see no particular reason to change.

'Least that's what the oil company pollsters have been tellin' 'em for quite some time. Which is why THEY are uninterested in sponsoring an initiative, despite self-serve's financial attractiveness to the oil companies.

Peace and justice,


From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:42:44 GMT

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message
> > > Not much point in proving something to you, now is there?
> >
> > Especially when you can't prove it at all.
> >
> > You have no credibility. All you have to do is name one station that sells > > gas at the rate you said, and the argument is over.
> >
> > But you can't. So the argument continues.
> >
> Actually, not an argument - just attacks by a couple of amUsenet trolls.
As > for credibility, you're not doing yours any good (as if you had any).

Does asking your for proof, which you consistently fail to provide, somehow damage my credibility?

Are you high?

-c

From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:43:41 GMT

"Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message news:jfu9t-vs1.ln1@no-spam > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> The Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:33:40 GMT, gatt <gatt@no-spam> wrote:
> >> Why should I bother when you're just being argumentative?
> >
> > Because I think you're fibbing. Par for the course and all.
>
> I can believe it. North tends to have cheap gas. Drive down > Fessenden sometime.

Then Baxter won't have a problem naming one. But he won't name one, because he can't name one, just as he can't name where he went to college. 'Cause he made it up.

-c

From: Paul Johnson (baloo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:07:52 -0700

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The Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:07:06 GMT, Heck's Kitchen <upstart23@no-spam> wrote:
> Well, you were the first reply on this thread, and have posted too > many times for us to believe your claim to be tired of the issue.

No, it's just the only topic getting traffic on a.c.o right now.

> It seems more likely that you know the current law is untenable > against true public opinion, and don't want the truth of it to be > disseminated.

Both you and Baxter must be smoking crack. You've got the wingnut tinfoil hat schtick down, as Baxter does the whole unbackable claim thing and Out-Of-State Andrew with his spelling lames (is he that nasty with the Cinema 21 folks?).

- -- .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user `. `'`
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From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:07:24 -0700

--
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Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:1wOMa.13124$JY1.11767@no-spam >
> "Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message > news:jfu9t-vs1.ln1@no-spam > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > The Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:33:40 GMT, gatt <gatt@no-spam> wrote:
> > >> Why should I bother when you're just being argumentative?
> > >
> > > Because I think you're fibbing. Par for the course and all.
> >
> > I can believe it. North tends to have cheap gas. Drive down > > Fessenden sometime.
>
> Then Baxter won't have a problem naming one. But he won't name one,
because > he can't name one, just as he can't name where he went to college. 'Cause > he made it up.

What's the matter, gatt? Can't find cheap gas on your own? That's what comes from relying on your degrees too much. College didn't help me find cheap gas either - real life and initiative did.


From: Don Homuth (enough@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:08:40 GMT

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 19:21:10 GMT, "Bill Chevek" <billsworld@no-spam>
wrote:

>I love this state but I have a serious problem with the gas prices, the gas >taxes, and the no-pump policy.

The gas prices are a function of distance from refineries and transportation costs, mostly.

The gas taxes are no big deal and, if anything, too low.

The no-pump policy is the same sort of Oregon Tradition as is no sales tax. Oregonians simply don't want to change it.

> Why is it that every year a bill that would >fix these problems gets held up in the state government by nitwits who don't >even have to put gas in their cars anymore?
Because the market research paid for by the petroleum industry makes it clear that if a self-serve bill were to pass, it would be referred and be thrown out. Which is why the awlbidniss folks don't even bother to raise the issue any more.

>And why is it that gas prices >here are more expensive than anywhere else?

They aren't. It varies all over the place, depending on the season of the year, the phase of the moon, the alignment of the stars and the way the awlbidniss folks implement their Zone Pricing program. Gas costs both more and less elsewhere, depending on where you are.

> Probably because of the extra >employees that gas stations have to have and the high gasoline taxes.

Nope. Neither of those seem to have any effect on the actual price of the gas. The taxes are not part of that.

>So why can't we put it up to a vote?
Go ahead. The natural allies for such an effort would be the awlbidniss folks. Their lobby is easily reachable - it's the Oregon Petroleum Dealers Association. Have a chat with them, and see if they want to fund it.

They don't.

>I'd bet Oregon would overwhelmingly >vote for a law that let us have self-serve AND gave us some of the lowest >gas prices in the country by lowering taxes and letting station owners >decide what their customers preferred rather than the state.

There are so few "gas station owners" any more that the discussion would have no effect. The awlbidniss has been closing out private ownership for years, and the "owners" you see out there are really lessors who hold the lease at the pleasure of the awlbidniss folks.

But you'd lose the bet anyway, or at least that's what the awlbidniss folks believe -- and they have far better market research than you do.

This comes up about twice a year, and it never goes anywhere. Nor is it going to go anywhere. The Internet Weenies aren't going to make it happen, and the awlbidniss isn't going to fund the petition drive to make it happen. OTOH, were the legislature to pass it as a bill all on its own, the AAA would refer it immediately, and the bill would be tossed out.

Learn to live with it. It's a lot simpler.


From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:30:30 -0700

gatt wrote:

> No, Baxter. I'll repeat myself because you're stupid. You can't name a > single station where you saw cheap gas prices because the apparent fact > is, you didn't. You're a liar. You can't offer a single gas station > because you know that I could very easily drive across town and prove > that you're wrong.

That's what he counts on--people NOT doing footwork to discredit him (which is very easy to do).

Recall that when he lied about "every 30 seconds"
bus service along Lombard he didn't count on someone like me making a fact-finding mission to that dead end area and revealing that it was physically impossible for a bus "every 30 seconds"
as scheduled service.

And thus ended that one.

Bob t

From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:00:13 -0700

--
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"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:w19Oa.35617$JY1.8505@no-spam >
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message >
> > > Then Baxter won't have a problem naming one. But he won't name one,
> > because > > > he can't name one, just as he can't name where he went to college.
> 'Cause > > > he made it up.
> >
> > What's the matter, gatt? Can't find cheap gas on your own? ]
>
> No, Baxter. I'll repeat myself because you're stupid. You can't name a > single station where you saw cheap gas prices because the apparent fact is,
> you didn't. You're a liar. You can't offer a single gas station because you > know that I could very easily drive across town and prove that you're wrong.
>
I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including you)
can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty well defined area), and see for themselves. You're just showing yourself to be stupid. Do take it personal.


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:05:37 -0700

--
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"Bob Tiernan" <zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.53MAILDIR.0307070127320.27613@no-spam >
> gatt wrote:
>
> > No, Baxter. I'll repeat myself because you're stupid. You can't name a > > single station where you saw cheap gas prices because the apparent fact > > is, you didn't. You're a liar. You can't offer a single gas station > > because you know that I could very easily drive across town and prove > > that you're wrong.
>
> That's what he counts on--people NOT doing footwork to > discredit him (which is very easy to do).

The area is not that big that people can't see for themselves.

>
> Recall that when he lied about "every 30 seconds"
> bus service along Lombard he didn't count on > someone like me making a fact-finding mission > to that dead end area and revealing that it was > physically impossible for a bus "every 30 seconds"
> as scheduled service.

You never did identify the segment I was talking about.
>
> And thus ended that one.
>
For you, it never ends.


From: "Dave Thompson" (dav13795@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:17:33 -0700

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message news:vgj2nuns9hcecd@no-spam > --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message > news:w19Oa.35617$JY1.8505@no-spam > >
> > "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > >
> > > > Then Baxter won't have a problem naming one. But he won't name one,
> > > because > > > > he can't name one, just as he can't name where he went to college.
> > 'Cause > > > > he made it up.
> > >
> > > What's the matter, gatt? Can't find cheap gas on your own? ]
> >
> > No, Baxter. I'll repeat myself because you're stupid. You can't name a > > single station where you saw cheap gas prices because the apparent fact > is,
> > you didn't. You're a liar. You can't offer a single gas station because > you > > know that I could very easily drive across town and prove that you're > wrong.
> >
> I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including you)
> can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty well > defined area), and see for themselves. You're just showing yourself to be > stupid. Do take it personal.

I was in north Portland. Gas prices have been coming down and there wasn't anything within a dime of what you claimed. This means, obviously, that when you made the claim two weeks ago you were obviously lying.


From: jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:27:00 GMT

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:10:20 GMT, "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote:

snip
>Or, if you had half a wit, you could provide a name of such a place so >people reading this could get cheap gas, or prove you RIGHT and tell me to >shut the hell up.

Well, I paid 1.61 for Texaco regular, at Olson brothers in downtown Milwaukie. Probably cheaper further down McLoughlin at their other place....not bad for Texaco, but I didn't look at the neighboring Arco or the Space Age there, either (we tend to run with Texaco or Chevron with this car as it gets cranky on cheaper gas, and the mechanic's warned us to stick with these brands since they're allegedly certified. Hey, since the gas mileage is better and the car runs better...)

jrw

From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:45:39 -0700

--
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Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Dave Thompson" <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message news:vgj79da6igrm2e@no-spam >
>
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > news:vgj2nuns9hcecd@no-spam > > >
> > I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including you)
> > can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty well > > defined area), and see for themselves. You're just showing yourself to be > > stupid. Do take it personal.
>
> I was in north Portland. Gas prices have been coming down and there wasn't > anything within a dime of what you claimed. This means, obviously, that when > you made the claim two weeks ago you were obviously lying.
>
Nice try, no cigar. Too bad you feel you have to lie to save face.


From: "Dave Thompson" (dav13795@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:20:56 -0700

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message news:vgjce53s5r0gb2@no-spam > --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Dave Thompson" <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message > news:vgj79da6igrm2e@no-spam > >
> >
> > "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:vgj2nuns9hcecd@no-spam > > > >
> > > I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including > you)
> > > can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty well > > > defined area), and see for themselves. You're just showing yourself to > be > > > stupid. Do take it personal.
> >
> > I was in north Portland. Gas prices have been coming down and there wasn't > > anything within a dime of what you claimed. This means, obviously, that > when > > you made the claim two weeks ago you were obviously lying.
> >
> Nice try, no cigar. Too bad you feel you have to lie to save face.

The Arco at 57th and Fremont was $1.59.

Who's a liar now Baxter?


From: jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:04:41 GMT

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:20:56 -0700, "Dave Thompson"
<dav13795@no-spam> wrote:

snip
>The Arco at 57th and Fremont was $1.59.

The U-Save at SE King and Linwood in Milwaukie was $1.54 today,
while the Chevron catty-corner from it was $1.59. Johnson Creek Freddy's had $1.51. However, I doubt they were *that* cheap two weeks ago.

jrw

From: "Dave Thompson" (dav13795@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:22:52 -0700

"Joyce Reynolds-Ward" <jrw@no-spam> wrote in message news:3f09d209.15044771@no-spam > On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:20:56 -0700, "Dave Thompson"
> <dav13795@no-spam> wrote:
>
> snip >
> >The Arco at 57th and Fremont was $1.59.
>
> The U-Save at SE King and Linwood in Milwaukie was $1.54 today,
> while the Chevron catty-corner from it was $1.59. Johnson Creek > Freddy's had $1.51. However, I doubt they were *that* cheap two weeks > ago.

Baxter is still waiting and holding out until they drop, then he'll squeal like a piggy that they were that price all the time.


From: "John" (jawod@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:58:09 -0400

A VERY nice summation to all the issues of this long thread ... and you flamed No ONE...congratulations! (Seriously)
"Don Homuth" <enough@no-spam> wrote in message news:5ohggv0kdu1jbrbt9s2t9gqlngs9jpc22b@no-spam > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 19:21:10 GMT, "Bill Chevek" <billsworld@no-spam>
> wrote:
>
> >I love this state but I have a serious problem with the gas prices, the gas > >taxes, and the no-pump policy.
>
> The gas prices are a function of distance from refineries and > transportation costs, mostly.
>
> The gas taxes are no big deal and, if anything, too low.
>
> The no-pump policy is the same sort of Oregon Tradition as is no sales > tax. Oregonians simply don't want to change it.
>
> > Why is it that every year a bill that would > >fix these problems gets held up in the state government by nitwits who don't > >even have to put gas in their cars anymore?
>
> Because the market research paid for by the petroleum industry makes > it clear that if a self-serve bill were to pass, it would be referred > and be thrown out. Which is why the awlbidniss folks don't even > bother to raise the issue any more.
>
> >And why is it that gas prices > >here are more expensive than anywhere else?
>
> They aren't. It varies all over the place, depending on the season of > the year, the phase of the moon, the alignment of the stars and the > way the awlbidniss folks implement their Zone Pricing program. Gas > costs both more and less elsewhere, depending on where you are.
>
> > Probably because of the extra > >employees that gas stations have to have and the high gasoline taxes.
>
> Nope. Neither of those seem to have any effect on the actual price of > the gas. The taxes are not part of that.
>
> >So why can't we put it up to a vote?
>
> Go ahead. The natural allies for such an effort would be the > awlbidniss folks. Their lobby is easily reachable - it's the Oregon > Petroleum Dealers Association. Have a chat with them, and see if they > want to fund it.
>
> They don't.
>
> >I'd bet Oregon would overwhelmingly > >vote for a law that let us have self-serve AND gave us some of the lowest > >gas prices in the country by lowering taxes and letting station owners > >decide what their customers preferred rather than the state.
>
> There are so few "gas station owners" any more that the discussion > would have no effect. The awlbidniss has been closing out private > ownership for years, and the "owners" you see out there are really > lessors who hold the lease at the pleasure of the awlbidniss folks.
>
> But you'd lose the bet anyway, or at least that's what the awlbidniss > folks believe -- and they have far better market research than you do.
>
> This comes up about twice a year, and it never goes anywhere. Nor is > it going to go anywhere. The Internet Weenies aren't going to make it > happen, and the awlbidniss isn't going to fund the petition drive to > make it happen. OTOH, were the legislature to pass it as a bill all > on its own, the AAA would refer it immediately, and the bill would be > tossed out.
>
> Learn to live with it. It's a lot simpler.


From: Don Homuth (enough@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:15:53 GMT

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:58:09 -0400, "John" <jawod@no-spam> wrote:

>A VERY nice summation to all the issues of this long thread ... and you >flamed No ONE...congratulations! (Seriously)

Comes from getting a chuckle out of the matter showing up on a regular basis.

The flaming part comes only after provocation. Since I just got back from a 3-week vacation to N MN and Canuckistan, the provocation was low.


From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:57:05 GMT

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message
> I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including you)
> can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty well > defined area), and see for themselves.

Funny, I was just there yesterday. Damn if I saw gas any cheaper than the Shell station down the street.

Now, why would you be such a complete asshole as to expect people to waste gas and contribute to global warming by driving across town just to prove you wrong?

What a dick. All you have to do is name one gas station and the thread is done. But you can't. You'd rather people burn gas and pollute the air just to discover that you're a liar.

-gatt

From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:59:06 GMT

"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message
> If "true public opinion" was for self-service, we'd have > self-service. Ballot access is not at all difficult in > this state.

True public opinion was for assisted suicide and medical marijuana, too.

-c

From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:13:02 -0700

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message news:BJCOa.18536$aD6.1650@no-spam >
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message >
>
> > I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including you)
> > can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty well > > defined area), and see for themselves.
>
<snip>
>
> What a dick. All you have to do ...

Were that only true. Fact is, it would, at best, only affect this thread -
and more likely you'd claim the price wasn't what I said it was at the time I said it. You're a Sore Loser - and if you can't find a win, you'll make one up.


From: Don Homuth (enough@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:41:39 GMT

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:59:06 GMT, "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote:

>
>"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message >
>> If "true public opinion" was for self-service, we'd have >> self-service. Ballot access is not at all difficult in >> this state.
>
>True public opinion was for assisted suicide and medical marijuana, too.

Each of those had an interested group doing Useful Political Work that got them done. Neither happened all by themselves.

No such group exists for self-serve gasoline -- including and perhaps especially the petroleum dealers.


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:19:25 -0700

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Dave Thompson" <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message news:vgm6bi8i9v6330@no-spam >
>
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > news:vgm5u2tajs3k70@no-spam > > --
> >
> > "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:BJCOa.18536$aD6.1650@no-spam > > >
> > > "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > > >
> > >
> > > > I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including > > you)
> > > > can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty > well > > > > defined area), and see for themselves.
> > >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > What a dick. All you have to do ...
> >
> > Were that only true. Fact is, it would, at best, only affect this > thread -
> > and more likely you'd claim the price wasn't what I said it was at the > time > > I said it.
>
> I told you this is what Baxter was going to pull.

No-win situation, right?

>Wait untill he sees a > price and say it was that way all along. Now he's pissed he was > out-manuevered.
>
Nah, you're just trying to save face because I wouldn't play the game by your rules.


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:36:37 -0700

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Dave Thompson" <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message news:vgjegnh4ttap6c@no-spam >
>
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > news:vgjce53s5r0gb2@no-spam > > --
> >
> > "Dave Thompson" <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:vgj79da6igrm2e@no-spam > > >
> > >
> > > "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:vgj2nuns9hcecd@no-spam > > > > >
> > > > I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including > > you)
> > > > can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty > well > > > > defined area), and see for themselves. You're just showing yourself > to > > be > > > > stupid. Do take it personal.
> > >
> > > I was in north Portland. Gas prices have been coming down and there > wasn't > > > anything within a dime of what you claimed. This means, obviously,
that > > when > > > you made the claim two weeks ago you were obviously lying.
> > >
> > Nice try, no cigar. Too bad you feel you have to lie to save face.
>
> The Arco at 57th and Fremont was $1.59.

BTW: 57th and Fremont is not in -North- Portland, it's in -NE- Portland.
>
> Who's a liar now Baxter?
>
Looks like you're the one trying cloud the issue. -North- Portland is a very well defined area.


From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:59:48 -0700

Paul Johnson wrote:

> Bob Tiernan wrote:

> > [someone] wrote:

> > > Drive down Fessenden sometime.

> > I'd like to know which Fessenden this street > > was named after.

> No idea.

There were two Fessenden brothers who were generals in the Union Army. Each had records that were more or less equal in mild distinction so it's hard to figure out which one the street is named after (perhaps both).

Bob t

From: "David" (asphunter@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:26:10 -0700

"Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message news:vgmkcpjar840d7@no-spam > --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Dave Thompson" <dav13795@no-spam> wrote in message > news:vgm6bi8i9v6330@no-spam > >
> >
> > "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:vgm5u2tajs3k70@no-spam > > > --
> > >
> > > "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:BJCOa.18536$aD6.1650@no-spam > > > >
> > > > "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I could name one, alright - just not for you. And anyone (including > > > you)
> > > > > can take a drive through North Portland (it is, after all, a pretty > > well > > > > > defined area), and see for themselves.
> > > >
> > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > What a dick. All you have to do ...
> > >
> > > Were that only true. Fact is, it would, at best, only affect this > > thread -
> > > and more likely you'd claim the price wasn't what I said it was at the > > time > > > I said it.
> >
> > I told you this is what Baxter was going to pull.
>
> No-win situation, right?
>
> >Wait untill he sees a > > price and say it was that way all along. Now he's pissed he was > > out-manuevered.
> >
> Nah, you're just trying to save face because I wouldn't play the game by > your rules.

Ya know... i wonder just how much software on your site really belongs to you.. maybe we should have you investigated... .


From: "Baxter" (lbax01.spaminator@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Baxter's still a liar. Was: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:23:01 -0700

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

"David" <asphunter@no-spam> wrote in message news:vgmvbq227c85f3@no-spam >
> "Baxter" <lbax01.spaminator@no-spam> wrote in message > news:vgmkcpjar840d7@no-spam > > >
> > Nah, you're just trying to save face because I wouldn't play the game by > > your rules.
>
> Ya know... i wonder just how much software on your site really belongs to > you.. maybe we should have you investigated... .
>
Go right ahead. Gotta wonder, though, just why you feel so threatened. Is it because you're not capable of creating something on your own?


From: Bill Shatzer (bshatzer@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:39:18 -0700

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bob Tiernan wrote:

> There were two Fessenden brothers who were generals > in the Union Army. Each had records that were > more or less equal in mild distinction so it's hard > to figure out which one the street is named after > (perhaps both).

According to Snyder's book ('Portland Names and Neighborhoods')
there is no connection between the street and any civil war general.

If you seek civil war generals, you will (with the exception of Burnside) need to repair to SW Portland where you will find Sheridan, Hooker, Meade, and Porter or SE Portland where you'll find Grant, Sherman, and Lincoln.

[Yeah, I know. Lincoln wasn't a "general". This disclaimer is inserted for BT's benefit who would otherwise pick that particular nit.]

Peace and justice,


From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:30:19 GMT

"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message
> > True public opinion was for assisted suicide and medical marijuana, too.
>
> And, we currently have both assisted suicide and medical marijuana.

Not without a constant battle against the federal government and US Supreme Court. You remember those guys who were busted in Eugene for selling glass pipes recently?

-c

From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:32:21 GMT

"Don Homuth" <enough@no-spam> wrote in message
> >True public opinion was for assisted suicide and medical marijuana, too.
>
> Each of those had an interested group doing Useful Political Work that > got them done. Neither happened all by themselves.
>
> No such group exists for self-serve gasoline -- including and perhaps > especially the petroleum dealers.

I think you're right, Don. It's in the best interest of the petroleum dealers and oil industry to maintain the self-service ban which is most likely why they haven't moved to repeal it.

:P
-c

From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:11:43 -0700

Bill Shatzer wrote:

> gatt wrote:

> > [Someone] wrote:

> > > And, we currently have both assisted suicide > > > and medical marijuana.

> > Not without a constant battle against the federal > > government and US Supreme Court.

> The USSC has been involved in neither.

I thought the USSC did make a ruling related to both of these.

> I doubt the USSC would get involved > in self-service gas either.

Why not? It's already stuck its statist nose in professional golf (and made an incredible wrong decision--but read Scalia and Thomas for how it should have gone).

Bob t

From: Paul Johnson (baloo@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:32:03 -0700

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:01:45 -0700, Bill Shatzer <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote:
> Glass pipes are covered under either the medical marijuana law or > the assisted suicide law?
> > Glass pipes seem more traditionally associated with the ingestion of > drugs -other- than marijuana, medical or otherwise. Folks who > wish to ingest marijuana usually prefer the traditional roach.

Actually, from what I can tell, most potheads hate rolling, opting for a small pipe or water bong instead. Probably for all the same reasons smokers tend to buy packs of cigarettes instead of rolling papers and a bag of tobacco.

- -- .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user `. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

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gKr9IUIg2zc139+Na7+oaug=
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From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Oregon Gas
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:49:43 -0700

Bob Tiernan wrote:

> Fessenden might even be named after the > father of the two generals--he was an > assistant Secretary of something in the > Lincoln Admin.

Actually, Sec of the Treasury at one point and a US Senator.

BT

From: Bob Tiernan (zulu.pacifier.com@no-spam)
Subject: Baseball's vanishing black players
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:30:23 -0700

Stupid lefty Sports Illustrated writer says that only 10% of baseball players are black,
down from 17% some years back.

He's creating an issue where there is none, in good ol' Jesse Jackson fashion. Seems the writer has his own definition of "black" so that he could purposely reduce the number and cry that there's a crisis.
His definition of "black baseball player" is one that is born in the United States.
Therefore blacks born in the Caribbean or South or Central America (i.e. mostly with Hispanic names) don't count.

Bob T