OTT MOTORCYCLES 15 RE TICKETS OR SHOULD I SAY GOD DAMN TICKETS
From: Mr Ed (someone@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:21:30 -0400


A few years ago I had the pleasure of entertaining an OPP officer in Orillia to the speed of $285.00. I was in fact speeding and he didn't drop it a bit for me. So I guess all I can say is "What exactly did it say on the big red sign in front of you at the intersection?" Every news broadcast for the past week has included a warning from all the police forces that they were going to be blitzing this holiday weekend. I sympathize with you because most times you would have got away with it but they have been warning us and it appears they meant it. The rest of us are now warned at your expense. Thank You. Mr Ed.

Dave Walker wrote:
> so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old (at > the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE given > how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
> > I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I get off > onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have been > down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs, ...
> and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side streets, ...
> as > > I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and have > NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just driving in > the East/West direction like myself...
> > SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at approximately > 3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
> > That cost me $110.
> > what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to fight > it ...
> > I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either I'm out > of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
> > I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says "well,
> I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you don't > either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
> > The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike, and > it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get PULLED > OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other > NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the SAME > CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was on his > way) ...
> > What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with something REAL > to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the closest > thing i can think of!!!
> > the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a motorcycle is > extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
> > My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get that shit > off my chest :(
> >

From: Ziggy (ziggy_ott@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:24:50 -0400

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:11:11 GMT, "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam>
wrote:
Ya, I empathize with you....Whenever I cross paths with a cop car, I feel the old "evil-eye" on me. What the cop said "well,
I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you don't either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
is a load of crap....Insurance companies routinely check on their clients on the MTO system....this is one of the things you agreed to when you purchased your insurance. In Quebec, the insurance co has to get written permission from you before they can check your driving record. Go to court and you may be lucky and the cop won't show up and you won't even have to fight it....only hassle is you loose a days work or holiday but I think it may be a point or 2 for a rolling stop these days and all you need is another and you are in the "high risk"
category.

>so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old (at >the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE given >how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
>
>I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I get off >onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have been >down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs, ...
>and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side streets, ...
>as >
>I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and have >NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just driving in >the East/West direction like myself...
>
>SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at approximately >3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
>
>That cost me $110.
>
>what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to fight >it ...
>
>I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either I'm out >of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
>
>I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says "well,
>I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you don't >either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
>
>The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike, and >it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get PULLED >OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other >NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the SAME >CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was on his >way) ...
>
>What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with something REAL >to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the closest >thing i can think of!!!
>
> the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a motorcycle is >extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
>
>My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get that shit >off my chest :(


From: "Tom B" (anyone@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:46:55 -0400

That sux, BUT, they have been warning of a blitz, I got pulled over the other day for talking on my 2way radio! The cop wanted to know what I was doing, then lectured me about how I incurred a half dozen traffic violations (????) obviously not bad enough to warrant a ticket, and sent me on my way.

-- Tom B
"Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message news:zk4Ma.24691$2ay.19469@no-spam > so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old (at > the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE given > how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
>
> I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I get off > onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have been > down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs, ...
> and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side streets,
...
> as >
> I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and have > NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just driving in > the East/West direction like myself...
>
> SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at approximately > 3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
>
> That cost me $110.
>
> what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to fight > it ...
>
> I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either I'm out > of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
>
> I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says "well,
> I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you don't > either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
>
> The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike, and > it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get PULLED > OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other > NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the SAME > CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was on his > way) ...
>
> What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with something REAL > to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the closest > thing i can think of!!!
>
> the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a motorcycle is > extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
>
> My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get that shit > off my chest :(
>
>
> -- > Dave > 86 GS750es >
>
>
>


From: "winger" (gtlab(remove)@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS ((my 2 cents)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:03:30 -0400

if i read it right you did "not stop at the sign" if you had stopped then this thread would not be here .... and the law is "stop " not slow down just my 2 cents ( dont bite my head off )


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 02:52:07 GMT

but seriously ... how random is this safety blitz if they target harmless motorcycle infractions?

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Mr Ed" <someone@no-spam> wrote in message news:3F00D40A.9050204@no-spam > A few years ago I had the pleasure of entertaining an OPP officer in > Orillia to the speed of $285.00. I was in fact speeding and he didn't > drop it a bit for me. So I guess all I can say is "What exactly did it > say on the big red sign in front of you at the intersection?" Every > news broadcast for the past week has included a warning from all the > police forces that they were going to be blitzing this holiday weekend.
> I sympathize with you because most times you would have got away with > it but they have been warning us and it appears they meant it. The rest > of us are now warned at your expense. Thank You. Mr Ed.
>
> Dave Walker wrote:
> > so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old (at > > the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE given > > how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
> >
> > I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I get off > > onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have been > > down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs,
...
> > and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side streets,
...
> > as > >
> > I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and have > > NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just driving in > > the East/West direction like myself...
> >
> > SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at approximately > > 3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
> >
> > That cost me $110.
> >
> > what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to fight > > it ...
> >
> > I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either I'm out > > of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
> >
> > I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says "well,
> > I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you don't > > either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
> >
> > The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike,
and > > it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get PULLED > > OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other > > NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the SAME > > CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was on his > > way) ...
> >
> > What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with something REAL > > to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the closest > > thing i can think of!!!
> >
> > the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a motorcycle is > > extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
> >
> > My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get that shit > > off my chest :(
> >
> >
>


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS ((my 2 cents)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 02:54:20 GMT

let me preface my remarks by saying I'm glad you included the final few words there, or else I would be a bit more (is it possible?) pissed off ...

let me just say, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"winger" <gtlab(remove)@no-spam> wrote in message news:Q%5Ma.918$Gf3.3095@no-spam > if i read it right you did "not stop at the sign" if you had > stopped then this thread would not be here .... and the law is "stop > " not slow down just my 2 cents ( dont bite my head off )
>
>


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 02:58:08 GMT

(and don't give a shit about people in cars doing the exact same thing just 40 feet away from the scene...)

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message news:rH6Ma.26378$2ay.10397@no-spam > but seriously ... how random is this safety blitz if they target harmless > motorcycle infractions?
>
>
>
> -- > Dave > 86 GS750es >
>
>
> "Mr Ed" <someone@no-spam> wrote in message > news:3F00D40A.9050204@no-spam > > A few years ago I had the pleasure of entertaining an OPP officer in > > Orillia to the speed of $285.00. I was in fact speeding and he didn't > > drop it a bit for me. So I guess all I can say is "What exactly did it > > say on the big red sign in front of you at the intersection?" Every > > news broadcast for the past week has included a warning from all the > > police forces that they were going to be blitzing this holiday weekend.
> > I sympathize with you because most times you would have got away with > > it but they have been warning us and it appears they meant it. The rest > > of us are now warned at your expense. Thank You. Mr Ed.
> >
> > Dave Walker wrote:
> > > so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old > (at > > > the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE > given > > > how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
> > >
> > > I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I get > off > > > onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have been > > > down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs,
> ...
> > > and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side streets,
> ...
> > > as > > >
> > > I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and > have > > > NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just driving > in > > > the East/West direction like myself...
> > >
> > > SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at > approximately > > > 3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
> > >
> > > That cost me $110.
> > >
> > > what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to > fight > > > it ...
> > >
> > > I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either I'm > out > > > of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
> > >
> > > I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says > "well,
> > > I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you > don't > > > either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
> > >
> > > The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike,
> and > > > it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get > PULLED > > > OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other > > > NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the SAME > > > CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was on > his > > > way) ...
> > >
> > > What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with something > REAL > > > to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the > closest > > > thing i can think of!!!
> > >
> > > the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a motorcycle > is > > > extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
> > >
> > > My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get that > shit > > > off my chest :(
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


From: "Mustangbrad" (brad@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS ((my 2 cents)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 04:47:05 GMT

F*CK THA POLICE, F*CK F*CK F*CK THA POLICE!!!!

I got a ticket 3 yrs. ago for avoiding an accident on the queensway in my cage. Dumbass driver in front of me decides to mash the brakes in the offramp lane to moodie, Kanata assH*LE (I live here don't be offended)
decided the lane was moving fast enough to get to Kanata so he decides to cause an almost accident. To avoid him I swerv into the bus lane, blow by him, and pull back in. Cop pulls me over and says he saw me pass several vehicles in the bus lane. I'm like "guy, I just avoided an accident and now you want to ticket me?" Anyways I fight it and show up to court 2 months later. I explain to the judge that I was avoiding an accident and the copper was full of sh*t. Judge tells me I should have left 10 car spaces between me and the car in front and that the cops are always right. I got out of the courtroom and copper is waiting outside. I said to him "you know I was avoiding an accident", cop says "I know you were, but that's life" I had a few choice words at that moment but I bit my tongue. Next time someone jams on the brakes in front of me on the moodie drive offramp, they will be have my front bumper in their rear window, I guarantee it. Good luck fighting it,
cops and judges are always right, unless your on welfare, then they let you off. (let the bum off who was before me in court cause he was a welfarian driving with no license and 10 outstanding fines)

"Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message news:wJ6Ma.26400$2ay.6934@no-spam > let me preface my remarks by saying I'm glad you included the final few > words there, or else I would be a bit more (is it possible?) pissed off ...
>
> let me just say, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
>
> --
> Dave > 86 GS750es >
>
>
> "winger" <gtlab(remove)@no-spam> wrote in message > news:Q%5Ma.918$Gf3.3095@no-spam > > if i read it right you did "not stop at the sign" if you had > > stopped then this thread would not be here .... and the law is > "stop > > " not slow down just my 2 cents ( dont bite my head off )
> >
> >
>
>


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS ((my 2 cents)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:40:15 GMT

well, it would seem that you see the glass as half empty mr ed...

he said he was just following a guy ... and the guy in front made an irrational decision to brake in a manner that was unsafe at highway speeds (from what I interpreted ...)
an offramp is for just that ... decellerating ... that's NOT the way to do it when you're in the slow lane that eventually turns into the offramp ...

i'm not 100% sure on this, as i don't know you, but most people will maintain a fairly consistent spacing between cars that will vary from day to day, depending on the density of traffic basicly ...if there's not a lot of cars on the road, you probably aren't going to see a tail gater ...
BUT, when you have a LOT of cars, the spacing between them is just naturally going to be smaller ... to the point where it would be the same distance that you'd normally call a tailgater ...

I think it is unfair in this case for the judge to just say "you should have been 10 cars back", because you could almost argue that you would never get to where you're going if you have to lay off the gas say 10%
every time somebody else passes you... (of course this is hypothetical, but true...)
(much like how if you have a distance of point A to point B, and jump half way each time, you will never really get there ...)

if the cop is saying you passed the vehicles in the bus lane, but the judge said "you were driving too close", ... aren't those two totally different infractions?
you should'a checked out one of those agencies that claims they'll win the case, or you don't pay...
If I recall in my driving manual (from 10 friggin years ago)... you must do whatever is in your power (within reason) to avoid an accident...though details are sketchy on this one...

anyways, i"m tired as shit basicly, if you're not doing something that's dangerous, but get a ticket for doing it, when in reality you're avoiding somebody ELSE that's driving dangerously, (which can be done fastly as WELL as slowly ...)... it's a crock of shit to catch heat for it ...

g'nite!

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Mr Ed" <someone@no-spam> wrote in message news:3F01276E.4000400@no-spam > Let me see if I have this right ..... The car in front of you is an > a**hole, you were not driving aggressively, all the other cars around > you were in your way, the cop picked you out of the bunch because you > were the only one doing everything right and he doesn't like you > specifically..... I think I understand now....
>
> Mustangbrad wrote:
> > F*CK THA POLICE, F*CK F*CK F*CK THA POLICE!!!!
> >
> > I got a ticket 3 yrs. ago for avoiding an accident on the queensway in my > > cage. Dumbass driver in front of me decides to mash the brakes in the > > offramp lane to moodie, Kanata assH*LE (I live here don't be offended)
> > decided the lane was moving fast enough to get to Kanata so he decides to > > cause an almost accident. To avoid him I swerv into the bus lane, blow by > > him, and pull back in. Cop pulls me over and says he saw me pass several > > vehicles in the bus lane. I'm like "guy, I just avoided an accident and now > > you want to ticket me?" Anyways I fight it and show up to court 2
months > > later. I explain to the judge that I was avoiding an accident and the copper > > was full of sh*t. Judge tells me I should have left 10 car spaces between me > > and the car in front and that the cops are always right. I got out of the > > courtroom and copper is waiting outside. I said to him "you know I was > > avoiding an accident", cop says "I know you were, but that's life" I had a > > few choice words at that moment but I bit my tongue. Next time someone jams > > on the brakes in front of me on the moodie drive offramp, they will be have > > my front bumper in their rear window, I guarantee it. Good luck fighting it,
> > cops and judges are always right, unless your on welfare, then they let you > > off. (let the bum off who was before me in court cause he was a welfarian > > driving with no license and 10 outstanding fines)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:wJ6Ma.26400$2ay.6934@no-spam > >
> >>let me preface my remarks by saying I'm glad you included the final few > >>words there, or else I would be a bit more (is it possible?) pissed off > >
> > ...
> >
> >>let me just say, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Dave > >>86 GS750es > >>
> >>
> >>
> >>"winger" <gtlab(remove)@no-spam> wrote in message > >>news:Q%5Ma.918$Gf3.3095@no-spam > >>
> >>>if i read it right you did "not stop at the sign" if you had > >>>stopped then this thread would not be here .... and the law is > >>
> >>"stop > >>
> >>>" not slow down just my 2 cents ( dont bite my head off )
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:57:21 GMT

well,... I mean i'm not gonna deny at least, that I've been guilty of trying harder than I should have to beat a red ... that's definitely something I could see deserving a ticket for some time maybe ...

but on sunnyside? a completely residential street, with 4-way stops all over the friggin place ... i've never seen anybody come off one of the side streets ... so the fact that I didn't quite stop just doesn't seem like that much of a DANGEROUS crime...

to be honest, I can see as much danger from that as from doing 53km/h in a 50km/h zone ...
has anybody ever received a ticket for that?

if not ... why is their room for cops to negotiate on what they deem to be speeding, but not what they deem to be a stop?

seems pretty cut & dry to me ...
you're either doing the speed limit or you're speeding,...
you're either stopping at the sign, or you're not fully stopping...

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Paul Woodward" <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote in message news:cIeMa.31767$104.354827@no-spam > I agree. I moved here over 5 years ago from Vancouver. Now drivers there > have their own problems at least on a par with those here. Soo don't flame > me for what I am about to say.
> I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights than > this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through. They hit > these intersections with the lights already red. I am not just pointing the > finger at our four wheeled friends many motorcycles too. This combined with > the what seems to be a complete lack of knowledge about turning onto > multilane streets (when you turn right stay in the right lane and vica > versa) makes the surface streets pretty much a dangerous place.
> Given that I don't trust anyone else to stop I always do. I just make it a > habit. Stop sign=stop. Not trying to be holier than thou just thinking of > it as life preserving.
> Speaking of the cops, I got pulled over last summer. I was stopped because > the bungee net on my seat was coming loose and the cop was afraid it might > go into the wheel. There I am stopped, D&D pipes gleaming (and not very > quiet) he looks at them and asks if they are for race only applications.
> My only response was I bought them from a dealer when I bought the bike and > specifically asked for street pipes. He grins and says okay, have a good > ride. I thanked him for taking the time to warn me about the situation with > the bungee net. This has been my only experience with the police with the > exception of the great bunch who come out and help with the Ride for Dad > each year.
>
> My 2 cents > Paul > VTR > "zeek" <zeek_97xx@no-spam> wrote in message > news:b756809f.0307010211.52df1ea1@no-spam > > Hmmm... (flame resistant gear on) Given how many bikes get taken out > > by cagers blowing stop signs and lights I would have thought there'd > > be some understanding of the concept. Just when I think the planets > > have aligned... Put a foot down and keep your $110. Sounds > > reasonable to me.
> >
> > Just a thought,
> >
> > Zeek >
>


From: "Norm" (nsand@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:03:35 GMT

i think what you all have to realize is that(regardless of the specific charge) the police services board was given clear direction as a result of a public survey: "they want more traffice enforcement" The police service will be increasing their traffic squad by up to 18 members !!!! Forget about increasing regular patrol officers, lets hammer out the tics because a percentage of that revenue is given back to the city from the city. It has nothing to do with enforcement and everything to do with cash !!!
"Mr Ed" <someone@no-spam> wrote in message news:3F00D40A.9050204@no-spam > A few years ago I had the pleasure of entertaining an OPP officer in > Orillia to the speed of $285.00. I was in fact speeding and he didn't > drop it a bit for me. So I guess all I can say is "What exactly did it > say on the big red sign in front of you at the intersection?" Every > news broadcast for the past week has included a warning from all the > police forces that they were going to be blitzing this holiday weekend.
> I sympathize with you because most times you would have got away with > it but they have been warning us and it appears they meant it. The rest > of us are now warned at your expense. Thank You. Mr Ed.
>
> Dave Walker wrote:
> > so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old (at > > the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE given > > how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
> >
> > I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I get off > > onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have been > > down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs, ...
> > and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side streets,
...
> > as > >
> > I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and have > > NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just driving in > > the East/West direction like myself...
> >
> > SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at approximately > > 3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
> >
> > That cost me $110.
> >
> > what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to fight > > it ...
> >
> > I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either I'm out > > of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
> >
> > I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says "well,
> > I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you don't > > either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
> >
> > The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike, and > > it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get PULLED > > OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other > > NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the SAME > > CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was on his > > way) ...
> >
> > What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with something REAL > > to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the closest > > thing i can think of!!!
> >
> > the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a motorcycle is > > extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
> >
> > My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get that shit > > off my chest :(
> >
> >
>


From: Mr Ed (someone@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:26:21 -0400

Crap..... Tell that to an officer that has just finished collecting little pieces of teenage flesh from the ditch after they were cut off by an aggressive driver that felt they were in his way.

Norm wrote:
> i think what you all have to realize is that(regardless of the specific > charge) the police services board was given clear direction as a result of a > public survey: "they want more traffice enforcement" The police service > will be increasing their traffic squad by up to 18 members !!!! Forget > about increasing regular patrol officers, lets hammer out the tics because > a percentage of that revenue is given back to the city from the city. It > has nothing to do with enforcement and everything to do with cash !!!
> "Mr Ed" <someone@no-spam> wrote in message > news:3F00D40A.9050204@no-spam > >>A few years ago I had the pleasure of entertaining an OPP officer in >>Orillia to the speed of $285.00. I was in fact speeding and he didn't >>drop it a bit for me. So I guess all I can say is "What exactly did it >>say on the big red sign in front of you at the intersection?" Every >>news broadcast for the past week has included a warning from all the >>police forces that they were going to be blitzing this holiday weekend.
>> I sympathize with you because most times you would have got away with >>it but they have been warning us and it appears they meant it. The rest >>of us are now warned at your expense. Thank You. Mr Ed.
>>
>>Dave Walker wrote:
>>
>>>so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old (at >>>the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE given >>>how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
>>>
>>>I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I get >>
> off > >>>onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have been >>>down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs, ...
>>>and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side streets,
>>
> ...
> >>>as >>>
>>>I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and have >>>NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just driving >>
> in > >>>the East/West direction like myself...
>>>
>>>SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at approximately >>>3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
>>>
>>>That cost me $110.
>>>
>>>what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to >>
> fight > >>>it ...
>>>
>>>I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either I'm >>
> out > >>>of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
>>>
>>>I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says >>
> "well,
> >>>I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you don't >>>either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
>>>
>>>The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike, and >>>it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get >>
> PULLED > >>>OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other >>>NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the SAME >>>CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was on >>
> his > >>>way) ...
>>>
>>>What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with something >>
> REAL > >>>to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the >>
> closest > >>>thing i can think of!!!
>>>
>>> the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a motorcycle >>
> is > >>>extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
>>>
>>>My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get that >>
> shit > >>>off my chest :(
>>>
>>>
>>
> >

From: "Tom B" (anyone@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:43:30 -0400

well Dave consider the pedestrian crossing the walkway without looking (not a stretch by any means) pushing their kid in a stroller...that's why Sunnyside and streets like it are being watched.

-- Tom B
"Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message news:RyfMa.20555$a51.12612@no-spam > well,... I mean i'm not gonna deny at least, that I've been guilty of > trying harder than I should have to beat a red ... that's definitely > something I could see deserving a ticket for some time maybe ...
>
> but on sunnyside? a completely residential street, with 4-way stops all > over the friggin place ... i've never seen anybody come off one of the side > streets ... so the fact that I didn't quite stop just doesn't seem like > that much of a DANGEROUS crime...
>
> to be honest, I can see as much danger from that as from doing 53km/h in a > 50km/h zone ...
> has anybody ever received a ticket for that?
>
> if not ... why is their room for cops to negotiate on what they deem to be > speeding, but not what they deem to be a stop?
>
> seems pretty cut & dry to me ...
> you're either doing the speed limit or you're speeding,...
> you're either stopping at the sign, or you're not fully stopping...
>
>
> -- > Dave > 86 GS750es >
>
>
> "Paul Woodward" <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote in message > news:cIeMa.31767$104.354827@no-spam > > I agree. I moved here over 5 years ago from Vancouver. Now drivers > there > > have their own problems at least on a par with those here. Soo don't > flame > > me for what I am about to say.
> > I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights > than > > this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > > seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through. They > hit > > these intersections with the lights already red. I am not just pointing > the > > finger at our four wheeled friends many motorcycles too. This combined > with > > the what seems to be a complete lack of knowledge about turning onto > > multilane streets (when you turn right stay in the right lane and vica > > versa) makes the surface streets pretty much a dangerous place.
> > Given that I don't trust anyone else to stop I always do. I just make it > a > > habit. Stop sign=stop. Not trying to be holier than thou just thinking > of > > it as life preserving.
> > Speaking of the cops, I got pulled over last summer. I was stopped > because > > the bungee net on my seat was coming loose and the cop was afraid it > might > > go into the wheel. There I am stopped, D&D pipes gleaming (and not very > > quiet) he looks at them and asks if they are for race only applications.
> > My only response was I bought them from a dealer when I bought the bike > and > > specifically asked for street pipes. He grins and says okay, have a good > > ride. I thanked him for taking the time to warn me about the situation > with > > the bungee net. This has been my only experience with the police with > the > > exception of the great bunch who come out and help with the Ride for Dad > > each year.
> >
> > My 2 cents > > Paul > > VTR > > "zeek" <zeek_97xx@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:b756809f.0307010211.52df1ea1@no-spam > > > Hmmm... (flame resistant gear on) Given how many bikes get taken out > > > by cagers blowing stop signs and lights I would have thought there'd > > > be some understanding of the concept. Just when I think the planets > > > have aligned... Put a foot down and keep your $110. Sounds > > > reasonable to me.
> > >
> > > Just a thought,
> > >
> > > Zeek > >
> >
>
>


From: "Battleax" (unavailable@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:51:06 -0400

As a motorcyclist I consider people who run stop signs my main enemy.
Regardless of the vehicle they are driving.
b
"Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message news:4N6Ma.26437$2ay.17910@no-spam > (and don't give a shit about people in cars doing the exact same thing just > 40 feet away from the scene...)
>
> --
> Dave > 86 GS750es >
>
>
> "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > news:rH6Ma.26378$2ay.10397@no-spam > > but seriously ... how random is this safety blitz if they target harmless > > motorcycle infractions?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave > > 86 GS750es > >
> >
> >
> > "Mr Ed" <someone@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:3F00D40A.9050204@no-spam > > > A few years ago I had the pleasure of entertaining an OPP officer in > > > Orillia to the speed of $285.00. I was in fact speeding and he didn't > > > drop it a bit for me. So I guess all I can say is "What exactly did it > > > say on the big red sign in front of you at the intersection?" Every > > > news broadcast for the past week has included a warning from all the > > > police forces that they were going to be blitzing this holiday weekend.
> > > I sympathize with you because most times you would have got away with > > > it but they have been warning us and it appears they meant it. The > rest > > > of us are now warned at your expense. Thank You. Mr Ed.
> > >
> > > Dave Walker wrote:
> > > > so needless to say, I have a fresh new rant, not even 20 minutes old > > (at > > > > the time of me STARTING to post this, which may take QUITE A WHILE > > given > > > > how pissed off I am about it ...) !!
> > > >
> > > > I am going down Bank, there's brutal road construction on it, so I > get > > off > > > > onto Sunnyside, heading towards Bronson where I live. If you have > been > > > > down that road, you know there is about 536 stupid 4-way stop signs,
> > ...
> > > > and there is no actual traffic that EVER comes from those side > streets,
> > ...
> > > > as > > > >
> > > > I have ridden them for basicly all the 3 years i've lived here, and > > have > > > > NEVER (to the BEST of my memory) seen anybody that wasn't just > driving > > in > > > > the East/West direction like myself...
> > > >
> > > > SO Anyways, I get to one of the FOUR WAY STOPSIGNS, and at > > approximately > > > > 3km/h, proceed without coming to a complete stop.
> > > >
> > > > That cost me $110.
> > > >
> > > > what a piece of shit fine that is and you bet your ass I'm going to > > fight > > > > it ...
> > > >
> > > > I haven't seen much bitching here on the NG about fines, so either > I'm > > out > > > > of line, or I assume you guys have been lucky ...
> > > >
> > > > I asked the cop if I will likely see my insurance go up, and he says > > "well,
> > > > I'm not going to call your insurance company, and so I suggest you > > don't > > > > either" ... "I don't tell my insurance company about mine ..."
> > > >
> > > > The main thing that pisses me off, is that when I drive a motorbike,
> > and > > > > it's not even new, or shiny, or doing over the speed limit ... I get > > PULLED > > > > OVER, yet, when the cop has NO PROBLEMS letting DOZENS of other > > > > NON-Motorcyclists do the EXACT SAME THING as me, even just at the > SAME > > > > CORNER he pulled me over at (but AFTER he made his left turn and was > on > > his > > > > way) ...
> > > >
> > > > What a bunch of shit this is ... I've never had to deal with > something > > REAL > > > > to complain about, like racism, or sexism ...but this is probly the > > closest > > > > thing i can think of!!!
> > > >
> > > > the fact that I LOSE the benefit of the doubt by driving a > motorcycle > > is > > > > extremely OUTRAGEOUS to me ...
> > > >
> > > > My apologies in advance (for the profanity'izm), but I had to get > that > > shit > > > > off my chest :(
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: "duane" (tps32@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:07:31 -0400

Dave:
I hear ya police do pay attention to bikes more then some cars (with the exception of beefed up hot rods).
You could take the ticket to court but chances of it being thrown out cause the cop wasn't there are slim (they are supposed to be at hearings) and you can't argue the fact you rolled it cause that is a violation, but you can plead to the judge about how you have been driving so long and never have been fined or somthing.And he may reduce the fine. Another thing is set up a video caera at that particular stop sign and video cars doing the same thing (rolling it) and present your case that way.
Bikes are like bright colored sports cars they are an easy target for police. Good luck man
Duane 93 Suzuki Katana
"Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message news:RyfMa.20555$a51.12612@no-spam > well,... I mean i'm not gonna deny at least, that I've been guilty of > trying harder than I should have to beat a red ... that's definitely > something I could see deserving a ticket for some time maybe ...
>
> but on sunnyside? a completely residential street, with 4-way stops all > over the friggin place ... i've never seen anybody come off one of the side > streets ... so the fact that I didn't quite stop just doesn't seem like > that much of a DANGEROUS crime...
>
> to be honest, I can see as much danger from that as from doing 53km/h in a > 50km/h zone ...
> has anybody ever received a ticket for that?
>
> if not ... why is their room for cops to negotiate on what they deem to be > speeding, but not what they deem to be a stop?
>
> seems pretty cut & dry to me ...
> you're either doing the speed limit or you're speeding,...
> you're either stopping at the sign, or you're not fully stopping...
>
>
> --
> Dave > 86 GS750es >
>
>
> "Paul Woodward" <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote in message > news:cIeMa.31767$104.354827@no-spam > > I agree. I moved here over 5 years ago from Vancouver. Now drivers > there > > have their own problems at least on a par with those here. Soo don't > flame > > me for what I am about to say.
> > I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights > than > > this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > > seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through. They > hit > > these intersections with the lights already red. I am not just pointing > the > > finger at our four wheeled friends many motorcycles too. This combined > with > > the what seems to be a complete lack of knowledge about turning onto > > multilane streets (when you turn right stay in the right lane and vica > > versa) makes the surface streets pretty much a dangerous place.
> > Given that I don't trust anyone else to stop I always do. I just make it > a > > habit. Stop sign=stop. Not trying to be holier than thou just thinking > of > > it as life preserving.
> > Speaking of the cops, I got pulled over last summer. I was stopped > because > > the bungee net on my seat was coming loose and the cop was afraid it > might > > go into the wheel. There I am stopped, D&D pipes gleaming (and not very > > quiet) he looks at them and asks if they are for race only applications.
> > My only response was I bought them from a dealer when I bought the bike > and > > specifically asked for street pipes. He grins and says okay, have a good > > ride. I thanked him for taking the time to warn me about the situation > with > > the bungee net. This has been my only experience with the police with > the > > exception of the great bunch who come out and help with the Ride for Dad > > each year.
> >
> > My 2 cents > > Paul > > VTR > > "zeek" <zeek_97xx@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:b756809f.0307010211.52df1ea1@no-spam > > > Hmmm... (flame resistant gear on) Given how many bikes get taken out > > > by cagers blowing stop signs and lights I would have thought there'd > > > be some understanding of the concept. Just when I think the planets > > > have aligned... Put a foot down and keep your $110. Sounds > > > reasonable to me.
> > >
> > > Just a thought,
> > >
> > > Zeek > >
> >
>
>


From: Mr Ed (someone@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:19:13 -0400

Here's a new concept..... You rolled through, that's an offence, pay the fine (grudgingly) and then petition the city to review it's policy on so damn many 4 way stops in the residential area. I agree with you.... there are way too many of them. Then, after they remove half of the signs the city will only have half as many people complaining about all the stop signs in the residential areas of the city.

duane wrote:
> Dave:
> I hear ya police do pay attention to bikes more then some cars (with the > exception of beefed up hot rods).
> You could take the ticket to court but chances of it being thrown out cause > the cop wasn't there are slim (they are supposed to be at hearings) and you > can't argue the fact you rolled it cause that is a violation, but you can > plead to the judge about how you have been driving so long and never have > been fined or somthing.And he may reduce the fine. Another thing is set up a > video caera at that particular stop sign and video cars doing the same thing > (rolling it) and present your case that way.
> Bikes are like bright colored sports cars they are an easy target for > police. Good luck man > > Duane > 93 Suzuki Katana > > > > "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > news:RyfMa.20555$a51.12612@no-spam > >>well,... I mean i'm not gonna deny at least, that I've been guilty of >>trying harder than I should have to beat a red ... that's definitely >>something I could see deserving a ticket for some time maybe ...
>>
>>but on sunnyside? a completely residential street, with 4-way stops all >>over the friggin place ... i've never seen anybody come off one of the > > side > >>streets ... so the fact that I didn't quite stop just doesn't seem like >>that much of a DANGEROUS crime...
>>
>>to be honest, I can see as much danger from that as from doing 53km/h in a >>50km/h zone ...
>>has anybody ever received a ticket for that?
>>
>>if not ... why is their room for cops to negotiate on what they deem to be >>speeding, but not what they deem to be a stop?
>>
>>seems pretty cut & dry to me ...
>>you're either doing the speed limit or you're speeding,...
>>you're either stopping at the sign, or you're not fully stopping...
>>
>>
>>--
>>Dave >>86 GS750es >>
>>
>>
>>"Paul Woodward" <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote in message >>news:cIeMa.31767$104.354827@no-spam >>
>>>I agree. I moved here over 5 years ago from Vancouver. Now drivers >>
>>there >>
>>>have their own problems at least on a par with those here. Soo don't >>
>>flame >>
>>>me for what I am about to say.
>>>I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights >>
>>than >>
>>>this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who >>>seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through. They >>
>>hit >>
>>>these intersections with the lights already red. I am not just pointing >>
>>the >>
>>>finger at our four wheeled friends many motorcycles too. This combined >>
>>with >>
>>>the what seems to be a complete lack of knowledge about turning onto >>>multilane streets (when you turn right stay in the right lane and vica >>>versa) makes the surface streets pretty much a dangerous place.
>>>Given that I don't trust anyone else to stop I always do. I just make >>
> it > >>a >>
>>>habit. Stop sign=stop. Not trying to be holier than thou just thinking >>
>>of >>
>>>it as life preserving.
>>>Speaking of the cops, I got pulled over last summer. I was stopped >>
>>because >>
>>>the bungee net on my seat was coming loose and the cop was afraid it >>
>>might >>
>>>go into the wheel. There I am stopped, D&D pipes gleaming (and not very >>>quiet) he looks at them and asks if they are for race only >>
> applications.
> >>>My only response was I bought them from a dealer when I bought the bike >>
>>and >>
>>>specifically asked for street pipes. He grins and says okay, have a >>
> good > >>>ride. I thanked him for taking the time to warn me about the situation >>
>>with >>
>>>the bungee net. This has been my only experience with the police with >>
>>the >>
>>>exception of the great bunch who come out and help with the Ride for Dad >>>each year.
>>>
>>>My 2 cents >>>Paul >>>VTR >>>"zeek" <zeek_97xx@no-spam> wrote in message >>>news:b756809f.0307010211.52df1ea1@no-spam >>>
>>>>Hmmm... (flame resistant gear on) Given how many bikes get taken out >>>>by cagers blowing stop signs and lights I would have thought there'd >>>>be some understanding of the concept. Just when I think the planets >>>>have aligned... Put a foot down and keep your $110. Sounds >>>>reasonable to me.
>>>>
>>>>Just a thought,
>>>>
>>>>Zeek >>>
>>>
>>
> >

From: "greg" (x@no-spam)
Subject: Rolling stops
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:12:27 -0400

I always roll stops at 1 or 2 kph. I slow down, look everywhere, and go.
If there's somebody about to cross the street with or without a stroller,
with or without looking, at that speed I DO have time to stop, and I DO stop.
If a car is coming, I have way enough time to judge if he's gonna stop, and if I know he will and it's my turn to go, I go. If I have clear view and see nobody, I roll. If there's a pedestrian on the corner, I pay him some attention and am ready to stop. If anyone is coming on the corner accross with either the intention to do the the same, or the intention to do a full stop, in both cases we end up both stopping and giving way to the one with priority.
How dangerous am I?
I never had an accident that way, nor have I almost had one, nor can I see a situation where this is more dangerous than doing a full stop (simply because in these situations, reduced visibility being one of them, I do a full stop).
The other day I saw a cop was sitting on the opposite corner. I don't know if he was waiting for speeders (I live in a 40kph zone) or people rolling the stop, but I slowed down as usual, looked at the lane he was on, looked at the other lane, looked at him, crossed the stop line and rolled. What do you think the cop did? Nothing. I feel sorry for you Dave to have less luck.

--
Chris '93 ZX-6

"Tom B" <anyone@no-spam> wrote in message news:8egMa.22788$U02.375523@no-spam > well Dave consider the pedestrian crossing the walkway without looking (not > a stretch by any means) pushing their kid in a stroller...that's why > Sunnyside and streets like it are being watched.
>
> --
> Tom B >
>
> "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > news:RyfMa.20555$a51.12612@no-spam > > well,... I mean i'm not gonna deny at least, that I've been guilty of > > trying harder than I should have to beat a red ... that's definitely > > something I could see deserving a ticket for some time maybe ...
> >
> > but on sunnyside? a completely residential street, with 4-way stops all > > over the friggin place ... i've never seen anybody come off one of the > side > > streets ... so the fact that I didn't quite stop just doesn't seem like > > that much of a DANGEROUS crime...
> >
> > to be honest, I can see as much danger from that as from doing 53km/h in a > > 50km/h zone ...
> > has anybody ever received a ticket for that?
> >
> > if not ... why is their room for cops to negotiate on what they deem to be > > speeding, but not what they deem to be a stop?
> >
> > seems pretty cut & dry to me ...
> > you're either doing the speed limit or you're speeding,...
> > you're either stopping at the sign, or you're not fully stopping...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave > > 86 GS750es > >
> >
> >
> > "Paul Woodward" <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:cIeMa.31767$104.354827@no-spam > > > I agree. I moved here over 5 years ago from Vancouver. Now drivers > > there > > > have their own problems at least on a par with those here. Soo don't > > flame > > > me for what I am about to say.
> > > I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights > > than > > > this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > > > seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through. They > > hit > > > these intersections with the lights already red. I am not just pointing > > the > > > finger at our four wheeled friends many motorcycles too. This combined > > with > > > the what seems to be a complete lack of knowledge about turning onto > > > multilane streets (when you turn right stay in the right lane and vica > > > versa) makes the surface streets pretty much a dangerous place.
> > > Given that I don't trust anyone else to stop I always do. I just make > it > > a > > > habit. Stop sign=stop. Not trying to be holier than thou just thinking > > of > > > it as life preserving.
> > > Speaking of the cops, I got pulled over last summer. I was stopped > > because > > > the bungee net on my seat was coming loose and the cop was afraid it > > might > > > go into the wheel. There I am stopped, D&D pipes gleaming (and not very > > > quiet) he looks at them and asks if they are for race only > applications.
> > > My only response was I bought them from a dealer when I bought the bike > > and > > > specifically asked for street pipes. He grins and says okay, have a > good > > > ride. I thanked him for taking the time to warn me about the situation > > with > > > the bungee net. This has been my only experience with the police with > > the > > > exception of the great bunch who come out and help with the Ride for Dad > > > each year.
> > >
> > > My 2 cents > > > Paul > > > VTR > > > "zeek" <zeek_97xx@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:b756809f.0307010211.52df1ea1@no-spam > > > > Hmmm... (flame resistant gear on) Given how many bikes get taken out > > > > by cagers blowing stop signs and lights I would have thought there'd > > > > be some understanding of the concept. Just when I think the planets > > > > have aligned... Put a foot down and keep your $110. Sounds > > > > reasonable to me.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought,
> > > >
> > > > Zeek > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: Joe Canuck (Joe_Canuck@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:29:22 -0400

It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.

-- "Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Rolling stops
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:14:54 GMT

see that's basicly exactly what I mean ...
the fact that there's no consistency ...
what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander, unless the cop decides he wants the gander to get a damn ticket ...

it's crap, and i'm gonna do my best to fight it based on prejudice...
(I did NOT speed to take off after rolling, nor into the stop sign area, I pulled over immediately, did nothing wrong other than speeding oh, about 3km/h over the posted "0 km/h limit" ...

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"greg" <x@no-spam> wrote in message news:QpiMa.2794$eF3.387020@no-spam > I always roll stops at 1 or 2 kph. I slow down, look everywhere, and go.
> If there's somebody about to cross the street with or without a stroller,
> with or without looking, at that speed I DO have time to stop, and I DO > stop.
> If a car is coming, I have way enough time to judge if he's gonna stop,
and > if I know he will and it's my turn to go, I go. If I have clear view and see > nobody, I roll. If there's a pedestrian on the corner, I pay him some > attention and am ready to stop. If anyone is coming on the corner accross > with either the intention to do the the same, or the intention to do a full > stop, in both cases we end up both stopping and giving way to the one with > priority.
> How dangerous am I?
> I never had an accident that way, nor have I almost had one, nor can I see a > situation where this is more dangerous than doing a full stop (simply > because in these situations, reduced visibility being one of them, I do a > full stop).
> The other day I saw a cop was sitting on the opposite corner. I don't know > if he was waiting for speeders (I live in a 40kph zone) or people rolling > the stop, but I slowed down as usual, looked at the lane he was on,
looked > at the other lane, looked at him, crossed the stop line and rolled. What do > you think the cop did? Nothing. I feel sorry for you Dave to have less luck.
>
>
> --
> Chris > '93 ZX-6
>
>
> "Tom B" <anyone@no-spam> wrote in message > news:8egMa.22788$U02.375523@no-spam > > well Dave consider the pedestrian crossing the walkway without looking > (not > > a stretch by any means) pushing their kid in a stroller...that's why > > Sunnyside and streets like it are being watched.
> >
> > --
> > Tom B > >
> >
> > "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:RyfMa.20555$a51.12612@no-spam > > > well,... I mean i'm not gonna deny at least, that I've been guilty of > > > trying harder than I should have to beat a red ... that's definitely > > > something I could see deserving a ticket for some time maybe ...
> > >
> > > but on sunnyside? a completely residential street, with 4-way stops all > > > over the friggin place ... i've never seen anybody come off one of the > > side > > > streets ... so the fact that I didn't quite stop just doesn't seem like > > > that much of a DANGEROUS crime...
> > >
> > > to be honest, I can see as much danger from that as from doing 53km/h in > a > > > 50km/h zone ...
> > > has anybody ever received a ticket for that?
> > >
> > > if not ... why is their room for cops to negotiate on what they deem to > be > > > speeding, but not what they deem to be a stop?
> > >
> > > seems pretty cut & dry to me ...
> > > you're either doing the speed limit or you're speeding,...
> > > you're either stopping at the sign, or you're not fully stopping...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dave > > > 86 GS750es > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Paul Woodward" <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:cIeMa.31767$104.354827@no-spam > > > > I agree. I moved here over 5 years ago from Vancouver. Now drivers > > > there > > > > have their own problems at least on a par with those here. Soo don't > > > flame > > > > me for what I am about to say.
> > > > I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights > > > than > > > > this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > > > > seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through.
They > > > hit > > > > these intersections with the lights already red. I am not just > pointing > > > the > > > > finger at our four wheeled friends many motorcycles too. This > combined > > > with > > > > the what seems to be a complete lack of knowledge about turning onto > > > > multilane streets (when you turn right stay in the right lane and vica > > > > versa) makes the surface streets pretty much a dangerous place.
> > > > Given that I don't trust anyone else to stop I always do. I just make > > it > > > a > > > > habit. Stop sign=stop. Not trying to be holier than thou just > thinking > > > of > > > > it as life preserving.
> > > > Speaking of the cops, I got pulled over last summer. I was stopped > > > because > > > > the bungee net on my seat was coming loose and the cop was afraid it > > > might > > > > go into the wheel. There I am stopped, D&D pipes gleaming (and not > very > > > > quiet) he looks at them and asks if they are for race only > > applications.
> > > > My only response was I bought them from a dealer when I bought the > bike > > > and > > > > specifically asked for street pipes. He grins and says okay, have a > > good > > > > ride. I thanked him for taking the time to warn me about the > situation > > > with > > > > the bungee net. This has been my only experience with the police with > > > the > > > > exception of the great bunch who come out and help with the Ride for > Dad > > > > each year.
> > > >
> > > > My 2 cents > > > > Paul > > > > VTR > > > > "zeek" <zeek_97xx@no-spam> wrote in message > > > > news:b756809f.0307010211.52df1ea1@no-spam > > > > > Hmmm... (flame resistant gear on) Given how many bikes get taken > out > > > > > by cagers blowing stop signs and lights I would have thought there'd > > > > > be some understanding of the concept. Just when I think the planets > > > > > have aligned... Put a foot down and keep your $110. Sounds > > > > > reasonable to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a thought,
> > > > >
> > > > > Zeek > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:15:57 GMT

everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody even tries to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing the same thing in front of and behind me...

????????????????????????????

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam >
> It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
>
> -- > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> -Joe Canuck >


From: "Andre" (zx7ae1NOSPAM@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:56:03 GMT

Hey Dave,
The cop pulled you over because he wanted to and he saw you go through the stop sign. IT is kinda like when he/she pulls over a speeder on the Queensway and you are able to blow past him as he is already busy picking on that other speeder.

I hope you did not have this attitude with the cop or showed it Dave. Here's why: I went through a stop sign. I did a rolling stop. The cop pulled me over and went through the routine of asking if I knew why. I said Yes I do.
Sorry. The cop ended charging with a Bylaw offense of not obeying a City sign. Ticket was $30 and no points. Most cops, I know, do an attitude check.
And are willing to help if you fess up w/o an issue or aleast be pleasant.
This has help several times even when I was pulled over for 150kms on my bike a few years back. I walk way w/o a ticket (this is unusaul).

Dave, they have a job to do and you just got caught at that particular time.

--
Andre BlkKat 600
"Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message news:1_lMa.36150$x4o.17365@no-spam > everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody even tries > to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing the > same thing in front of and behind me...
>
> ????????????????????????????
>
> --
> Dave > 86 GS750es >
>
>
> "Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message > news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam > >
> > It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
> >
> > --
> > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> > -Joe Canuck > >
>
>


From: "Mustangbrad" (brad@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:14:41 GMT

Yeah, attitude check, doesn't matter what attitude you have, you can act like a dic or the pope, it doesn't matter. If these guys haven't met their quota for the month your getting a ticket unless of course your real cute and have a pen and paper handy to write down your phone number. And no, I didn't get my fine reduced, that's like begging for mercy and I wasn't about to beg a crooked cop and a language bias judge for a reduced fine. I basically told the judge that he was out of his mind if he thinks that people on the queensway should leave 10 car length spaces while in rush hour traffic.

Mr.Ed, I got pulled over because the cop thought he saw me pass 10 cars in a bus lane. Meanwhile, the cop was beside a big rig while I was avoiding the accident and had no way of knowing how many cars I passed. As I said, the guy in front jammed on his brakes to get back into the lane to Kanata, I was the guy who was 3 spaces behind him who had to make a rational decision and I paid the price. As I said, next time, my front bumper will meet the back of the ass who pulls that crap in front of me, I am not paying another fine for someone's impatient.

"Andre" <zx7ae1NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message news:DzmMa.24568$a51.6081@no-spam > Hey Dave,
> The cop pulled you over because he wanted to and he saw you go through the > stop sign. IT is kinda like when he/she pulls over a speeder on the > Queensway and you are able to blow past him as he is already busy picking on > that other speeder.
>
> I hope you did not have this attitude with the cop or showed it Dave.
Here's > why: I went through a stop sign. I did a rolling stop. The cop pulled me > over and went through the routine of asking if I knew why. I said Yes I do.
> Sorry. The cop ended charging with a Bylaw offense of not obeying a City > sign. Ticket was $30 and no points. Most cops, I know, do an attitude check.
> And are willing to help if you fess up w/o an issue or aleast be pleasant.
> This has help several times even when I was pulled over for 150kms on my > bike a few years back. I walk way w/o a ticket (this is unusaul).
>
> Dave, they have a job to do and you just got caught at that particular time.
>
> --
> Andre > BlkKat 600
> "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > news:1_lMa.36150$x4o.17365@no-spam > > everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody even > tries > > to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing the > > same thing in front of and behind me...
> >
> > ????????????????????????????
> >
> > --
> > Dave > > 86 GS750es > >
> >
> >
> > "Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam > > >
> > > It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> > > -Joe Canuck > > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: "Bill" (wts0156NOSPAM@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:54:48 -0500

Only problem with that is the cops will still charge you with following to close.

--
Bill
Please remove 'NOSPAM' to mail "Mustangbrad" <brad@no-spam> wrote in message news:BBoMa.37428$x4o.21406@no-spam > Yeah, attitude check, doesn't matter what attitude you have, you can act > like a dic or the pope, it doesn't matter. If these guys haven't met their > quota for the month your getting a ticket unless of course your real cute > and have a pen and paper handy to write down your phone number. And no, I > didn't get my fine reduced, that's like begging for mercy and I wasn't about > to beg a crooked cop and a language bias judge for a reduced fine. I > basically told the judge that he was out of his mind if he thinks that > people on the queensway should leave 10 car length spaces while in rush hour > traffic.
>
> Mr.Ed, I got pulled over because the cop thought he saw me pass 10 cars in a > bus lane. Meanwhile, the cop was beside a big rig while I was avoiding the > accident and had no way of knowing how many cars I passed. As I said, the > guy in front jammed on his brakes to get back into the lane to Kanata, I was > the guy who was 3 spaces behind him who had to make a rational decision and > I paid the price. As I said, next time, my front bumper will meet the back > of the ass who pulls that crap in front of me, I am not paying another fine > for someone's impatient.
>
>
>
> "Andre" <zx7ae1NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message > news:DzmMa.24568$a51.6081@no-spam > > Hey Dave,
> > The cop pulled you over because he wanted to and he saw you go through the > > stop sign. IT is kinda like when he/she pulls over a speeder on the > > Queensway and you are able to blow past him as he is already busy picking > on > > that other speeder.
> >
> > I hope you did not have this attitude with the cop or showed it Dave.
> Here's > > why: I went through a stop sign. I did a rolling stop. The cop pulled me > > over and went through the routine of asking if I knew why. I said Yes I > do.
> > Sorry. The cop ended charging with a Bylaw offense of not obeying a City > > sign. Ticket was $30 and no points. Most cops, I know, do an attitude > check.
> > And are willing to help if you fess up w/o an issue or aleast be pleasant.
> > This has help several times even when I was pulled over for 150kms on my > > bike a few years back. I walk way w/o a ticket (this is unusaul).
> >
> > Dave, they have a job to do and you just got caught at that particular > time.
> >
> > --
> > Andre > > BlkKat 600
> > "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:1_lMa.36150$x4o.17365@no-spam > > > everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody even > > tries > > > to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing the > > > same thing in front of and behind me...
> > >
> > > ????????????????????????????
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dave > > > 86 GS750es > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam > > > >
> > > > It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> > > > -Joe Canuck > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: Dave Cruickshank (dave@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:59:06 GMT

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:51:06 -0400, "Battleax"
<unavailable@no-spam> wrote:

>As a motorcyclist I consider people who run stop signs my main enemy.
>Regardless of the vehicle they are driving.
>b
That was out of line. RUNNING a stop sign is one thing.

Slowing down (as close to a stop as you can without putting your feet down), looking both ways, and proceeding if it's safe is another thing ENTIRELY...

I rarely put my feet down at a 4 way stop. That doesn't mean I RUN them recklessly.

Think about your wording.

--------
Dave Cruickshank '02 S/S Volusia www.dc-digital.net

From: Dave Cruickshank (dave@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:02:02 GMT

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:59:17 -0400, "Paul Woodward"
<woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote:

>I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights than >this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who >seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through.
Where the hell do you drive? I've lived here for 2 years, and never seen anyone intentionally blow a red light.

--------
Dave Cruickshank '02 S/S Volusia www.dc-digital.net

From: Dave Cruickshank (dave@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS ((my 2 cents)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:07:07 GMT

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 06:11:47 GMT, "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam>
wrote:

>now that's more like it :)
>some old school N.W.A. Stylez yo !!!!!!
>
>not gonna fuss to much about what I did wrong, I know what i did ... and it >was wrong ... but why he picked me instead of the ZILLIONS of others in the >area that did the same damn thing,... i HATE that fact...

It sucks being the example don't it?

--------
Dave Cruickshank '02 S/S Volusia www.dc-digital.net

From: "Mustangbrad" (brad@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:30:30 GMT

Oh well, what can I say.

"Bill" <wts0156NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message news:wbpMa.24455$I7.36682@no-spam > Only problem with that is the cops will still charge you with following to > close.
>
> --
> Bill >
> Please remove 'NOSPAM' to mail > "Mustangbrad" <brad@no-spam> wrote in message > news:BBoMa.37428$x4o.21406@no-spam > > Yeah, attitude check, doesn't matter what attitude you have, you can act > > like a dic or the pope, it doesn't matter. If these guys haven't met their > > quota for the month your getting a ticket unless of course your real cute > > and have a pen and paper handy to write down your phone number. And no,
I > > didn't get my fine reduced, that's like begging for mercy and I wasn't > about > > to beg a crooked cop and a language bias judge for a reduced fine. I > > basically told the judge that he was out of his mind if he thinks that > > people on the queensway should leave 10 car length spaces while in rush > hour > > traffic.
> >
> > Mr.Ed, I got pulled over because the cop thought he saw me pass 10 cars in > a > > bus lane. Meanwhile, the cop was beside a big rig while I was avoiding the > > accident and had no way of knowing how many cars I passed. As I said,
the > > guy in front jammed on his brakes to get back into the lane to Kanata, I > was > > the guy who was 3 spaces behind him who had to make a rational decision > and > > I paid the price. As I said, next time, my front bumper will meet the back > > of the ass who pulls that crap in front of me, I am not paying another > fine > > for someone's impatient.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Andre" <zx7ae1NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:DzmMa.24568$a51.6081@no-spam > > > Hey Dave,
> > > The cop pulled you over because he wanted to and he saw you go through > the > > > stop sign. IT is kinda like when he/she pulls over a speeder on the > > > Queensway and you are able to blow past him as he is already busy > picking > > on > > > that other speeder.
> > >
> > > I hope you did not have this attitude with the cop or showed it Dave.
> > Here's > > > why: I went through a stop sign. I did a rolling stop. The cop pulled > me > > > over and went through the routine of asking if I knew why. I said Yes I > > do.
> > > Sorry. The cop ended charging with a Bylaw offense of not obeying a > City > > > sign. Ticket was $30 and no points. Most cops, I know, do an attitude > > check.
> > > And are willing to help if you fess up w/o an issue or aleast be > pleasant.
> > > This has help several times even when I was pulled over for 150kms on my > > > bike a few years back. I walk way w/o a ticket (this is unusaul).
> > >
> > > Dave, they have a job to do and you just got caught at that particular > > time.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andre > > > BlkKat 600
> > > "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:1_lMa.36150$x4o.17365@no-spam > > > > everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody even > > > tries > > > > to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing > the > > > > same thing in front of and behind me...
> > > >
> > > > ????????????????????????????
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dave > > > > 86 GS750es > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message > > > > news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam > > > > >
> > > > > It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> > > > > -Joe Canuck > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: Joe Canuck (Joe_Canuck@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:42:17 -0400

Well Dave... not everyone gets pulled over. It was *your* turn that day, some other day it will be the other *person's* turn while you blow by.

Plenty of drivers on the road do rolling stops... but I suspect there is some reason the sign says "STOP" rather than "YIELD".

Lets reverse the situation a little here. Suppose for a second someone in your family gets injured because someone fails to stop at the STOP sign... you'd be pissed just as you are now.

-- "Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

From: "Chris" (germinal99@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:50:04 -0400

> I've lived here for 2 years, and never seen anyone[...]
I can't believe you've never seen anyone do it. Whenever you're sitting at the red light, just watch the lights accross, and watch the cars. You will see.

> intentionally blow a red light.
Or maybe it's not intentionnal, the light turn yellow and one's going too fast and don't have time to stop. So they just roll. And intentional or not,
it IS routinely.

> Where the hell do you drive?
I think you can see it everywhere in the city. I see it constantly as well.
In fact last summer, one tried to blow a red light from BEHIND. I was bikeless for one month...
And I don't know if Tom picked his stats from the number of tickets for red lights in the cities accross Canada, but if so, some facts may explain:
- The yellow lights are shorter here than in Montreal (I did notice anyways, although I didn't yet take the time to clock them at both places,
please talk anyone if you did, and tell me if I'm right or wrong) (did anyone else notice?)
- That gives less time to brake, forcing many drivers to go through because neither do they have time to brake, nor to pass before it turns red - In Ottawa, when the set of lights turns red, it takes approx. one second before the set accross turns green. During this delay, all lights are red on the intersection.
- My theory: Knowing this, the cops here rarely give tickets to people who are in the intersection when their light turns red or come in the intersection after. I see a lot of people blowing red lights that way and police doing nothing (did anyone else notice?). I think if they gave tickets all the time for that, there would be more tickets here than in Montreal for red lights (hey, that's just my theory here!)

--
Chris '93 ZX-6

"Dave Cruickshank" <dave@no-spam> wrote in message news:t684gvst0eap8s4kuabi7sgp4qo8t80qcp@no-spam > On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:59:17 -0400, "Paul Woodward"
> <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights than > >this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > >seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through.
>

>
>
>
> --------
> Dave Cruickshank > '02 S/S Volusia > www.dc-digital.net

From: "Paul Woodward" (woodwardpg@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:14:12 -0400

Come for a walk with me downtown some day or just about anywhere else in this fair city. I only know what I see. It is not something that has gone un-noticed by others. Just after I moved here there was a horrendus accident at Trim and Tenth line that killed the son of a local business man.
There was a huge uiproar then about all the red lights that are run. It was this event that helped provide the impetus for the installation of red light cameras at various locations.

When I was living in Orleans I went to court as a witness to an accident that was caused by guess what a person running a red light. That was at the corner of Jean D'Arc and Orleans Boulevard recently named as one of the most dangerous intersections in the city with the main reason being disregard for the lights. I lived with that intersection for three years. A prudent person never proceeded through on the green without being very careful.

I now live in Rockland. In the morning one does not venture onto highway 17
when the light turns green until the last of the drivers running the yellow and then the early red have gone through.

Paul VTR "Dave Cruickshank" <dave@no-spam> wrote in message news:t684gvst0eap8s4kuabi7sgp4qo8t80qcp@no-spam > On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:59:17 -0400, "Paul Woodward"
> <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights than > >this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > >seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through.
>
> Where the hell do you drive? I've lived here for 2 years, and never > seen anyone intentionally blow a red light.
>
>
>
> --------
> Dave Cruickshank > '02 S/S Volusia > www.dc-digital.net

From: "Mustangbrad" (brad@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 02:15:29 GMT

Would not on the bike bro, i'm not insane. The cop told me I'd be better off hitting the guy instead of avoiding a collision, I might have a chance to prove myself in a different manner.

"greg" <x@no-spam> wrote in message news:sNqMa.4219$eF3.466476@no-spam > I think it's generally very difficult to prove it's not your fault when you > rearend someone. Not only you'll (maybe?) be charged for following too > close, but you'll also have a "responsible accident" on your file.
>
> Beside, for safety's sake, if it happens when you're riding your bike,
> please don't purposely hit anyone's bumper...
>
> --
> Chris > '93 ZX-6
>
>
> "Bill" <wts0156NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message > news:wbpMa.24455$I7.36682@no-spam > > Only problem with that is the cops will still charge you with following to > > close.
> >
> > --
> > Bill > >
> > Please remove 'NOSPAM' to mail > > "Mustangbrad" <brad@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:BBoMa.37428$x4o.21406@no-spam > > > Yeah, attitude check, doesn't matter what attitude you have, you can act > > > like a dic or the pope, it doesn't matter. If these guys haven't met > their > > > quota for the month your getting a ticket unless of course your real > cute > > > and have a pen and paper handy to write down your phone number. And no,
> I > > > didn't get my fine reduced, that's like begging for mercy and I wasn't > > about > > > to beg a crooked cop and a language bias judge for a reduced fine. I > > > basically told the judge that he was out of his mind if he thinks that > > > people on the queensway should leave 10 car length spaces while in rush > > hour > > > traffic.
> > >
> > > Mr.Ed, I got pulled over because the cop thought he saw me pass 10
cars > in > > a > > > bus lane. Meanwhile, the cop was beside a big rig while I was avoiding > the > > > accident and had no way of knowing how many cars I passed. As I said,
> the > > > guy in front jammed on his brakes to get back into the lane to Kanata,
I > > was > > > the guy who was 3 spaces behind him who had to make a rational decision > > and > > > I paid the price. As I said, next time, my front bumper will meet the > back > > > of the ass who pulls that crap in front of me, I am not paying another > > fine > > > for someone's impatient.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Andre" <zx7ae1NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:DzmMa.24568$a51.6081@no-spam > > > > Hey Dave,
> > > > The cop pulled you over because he wanted to and he saw you go through > > the > > > > stop sign. IT is kinda like when he/she pulls over a speeder on the > > > > Queensway and you are able to blow past him as he is already busy > > picking > > > on > > > > that other speeder.
> > > >
> > > > I hope you did not have this attitude with the cop or showed it Dave.
> > > Here's > > > > why: I went through a stop sign. I did a rolling stop. The cop > pulled > > me > > > > over and went through the routine of asking if I knew why. I said Yes > I > > > do.
> > > > Sorry. The cop ended charging with a Bylaw offense of not obeying a > > City > > > > sign. Ticket was $30 and no points. Most cops, I know, do an attitude > > > check.
> > > > And are willing to help if you fess up w/o an issue or aleast be > > pleasant.
> > > > This has help several times even when I was pulled over for 150kms on > my > > > > bike a few years back. I walk way w/o a ticket (this is unusaul).
> > > >
> > > > Dave, they have a job to do and you just got caught at that particular > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andre > > > > BlkKat 600
> > > > "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > > > > news:1_lMa.36150$x4o.17365@no-spam > > > > > everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody > even > > > > tries > > > > > to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing > > the > > > > > same thing in front of and behind me...
> > > > >
> > > > > ????????????????????????????
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dave > > > > > 86 GS750es > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message > > > > > news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam > > > > > >
> > > > > > It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> > > > > > -Joe Canuck > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:48:44 GMT

While I do understand these valid points you guys are bringing up,
regarding blowing red lights... I would just like to make the clear and *distinct* difference between blowing a red light at an intersection and slowing to a crawl then safely proceeding when clear at a 4-way stop...

:)

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Dave Cruickshank" <dave@no-spam> wrote in message news:t684gvst0eap8s4kuabi7sgp4qo8t80qcp@no-spam > On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:59:17 -0400, "Paul Woodward"
> <woodwardpg@no-spam> wrote:
>
> >I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights than > >this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > >seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through.
>
> Where the hell do you drive? I've lived here for 2 years, and never > seen anyone intentionally blow a red light.
>
>
>
> --------
> Dave Cruickshank > '02 S/S Volusia > www.dc-digital.net

From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:52:39 GMT

I know wut you can F%($'ing say ... get a grill guard for your car like the friggin General Lee had ...

:)

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Mustangbrad" <brad@no-spam> wrote in message news:GIpMa.37942$x4o.28640@no-spam > Oh well, what can I say.
>
>
> "Bill" <wts0156NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message > news:wbpMa.24455$I7.36682@no-spam > > Only problem with that is the cops will still charge you with following to > > close.
> >
> > --
> > Bill > >
> > Please remove 'NOSPAM' to mail > > "Mustangbrad" <brad@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:BBoMa.37428$x4o.21406@no-spam > > > Yeah, attitude check, doesn't matter what attitude you have, you can act > > > like a dic or the pope, it doesn't matter. If these guys haven't met > their > > > quota for the month your getting a ticket unless of course your real > cute > > > and have a pen and paper handy to write down your phone number. And no,
> I > > > didn't get my fine reduced, that's like begging for mercy and I wasn't > > about > > > to beg a crooked cop and a language bias judge for a reduced fine. I > > > basically told the judge that he was out of his mind if he thinks that > > > people on the queensway should leave 10 car length spaces while in rush > > hour > > > traffic.
> > >
> > > Mr.Ed, I got pulled over because the cop thought he saw me pass 10
cars > in > > a > > > bus lane. Meanwhile, the cop was beside a big rig while I was avoiding > the > > > accident and had no way of knowing how many cars I passed. As I said,
> the > > > guy in front jammed on his brakes to get back into the lane to Kanata, I > > was > > > the guy who was 3 spaces behind him who had to make a rational decision > > and > > > I paid the price. As I said, next time, my front bumper will meet the > back > > > of the ass who pulls that crap in front of me, I am not paying another > > fine > > > for someone's impatient.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Andre" <zx7ae1NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message > > > news:DzmMa.24568$a51.6081@no-spam > > > > Hey Dave,
> > > > The cop pulled you over because he wanted to and he saw you go through > > the > > > > stop sign. IT is kinda like when he/she pulls over a speeder on the > > > > Queensway and you are able to blow past him as he is already busy > > picking > > > on > > > > that other speeder.
> > > >
> > > > I hope you did not have this attitude with the cop or showed it Dave.
> > > Here's > > > > why: I went through a stop sign. I did a rolling stop. The cop > pulled > > me > > > > over and went through the routine of asking if I knew why. I said Yes > I > > > do.
> > > > Sorry. The cop ended charging with a Bylaw offense of not obeying a > > City > > > > sign. Ticket was $30 and no points. Most cops, I know, do an attitude > > > check.
> > > > And are willing to help if you fess up w/o an issue or aleast be > > pleasant.
> > > > This has help several times even when I was pulled over for 150kms on > my > > > > bike a few years back. I walk way w/o a ticket (this is unusaul).
> > > >
> > > > Dave, they have a job to do and you just got caught at that particular > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andre > > > > BlkKat 600
> > > > "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > > > > news:1_lMa.36150$x4o.17365@no-spam > > > > > everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody > even > > > > tries > > > > > to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing > > the > > > > > same thing in front of and behind me...
> > > > >
> > > > > ????????????????????????????
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dave > > > > > 86 GS750es > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message > > > > > news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam > > > > > >
> > > > > > It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> > > > > > -Joe Canuck > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:55:34 GMT

that is true Joe... but if somebody in my family were injured by a 3km/h motorcycle... I'd be like "Oh poor baby, let me get you a band-aid!"
heh...

of course i'm not really sayin it's OK to hit pedestrians or otherwise, ...
just that there is SO LITTLE danger caused by what I did ... and it seems like he clearly picked me out of the crowd due to my 2-wheeled nature...

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message news:KTpMa.6182$Ec2.471091@no-spam >
> Well Dave... not everyone gets pulled over. It was *your* turn that day,
> some other day it will be the other *person's* turn while you blow by.
>
> Plenty of drivers on the road do rolling stops... but I suspect there is > some reason the sign says "STOP" rather than "YIELD".
>
> Lets reverse the situation a little here. Suppose for a second someone > in your family gets injured because someone fails to stop at the STOP > sign... you'd be pissed just as you are now.
>
> -- > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> -Joe Canuck >


From: "Dave Walker" (rongant@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 06:28:01 GMT

ya Andre, I kinda agree with the UNluck of the draw theory brought on by Brad...

If a cop let's me go, it's cuz he's got better things to do ...
I can NOT understand what would motivate him to ticket me if it was not based on a quota...

let's weigh everything out ...
even if he's got it set in his mind to pull over a biker,
wouldn't we rather have him pulling over a biker doing 90km/h down bank street on the way to Timmy's or something like that ...

I just think ...
frig it doesn't matter wut I think I guess... it just pisses me off the whole damn situation because of how stupid it is... and how useless of a fine it is ...
:(

-- Dave 86 GS750es
"Andre" <zx7ae1NOSPAM@no-spam> wrote in message news:DzmMa.24568$a51.6081@no-spam > Hey Dave,
> The cop pulled you over because he wanted to and he saw you go through the > stop sign. IT is kinda like when he/she pulls over a speeder on the > Queensway and you are able to blow past him as he is already busy picking on > that other speeder.
>
> I hope you did not have this attitude with the cop or showed it Dave.
Here's > why: I went through a stop sign. I did a rolling stop. The cop pulled me > over and went through the routine of asking if I knew why. I said Yes I do.
> Sorry. The cop ended charging with a Bylaw offense of not obeying a City > sign. Ticket was $30 and no points. Most cops, I know, do an attitude check.
> And are willing to help if you fess up w/o an issue or aleast be pleasant.
> This has help several times even when I was pulled over for 150kms on my > bike a few years back. I walk way w/o a ticket (this is unusaul).
>
> Dave, they have a job to do and you just got caught at that particular time.
>
> --
> Andre > BlkKat 600
> "Dave Walker" <rongant@no-spam> wrote in message > news:1_lMa.36150$x4o.17365@no-spam > > everybody can make the point that ya it's illegal ... but nobody even > tries > > to explain why the cop pulls over me instead of everybody else doing the > > same thing in front of and behind me...
> >
> > ????????????????????????????
> >
> > --
> > Dave > > 86 GS750es > >
> >
> >
> > "Joe Canuck" <Joe_Canuck@no-spam> wrote in message > > news:6qkMa.5229$Ec2.409918@no-spam > > >
> > > It is called a "rolling stop" and is illegal even if done safely.
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Its the bugs that keep it running."
> > > -Joe Canuck > > >
> >
> >
>
>


From: Joe Canuck (Joe_Canuck@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:34:28 -0400

Dave Walker wrote:
> that is true Joe... but if somebody in my family were injured by a 3km/h > motorcycle... I'd be like "Oh poor baby, let me get you a band-aid!"
> heh...

Yes but the STOP sign is there for all vehicles.

The 300 pound lightweight motorcycle as well as the 80,000 pound loaded tractor trailer unit. Stand in front of one of those babies at 3 km/hr and the driver not seeing you... you'll need more than a band-aid! ;-)

-- "Its the bugs that keep it running."
-Joe Canuck

From: Mike (downeym@no-spam)
Subject: Re: Was: TICKETS - Now: Don't Park In Front of Transports
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:24:44 -0400

Mike wrote:
> > A guy I knew back in the 70s was parked, sitting on his Kawasaki waiting > to board a ferry, I think to PEI, and right behind him was a big semi.

He and his girlfriend were sitting on the bike at the time... forgot to mention that.

> > When the ferry was ready to load, they were given a signal but the semi > driver thought it was for him, and not having noticed the bike there,
> proceeded to run them over.
> > They both survived but were in hospital for a very long time.
> > Mike

From: Chris (tempaddrforchris@no-spam)
Subject: Re: TICKETS (or should I say God Damn Tickets)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 01:55:57 GMT

I too moved from Vancouver (3 years ago) and have noticed the same thing. I'm so
freaked out that I'm too scared to stop for a yellow light (stale or otherwise)
if there is someone behind me since I figure I'll get rear ended for sure! I can't count the number of times I have gone through a stale yellow that I could easily have stopped for only to watch in my mirrors as the following car (or sometimes 2, 3 or 4 cars) go blasting through the intersection behind me. Each time I think "good thing I didn't stop and become a hood ornament". I think on average I see multiple people run red (not yellow but solid red) lights every day. On the bright side, I now religiously look both ways before I roll on a green.

Chris
Paul Woodward wrote:

> I agree. I moved here over 5 years ago from Vancouver. Now drivers there > have their own problems at least on a par with those here. Soo don't flame > me for what I am about to say.
> I have never seen a place where people routinely blow more red lights than > this city. In the course of a day I witness at least 10-15 people who > seriously tromp the accelerator or just keep rolling on through. They hit > these intersections with the lights already red. I am not just pointing the > finger at our four wheeled friends many motorcycles too. ...snip...