PDX GENERAL 22 RE ON BELMONT BICYCLISTS
From: "gatt" (gatt@no-spam)
Subject: Re: On Belmont Bicyclists
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:56:21 GMT


"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message
> One can never be sure of course but from the accident reconstruction > diagram published in the Big "O", it appears that bike lanes could > well have made a difference.

What I fear is that the taxpayers will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on defense council who will use this same general argument that, if there had been bike lanes, even though his client was shitface drunk and driving illegally after having a previous conviction the same year for drunk driving, it could have been provided.

You see, it's our fault for not having arbitrary white lines to protect our citizens from alcoholic outlaw drivers who fail to obey the law anyhow. It's a shame it happened, yaddayadda, but really we as a community are partly to blame and all that.

-c



From: jrw@no-spam (Joyce Reynolds-Ward)
Subject: Re: On Belmont Bicyclists
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:19:37 GMT

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 01:24:14 GMT, "gatt" <gatt@no-spam> wrote:

>
>"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message >
>> But still, bicycle lanes are a good idea. And well worth spending >> the 1% or so of highway dollars which we spend on such things.
>
>What do you think about requiring registration fees for commuter-quality >bikes? (Ie, not the little pink one with the white tires that the little >girl is riding out in front of my house, or the BMX bike that the little >dude down the street rides out in the field?)

I think it's ridiculous that Portland doesn't do so. Eugene did when I lived there--required licensing and registration, at least on campus (and it was a good idea, more or less, considering the amount of campus bike theft).

jrw

From: "Da Parrot-chick" (just@no-spam)
Subject: Re: On Belmont Bicyclists
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:45:53 GMT

"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0307101438470.25088-100000@no-spam >
>
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Bob Tiernan wrote:
>
>
> -snips-
>
> > Anyway, the police officer should be suspended > > (or fired and prosecuted) if it's found he > > erred in his action with Ms. William,
>
> A bit severe for merely erring, whouldn't you think?
>
> You know -anyone- who never errs in their job?
>
> Prosecution for mere errors seems a bit much.
> A bit more would seem required.

When someone's mere error causes death, and that someone has the legally-sanctioned power of life and death over their charges, the code of responsibility is higher than someone who spilled gasoline on your trunk lid, don't you think?


From: "Da Parrot-chick" (just@no-spam)
Subject: Re: On Belmont Bicyclists
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:53:20 GMT

"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0307111315410.25411-100000@no-spam >
>
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Da Parrot-chick wrote:
>
> > "Bill Shatzer" <bshatzer@no-spam> wrote in message >
> > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Bob Tiernan wrote:
>
> > > -snips-
>
> > > > Anyway, the police officer should be suspended > > > > (or fired and prosecuted) if it's found he > > > > erred in his action with Ms. William,
>
> > > A bit severe for merely erring, whouldn't you think?
>
> > > You know -anyone- who never errs in their job?
>
> > > Prosecution for mere errors seems a bit much.
> > > A bit more would seem required.
>
> > When someone's mere error causes death, and that someone has the > > legally-sanctioned power of life and death over their charges, the code of > > responsibility is higher than someone who spilled gasoline on your trunk > > lid, don't you think?
>
> But -prosecution_? For errors?
>
> Usually we require at least gross negligence to prosecute folks, not > mere errors in judgment or technique.
>
> Peace and justice
IMO when a death occurs at the hands of police, a terrible error has occurred. It may have been the cop fired when he didn't need to, or it may be that the cop was returning fire. It doesn't matter; someone is dead. If the error was a matter of inadequate training or the wrong person issued a badge, then IMO that is prosecutable. The grand jury cleared Officer McCollister in the death of Kendra James, but that doesn't mean that it was a simple error. She didn't deserve to be killed; she wasn't attacking him.