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Considering the recent thread about cyclists in a.c.o, and the number
of cyclists and motorists not sure what the bicyclists are supposed to
be doing, I figure now is a good time for everybody to go read up on
the rules of the road for bicycles so everybody is on the same page.
http://www.odot.state.or.us/techserv/bikewalk/manual/index.htm
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Thanks for posting this; although I doubt too many bicyclists would be
interested.
"Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
news:57mot-gca.ln1@no-spam
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>
> Considering the recent thread about cyclists in a.c.o, and the number
> of cyclists and motorists not sure what the bicyclists are supposed to
> be doing, I figure now is a good time for everybody to go read up on
> the rules of the road for bicycles so everybody is on the same page.
>
> http://www.odot.state.or.us/techserv/bikewalk/manual/index.htm
>
> - --
> .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
> : :' : proud Debian admin and user
> `. `'`
> `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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The Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:26:13 GMT, Da Parrot-chick <just@no-spam> wrote:
> Thanks for posting this; although I doubt too many bicyclists would be
> interested.
Heh, speak for yourself. I just about have it memorized.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Please stop top posting, English isn't read and written that way and
it makes it harder to follow the flow.
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
The Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:29:39 GMT, sinistersteve <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote:
> Interesting.....seems as if principle number one should be a good enough
> reason to force bicyclist to get a license and carry some sort of liability
> insurance.
Actually s/bicycle/vehicle and you have why I believe motorists should
be required to do the full eyesight, written and driving test every
other year. Cyclists screw up, they get injured or smash thier bike
usually without causing extensive damage to others. Look at the
stats: With, on average, 50 injury accidents and 2 fatalities on
bicycle every year, it would be another money drain on the state to
license cyclists with no real payback in reduced accidents (honestly,
whose going to stand in line with their six year old to get a bicycle
learners permit?).
Again, there's just not enough cyclists to make licensing efficient or
worthwhile. Get your local police department to focus on enforcement,
which they should be doing anyway. You can't plead ignorant in court...
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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English isn't read or written in random order. Please quote
accordingly.
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
The Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:59:42 GMT, Albee Kuminova <"Albee Kuminova"@no-spam> wrote:
> I think it's up to the bike rider to be safer because cars and trucks
> are bigger. So even if he has the law on his side he could still get
> crushed.
Don't think motorists are exempt from playing nicely just because
they're larger. Look at who gets right-of-way under normal
conditions (everything lower on the list has to yield to everything
higher on the list):
1. Trains
2. Emergency vehicles
3. Pedestrians
4. Mass transit
5. Bicycles
6. All other motorists
Now, let's narrow it down to just groups who risk penalties against
their driving record, winning them the potential for higher insurance
rates and possibly losing their privledge to use the road:
2. Emergency vehicles
4. Mass Transit
6. All other motorists
Most motorists don't like paying out huge cash settlements (to the
victim or surviving family), and Oregon courts tend to (rightfully
from the cases I've seen) find the motorist mostly or completely at
fault (because they almost always have right-of-way if they're driving
legally themselves). Don't assume everybody rides their bike because
they can't afford anything else: they might have a better attorney
than you.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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baloo@no-spam (Paul Johnson) writes:
> Don't think motorists are exempt from playing nicely just because
> they're larger. Look at who gets right-of-way under normal
> conditions (everything lower on the list has to yield to everything
> higher on the list):
>
> 1. Trains
> 2. Emergency vehicles
> 3. Pedestrians
> 4. Mass transit
> 5. Bicycles
> 6. All other motorists
That's an interesting work of fiction, but it is nonsense. The real list
goes:
1. Trains
2. Horses
3. Pedestrians
4. Emergency vehicles
5. Farm equipment
6. All other vehicles.
Bicycles do not have the R.O.W. over motorized vehicles, and except for
school busses signalling for traffic to stop, neither does mass transit.
Horses have the R.O.W. over almost everything, including pedestrians.
Trains, of course, have precedence because they are impossible to stop on
short notice.
--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
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The Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:43:44 GMT, Albee Kuminova <"Albee Kuminova"@no-spam> wrote:
> 2. bicycle riders who don't yield their right of way to cars and trucks.
> what attorney is good enough to bring them back from death?
> Bicyclists who take their right of way, and don't yield, can find
> they were DEAD right.
If that's the way you drive, please, move back to California.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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The Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:55:29 GMT, Larry Caldwell <larryc@no-spam> wrote:
> That's an interesting work of fiction, but it is nonsense. The real list
> goes:
>
> 1. Trains
> 2. Horses
> 3. Pedestrians
> 4. Emergency vehicles
> 5. Farm equipment
> 6. All other vehicles.
>
> Bicycles do not have the R.O.W. over motorized vehicles, and except for
Oh, my bad, they only do when operating in a bicycle lane.
Ironically, this is where I usually get cut off. Yall stay left of
the line until you're about to turn, you can't turn from the bike lane
unless you're on a bicycle.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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"Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
news:pduot-9o3.ln1@no-spam
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>
> Please stop top posting, English isn't read and written that way and
> it makes it harder to follow the flow.
> http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
Well, Outlook isn't set up to top-post, and I'm not going to scroll through
an entire post to place a sentence opinion. If Bill Gates wanted all to
top-post then Outlook Express would be setup that way.
> Actually s/bicycle/vehicle and you have why I believe motorists should
> be required to do the full eyesight, written and driving test every
> other year. Cyclists screw up, they get injured or smash thier bike
> usually without causing extensive damage to others. Look at the
> stats: With, on average, 50 injury accidents and 2 fatalities on
> bicycle every year, it would be another money drain on the state to
> license cyclists with no real payback in reduced accidents (honestly,
> whose going to stand in line with their six year old to get a bicycle
> learners permit?).
You wouldn't need to license a 6-year old since the parents would be the
liable party if there was any damage done to something due to their child.
This would probably apply to any non-imancipated minors also. Money made
from licensing could be earmarked for maitence of bike paths and bike lanes
throughout the city so it is a win-win for the city and bicyclist.
Also, most damgae done to a car (even a door ding) can cost several hundred
dollars. It's nice to know that you feel that the car's owner should be
responsible for the actions of a bicyclists actions.
> Again, there's just not enough cyclists to make licensing efficient or
> worthwhile. Get your local police department to focus on enforcement,
> which they should be doing anyway. You can't plead ignorant in court...
If not licensing, then at the very least carry some liability insurance.
Considering the amount of damage done to cars will most likely be under
$1000, it's only fair to have the rider pay if they're at fault.
"Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
news:1mbpt-s68.ln1@no-spam
> Oh, my bad, they only do when operating in a bicycle lane.
> Ironically, this is where I usually get cut off. Yall stay left of
> the line until you're about to turn, you can't turn from the bike lane
> unless you're on a bicycle.
>
I have done this, but only when there are no cyclists are around.
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The Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:43:37 GMT, sinistersteve <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote:
> Also, most damgae done to a car (even a door ding) can cost several hundred
> dollars. It's nice to know that you feel that the car's owner should be
> responsible for the actions of a bicyclists actions.
Most people who don't park in bike lanes or on the downhill (and thus
shopping-cart attracting) parts of parking lots, don't tend to get
door dings.
> If not licensing, then at the very least carry some liability insurance.
Again, so rare the courts hardly ever get involved, so don't count on
getting a solution looking for a problem.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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The Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:19:17 GMT, sinistersteve <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote:
> I have done this, but only when there are no cyclists are around.
Please do not do this. Sometimes you can't see if there's a bike
ahead, or if one is on a side street to join in behind, and by
entering the bicycle lane, you encourage a dangerous traffic pattern
behind you, whether or not you realise you're doing so. You're
causing a traffic wave to wash into the bike lane, violating the
purpose and intent of having a bicycle lane to begin with. The state
driver's manual is online, I recommend you read and learn from it.
Google for oregon driver manual
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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"> Please do not do this. Sometimes you can't see if there's a bike
> ahead, or if one is on a side street to join in behind, and by
> entering the bicycle lane, you encourage a dangerous traffic pattern
> behind you, whether or not you realise you're doing so. You're
> causing a traffic wave to wash into the bike lane, violating the
> purpose and intent of having a bicycle lane to begin with. The state
> driver's manual is online, I recommend you read and learn from it.
> Google for oregon driver manual
FYI: I make sure there are ZERO bicylcist within a 1/4 mile in front of me
or may be behind me (I would notice them as I pass them). As for causing a
pattern of danger, I cannot control what other drivers do, chances are these
drivers would do this action whether I begin, countinue, or end the action
of moving to the right to turn right. The main purpose of moving to the
right to make a right turn is to ease congestion and to keep traffic moving
forward.
"Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> writes:
> signaling a right turning my car. If I'm at a red light, odds are some
> yahoo will try and squeeze into the space between the bike lane and the
> curve to get around me.
That's why, when I'm driving -- especially on the westside, where
this sort of thing is more common than close-in -- I stop close
enough to the bike lane to not be in it, but to prevent anyone
from using it as a turn lane.
Darrell
"Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
news:5p1rt-f5t.ln1@no-spam
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>
>> The line of thinking with a lot of drivers is "That guy is doing it,
> so I must be able to do it as well!" Please, set the example. You
> know how to drive right, and there's no excuse not to.
Sure...I set the example and get plowed into by someone who is doing it
'improperly'. Sorry, not worth the chance of losing time and money with a
wrecked car.
Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message news:<7lopt-6re.ln1@no-spam>...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> The Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:32:58 GMT, Da Parrot-chick <just@no-spam> wrote:
> > Amazing how many drivers don't know or care about this. I've had more than
> > a few close calls because I stay to the left of the bike lane while
> > signaling a right turning my car. If I'm at a red light, odds are some
> > yahoo will try and squeeze into the space between the bike lane and the
> > curve to get around me.
>
> This has got to be a Californian-influenced move. I never saw anybody
> get pulled over for it, even when there was a cop looking right at
> them doing it in the few areas there are bike lanes. Here, I once had
> the satisfying experience of sitting at the head of a bike lane and
> have some moron pull up behind me, with a curb on one side, me in
> front and a cop to the other. Busted. Needs to happen *way* more
> often. Anybody driving Murray or Farmington can tell you this, too.
I've seen a lot of people busted for this on Murray/Jenkins. Usually
by the bike cops.
Another thing to do is when there is no bike lane and you're turning
right, keep the car as far right as possible, otherwise some idiot
biker will try to pass on the right.
Nope, just stating that my time, money, and car are worth a lot more than
worrying about the actions of others. I'll do what is best for me.
"Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
news:rrEOa.34530$C83.2895840@no-spam
>
> "sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:09EOa.10706$ye4.10687@no-spam
> >
> > "Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:5p1rt-f5t.ln1@no-spam
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > >> The line of thinking with a lot of drivers is "That guy is doing it,
> > > so I must be able to do it as well!" Please, set the example. You
> > > know how to drive right, and there's no excuse not to.
> >
> > Sure...I set the example and get plowed into by someone who is doing it
> > 'improperly'. Sorry, not worth the chance of losing time and money with
a
> > wrecked car.
>
> So two wrongs make a right, is that what you're saying?
>
>
sinistersteve@no-spam (sinistersteve) writes:
> Well, Outlook isn't set up to top-post, and I'm not going to scroll through
> an entire post to place a sentence opinion. If Bill Gates wanted all to
> top-post then Outlook Express would be setup that way.
If you bothered to learn how to use your software, you would know that
you can change your default formatting at will. The only reason you
don't is because you are either too arrogant or too stupid to clean up
your own mess.
You also need to learn that you don't quote an entire article just to
post a sentence opinion.
--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
It must irk you silly that you have to allow others to share your road,
then. How can you stand it?
"sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
news:cBIOa.9299$wk6.2323@no-spam
> Nope, just stating that my time, money, and car are worth a lot more than
> worrying about the actions of others. I'll do what is best for me.
>
>
>
> "Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:rrEOa.34530$C83.2895840@no-spam
> >
> > "sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:09EOa.10706$ye4.10687@no-spam
> > >
> > > "Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
> > > news:5p1rt-f5t.ln1@no-spam
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > >> The line of thinking with a lot of drivers is "That guy is doing
it,
> > > > so I must be able to do it as well!" Please, set the example. You
> > > > know how to drive right, and there's no excuse not to.
> > >
> > > Sure...I set the example and get plowed into by someone who is doing
it
> > > 'improperly'. Sorry, not worth the chance of losing time and money
with
> a
> > > wrecked car.
> >
> > So two wrongs make a right, is that what you're saying?
> >
> >
>
>
>
exactly
"Larry Caldwell" <larryc@no-spam> wrote in message
news:MPG.1974f928fae2d6f49897e2@no-spam
> sinistersteve@no-spam (sinistersteve) writes:
>
> > You also need to learn that you don't quote an entire article just to
> post a sentence opinion.
Some days it's horrible....anything West of Hwy. 217 drives me insane.
"Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
news:xNIOa.35104$C83.2927573@no-spam
> It must irk you silly that you have to allow others to share your road,
> then. How can you stand it?
>
That's why I stay away from there.
"Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
news:KKLOa.35453$C83.2954481@no-spam
> Obviously.
>
> "sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:K7LOa.12685$N7.1962@no-spam
> > Some days it's horrible....anything West of Hwy. 217 drives me insane.
> >
> > "Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:xNIOa.35104$C83.2927573@no-spam
> > > It must irk you silly that you have to allow others to share your
road,
> > > then. How can you stand it?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
If only.
"sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
news:XeMOa.14377$ye4.13854@no-spam
> That's why I stay away from there.
>
> "Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:KKLOa.35453$C83.2954481@no-spam
> > Obviously.
> >
> > "sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
> > news:K7LOa.12685$N7.1962@no-spam
> > > Some days it's horrible....anything West of Hwy. 217 drives me insane.
> > >
> > > "Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
> > > news:xNIOa.35104$C83.2927573@no-spam
> > > > It must irk you silly that you have to allow others to share your
> road,
> > > > then. How can you stand it?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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The 8 Jul 2003 11:58:19 -0700, cardboard <cardboard@no-spam> wrote:
> I've seen a lot of people busted for this on Murray/Jenkins. Usually
> by the bike cops.
Good. That one's another trouble spot. I didn't initially think of
it because it's not an intersection I have to go through anymore.
Walker Road all the way down is a trouble spot with morons using the
bicycle lane to pass people waiting to turn left...
> Another thing to do is when there is no bike lane and you're turning
> right, keep the car as far right as possible, otherwise some idiot
> biker will try to pass on the right.
Oh, I tend to stop fairly close to the right lane line if I'm in the
lane adjacent ot the left of the bike lane to prevent moron motorists
from driving down the bike lane. And hey, if they try it anyway, it's
thier dime...
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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"Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
news:6fmst-m6e.ln1@no-spam
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> OK, again, stop encouraging unsafe driving by participating in it
> yourself. If you can't understand that, for the safety of everyone
> and yourself, please, surrender your license.
Considering my squeaky clean driving record, I'm one of the ones you want to
keep on the road.
"sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
news:QhZOa.19948$H17.5854@no-spam
>
> "Paul Johnson" <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:6fmst-m6e.ln1@no-spam
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > OK, again, stop encouraging unsafe driving by participating in it
> > yourself. If you can't understand that, for the safety of everyone
> > and yourself, please, surrender your license.
>
> Considering my squeaky clean driving record, I'm one of the ones you want
to
> keep on the road.
And that's you saying so? Even if your record is clean (which I DOUBT), I'd
say you were just lucky and your luck was about to run out.
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The Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:51:07 GMT, sinistersteve <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote:
> Doubt if you must, but I'm definitely one of the safer drivers who pays
> attention to what is going on around.
Except, apparently, what lanes are open for your vehicle.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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The Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:05:17 -0700, Charles Lingard <caloy@no-spam> wrote:
> (a) In making the approach for a right turn; and
And ORS 811.435 prohibits this practice, but 811.440 allows the turn itself as
described in your section (b). If you're motorized, stay out of the
bike lane unless you have to cross it.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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So the Seattle to Portland ride or something similar happened this weekend.
We passed maybe a hundred riders Saturday night coming back from St. Helens
with the boat, and I have just one question:
If riders are so concerned about being seen, and if they're so
self-righteous and diligent about safety and cyclists' rights, then why did
only about half of them have any lights at all riding down Highway 30 at 10
o'clock at night?
I mean, what the hell? It's one thing to see an SUV with its flashers on in
the right lane doing 15-20 mph because a gaggle of cyclists without lights
has grouped together for safety.
It's another to see two riders, only one with a light, and the un-lit one on
the outside riding on the fog line practically in the outside lane of the
highway. We saw not one or two, but DOZENS of riders going in the dark
without lights or even reflectors. Some had scrawny headlights so they
could avoid roadkill or something, others had blinking lights in back that
were so dim you couldn't see them until long after you'd seen the rider
himself. Like the batteries had gone out or something.
Quite a few had good lights front and back and were plainly visible and well
in the shoulder of the road, but I would they made up only half of the
cyclists at best.
If bicyclists want respect and attention from motorists, they better act
like it. Riding at night without lights on the shoulder of a narrow highway
is absolutely inexcusable and stupid. These folks are supposed to be the
cream of the crop. Dozens of them didn't even have adequate reflectors.
The county could have raked in a hefty sum of money if a single cop had come
down the road and cited each rider who had insufficient lighting, but I
didn't see a single rider pulled over except for one who was changing a
tire--he was plainly visible from a long distance because he had his rear
light going.
-c
Charles Lingard <caloy@no-spam> writes:
> ORS 811.355 requires right turns to be made "...as close as practicable
> to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway:"
Keep reading:
811.435 Operation of motor vehicle on bicycle trail; exemptions;
penalty.
(1) A person commits the offense of operation of a
motor vehicle on a bicycle trail if the person operates a motor
vehicle upon a bicycle lane or a bicycle path.
(2) Exemptions to this section are provided under ORS 811.440.
[...]
811.440 When motor vehicles may operate on bicycle lane. This
section provides exemptions from the prohibitions under ORS
811.435 and 814.210 against operating motor vehicles on bicycle
lanes and paths. The following vehicles are not subject to ORS
811.435 and 814.210 under the circumstances described:
[...]
(2) A person may operate a motor vehicle upon a bicycle lane
when:
(a) Making a turn;
(b) Entering or leaving an alley, private road or driveway; or
(c) Required in the course of official duty.
Note that, as is spelled out in the Driver's Manual (p 74
2001-2003 edition), this does not mean you can use the lane as a
turn lane:
"Do not drive on a bicycle lane. You may only *cross* a bicycle
lane, such as when turning or when entering or leaving an alley,
private road or driveway." (Emphasis in original.)
Darrell
Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message news:<k5s9u-s8r.ln1@no-spam>...
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> The Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:05:17 -0700, Charles Lingard <caloy@no-spam> wrote:
> > (a) In making the approach for a right turn; and
>
> And ORS 811.435 prohibits this practice, but 811.440 allows the turn itself as
> described in your section (b). If you're motorized, stay out of the
> bike lane unless you have to cross it.
Not a problem for me but in return, will bicyclist stop passing motorist on
the right when there isn't a bike lane. That too is against the law.
dave@no-spam (Dave Goldman) wrote in message news:<dave-1407031047540001@no-spam>...
> In article <885ec7ed.0307140842.4e3a2f68@no-spam>,
> boomer_the_cat@no-spam (lein) wrote:
>
> > Not a problem for me but in return, will bicyclist stop passing motorist on
> > the right when there isn't a bike lane. That too is against the law.
>
> Does that mean that if traffic is at a standstill, then in the absence of
> a bike lane cyclists must also stop moving (even if they are riding next
> to the curb or parking lane, and their path is unobstructed by any cars?).
According to this source, it's illegal:
http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1058010995327120.xml?oregonian?yedcsn
"Bicyclists may not pass vehicles on the right, except to go
around a left-turning vehicle or when the bicycle is in a bike lane."
If you're on you bike, you muct wait, just like the guy in the
motorcycle.
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The 14 Jul 2003 09:42:11 -0700, lein <boomer_the_cat@no-spam> wrote:
> Not a problem for me but in return, will bicyclist stop passing motorist on
> the right when there isn't a bike lane. That too is against the law.
That's not something I do unless I've got a shoulder or another lane.
Too easy to get pinched off or cardoored.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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The Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:47:54 -0700, Dave Goldman <dave@no-spam> wrote:
> Does that mean that if traffic is at a standstill, then in the absence of
> a bike lane cyclists must also stop moving (even if they are riding next
> to the curb or parking lane, and their path is unobstructed by any cars?).
Unless theres a shoulder or the parking strip is totally clear, yes.
And if there's no bicycle lane, you should be taking the right lane or
the shoulder, not pinned up next to the curb. That's just asking
someone to make an unsafe pass next to you.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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The Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:55:09 GMT, gatt <gatt@no-spam> wrote:
> So the Seattle to Portland ride or something similar happened this weekend.
> We passed maybe a hundred riders Saturday night coming back from St. Helens
> with the boat, and I have just one question:
STP doesn't go down US-30, AFAIK.
> It's another to see two riders, only one with a light, and the un-lit one on
> the outside riding on the fog line practically in the outside lane of the
> highway. We saw not one or two, but DOZENS of riders going in the dark
> without lights or even reflectors. Some had scrawny headlights so they
> could avoid roadkill or something, others had blinking lights in back that
> were so dim you couldn't see them until long after you'd seen the rider
> himself. Like the batteries had gone out or something.
In Oregon, white headlights visible 1000 feet ahead are required at
night or when rainy or foggy, though the courts will also accept the
common green LED headlights as well if they're visible ahead that far
forward. Red reflector required, visible 500 feet back, you may also
have a red light.
> The county could have raked in a hefty sum of money if a single cop had come
> down the road and cited each rider who had insufficient lighting, but I
> didn't see a single rider pulled over except for one who was changing a
> tire--he was plainly visible from a long distance because he had his rear
> light going.
So go email the sheriff's office in those counties asking where they
were when they had such easy pickins. I agree, cite the bastards who
can't drive, no matter what they drive.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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"Papa Smurf" <papasmurf@no-spam> wrote in message
news:vh7b85abano734@no-spam
>
> "Da Parrot-chick" <just@no-spam> wrote in message
> news:xNIOa.35104$C83.2927573@no-spam
> > It must irk you silly that you have to allow others to share your road,
> > then. How can you stand it?
> >
> > "sinistersteve" <sinistersteve@no-spam> wrote in message
>
> Just a question but why does a cyclist (presumably one who does not own a
> car) feel they have any right to the road that they don't pay for? This is
> assuming that none of our other forms of taxes go to road maintenance.
Oh, I dunno--could it be because state and federal law gives them the right?
Just guessing.
I guess that excuse wouldn't work so well with entitlement programs. But
that's a whole different subject.
"Dale" <drosen80@no-spam> wrote in message
news:BB396D5E.83E8%drosen80@no-spam
> You're on a slippery slope here. Are you suggesting that people who pay
more
> in taxes should be allowed to use roads more than people who pay little
tax?
> We've got to get past this "I pay for it, therefore I can use it. You
don't
> pay, so you can't use it" mentality. We're becoming a nation of extremely
> petty people.
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The Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:28:04 -0700, Papa Smurf <papasmurf@no-spam> wrote:
> Just a question but why does a cyclist (presumably one who does not own a
> car) feel they have any right to the road that they don't pay for? This is
> assuming that none of our other forms of taxes go to road maintenance.
Probably because state and federal law give them the right, and gas
tax and car fees barely cover a third of highway maintenance costs.
I'm subsidizing your road damage, pay your fair share, then we'll talk.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam> wrote in message news:<jvheu-m7n.ln1@no-spam>...
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> The Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:28:04 -0700, Papa Smurf <papasmurf@no-spam> wrote:
> > Just a question but why does a cyclist (presumably one who does not own a
> > car) feel they have any right to the road that they don't pay for? This is
> > assuming that none of our other forms of taxes go to road maintenance.
>
> Probably because state and federal law give them the right, and gas
> tax and car fees barely cover a third of highway maintenance costs.
> I'm subsidizing your road damage, pay your fair share, then we'll talk.
My attitude, as well.
A lot of car owners are really ignorant about how much
their mode of transportation has been and is subsidized
by everyone else.
David Loftus
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The 16 Jul 2003 07:50:46 -0700, David J. Loftus <dloft59@no-spam> wrote:
> My attitude, as well.
>
> A lot of car owners are really ignorant about how much
> their mode of transportation has been and is subsidized
> by everyone else.
Nor do they seem to realize the disproportionate amount of spending
that goes towards autos. Out of city owned bicycle parking on the
streets in downtown Portland, there are two bicycle lids and about 40
bicycle racks, all by Civic Stadium or the Rose Quarter, two more
racks and one covered bike rack at the Oregon Zoo and not really any
in handy spots along the waterfront, or near pioneer square or by
major office buildings or even at the county courthouse...do they
honestly expect everybody to go fight for stadium parking and walk to
everywhere else in downtown or something?
And in this climate, the only actual reasonable accomodation for
bicycles are the lids at Civic Stadium and the covered rack at the
Zoo. Either that or you can park in the rain and be repacking
bearings every weekend for months on end.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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The Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:47:54 -0700, Dave Goldman <dave@no-spam> wrote:
> Does that mean that if traffic is at a standstill, then in the absence of
> a bike lane cyclists must also stop moving (even if they are riding next
> to the curb or parking lane, and their path is unobstructed by any cars?).
If there is no bicycle lane, parking strip or shoulder, yes, cyclists
must fall into traffic and operate like any other driver on the road.
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@no-spam>
: :' : proud Debian admin and user
`. `'`
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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