PHL MEDIA 55 RE IT DIDN T TAKE SANTORUM LONG
From: "Not a chance spanky"@no-spam
Subject: Re: It didn't take Santorum long...
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:09:34 -0400


Mischa Gelman wrote:

> Or like your claims that pro-life Democrats don't exist.

I never said they didn't exist, I said anyone who votes for them is a fool because whatever they claim to be the party and leaders won't allow them to act any other way but they way they tell them.

You proved that with your own posts describing the party's efforts to crush the pro-life voice within.

Paul Galvanek - Ver. 4.0










From: "D.F. Manno" (dommanno@no-spam)
Subject: Re: It didn't take Santorum long...
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:06:42 -0400

In article <look-33542C.03035013072003@no-spam>,
The Expatriate <look@no-spam> wrote:

> "D.F. Manno" <dommanno@no-spam> wrote:
> > > "i'm from north of here" <Me@no-spam> wrote:
> > > > > So whats the > > > difference? The cell count? The differentiation of the cells?
> > > > The inability of the fetus to live independent of the mother.
> > Neither can a newborn.

So I suppose that every child born to a mother who died during childbirth died immediately afterward?

A newborn can be cared for by other people. A fetus is not capable of living outside the womb.

You're not too bright, you know.

> > > I also can't understand the concept of charging , say, a drunk driver > > > with the death of a fetus, while not applying the same to the exact same > > > act of abortion. I'd at least like consistency.
> > > > So would I. I'd like to see laws like the one you cite repealed.
> > I'm sure you would. Well, you just keep spouting your indignation. The > more that people like you talk, the more that people of conscience who > were otherwise leaning toward a pro-abortion stance will realize that > position's hypocrisy and insidious evil.
> > Only a cold-hearted monster would believe that Laci Peterson's killer > deserves to face only one murder charge.

Or someobdy without an axe to grind. The killer only killed one living person--Laci Peterson. To say otherwise is phony moral outrage.

Apart from the anti-abortion fanatics, nobody considers a fetus to be a living person.

Example: For all intents and purposes--the law, government, society, even the Catholic Church--a person's age is calculated from the day s/he was born, not the day s/he was conceived. Nobody counts the nine months spent in utero.

Example: Ask a pregnant woman with children how many children she has. She'll say something like "Two with another one on the way." She doesn't say "Three."

Example: You can't take a dependency exemption or claim the child tax credit on your tax return for a fetus.

Example: Governments don't issue death certificates and families do not hold funeral services for fetuses after a miscarriage or spontaneous abortion (or an induced one, for that matter).

The idea that life begins at conception is a political concept, used by the anti-abortion zealots to support their campaign to outlaw abortion. It has no validity in biology or in everyday life. evil.
-- D.F. Manno dommanno@no-spam "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin)


From: The Expatriate (look@no-spam)
Subject: Re: It didn't take Santorum long...
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 02:25:15 -0400

In article <dommanno-44D462.04064113072003@no-spam>,
"D.F. Manno" <dommanno@no-spam> wrote:

> In article <look-33542C.03035013072003@no-spam>,
> The Expatriate <look@no-spam> wrote:
> > > "D.F. Manno" <dommanno@no-spam> wrote:
> > > > > "i'm from north of here" <Me@no-spam> wrote:
> > > > > > > So whats the > > > > difference? The cell count? The differentiation of the cells?
> > > > > > The inability of the fetus to live independent of the mother.
> > > > Neither can a newborn.
> > So I suppose that every child born to a mother who died during > childbirth died immediately afterward?

And every fetus born prematurely has died?

> A newborn can be cared for by other people. A fetus is not capable of > living outside the womb.

_Nothing_ is capable of living outside the womb without immediate help, dumbass.
> You're not too bright, you know.

Heh. No retort necessary.

> > > > I also can't understand the concept of charging , say, a drunk driver > > > > with the death of a fetus, while not applying the same to the exact > > > > same act of abortion. I'd at least like consistency.
> > > > > > So would I. I'd like to see laws like the one you cite repealed.
> > > > I'm sure you would. Well, you just keep spouting your indignation. The > > more that people like you talk, the more that people of conscience who > > were otherwise leaning toward a pro-abortion stance will realize that > > position's hypocrisy and insidious evil.
> > > > Only a cold-hearted monster would believe that Laci Peterson's killer > > deserves to face only one murder charge.
> > Or someobdy without an axe to grind. The killer only killed one living > person--Laci Peterson. To say otherwise is phony moral outrage.

No, it's not phony at all. People of conscience feel moral outrage at the murder of a pregnant woman and recognize it as two lives lost. That's why 26 states have laws that recognize fetal homicide, despite the protestations of the feminist and abortionist lobbies. You can't attribute that solely to those nasty old pro-lifers you hate so much.

> Apart from the anti-abortion fanatics, nobody considers a fetus to be > a living person.

Wrong.

> The idea that life begins at conception is a political concept, used > by the anti-abortion zealots to support their campaign to outlaw > abortion. It has no validity in biology or in everyday life. > evil.

The Laci Peterson murder case is shooting holes in that argument. Virtually everyone except the pro-abortionists consider it a double homicide, and the fact that people are in fact doing so has them double-guessing the pro-abortionist mantra you spouted above. That's why you guys right now are squealing like a litter of cornered pigs.

Perhaps you could spend less time blaming pro-lifers for your philosophical dilemmas, and come up with better excuses to justify your position. The ones you're using now aren't working well with anyone.


From: Paul (annoy_someone_else@no-spam)
Subject: Re: It didn't take Santorum long...
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:55:43 -0400

i'm from north of here wrote:

>>The inability of the fetus to live independent of the mother.
> > > Eventually, medical science will create an artificial womb. Then a fetus > will be able to live independtly of its mother. What will your standard then > be? I think you need to do a lot better.

Here's my prediction:

Long before an artificial womb is created science will perfect a safe reliable male contraceptive along the lines of the birth control pill.

When that happens, and it's a lot close than many people realize with some suggesting within the next ten years, and women no long have sole control over reproduction, birth rates are going to plummet to unimaginable levels, the impact on society will be enormous and there will be a major shift in attitudes that will lead to outlawing of abortion and strict regulation if not bans on birth control...

And it'll be those who currently call themselves "pro-choice" will be leading the charge.

Paul Galvanek - Ver. 4.0